Zoe By My Side- Our Journey with Cushings

[addy]

She had the test for pancreatitis at the end of May. Everything was normal, no evidence, she had the tests thru Univ. Texas and her ultrasound. You think I should retest her because of the eating six hamburger buns?

I think she has Cushings but what I question is how high her numbers were and perhaps if she was retested (ACTH) once her colitis is stable for a month (if we can ever get that) and everything else is stable, could it be the numbers would not be so high? Does it matter for loading her? This is what I question, I guess.

Since she ate the buns, she won't jump on the bed. She had jumped on the bed the night of the incident and jumped off, landing hard and turned and looked at her back leg. I can't find any evidence of injury, perhaps she pulled a muscle. If it does not improve we will have to get that checked too. She is not walking funny or favoring the leg, does not yelp if I gently stretch it out. She runs around the house and will jump on the sofa, just not the bed. She was flying on and off the bed with no problem until this happened on Sunday.

I sent by email twice to Dr. Oliver.

Addy

[marie adams]

Hi Addy,
Welcome to the Best Cushing Site you will find. I was new in February--been there and done it all!!! Worry, Quilt, Watching POOP, and even got excited when the pee was yellow and not clear.

Maddie is finally on her first true maintenance with Lysodren and we do the 30 day test tomorrow. Today on our morning walk she was out front and walked further than she has in months. I think things have finally turned around for her, but I still WORRY!!! My husband says no matter how long she has, she has had the best life we could possible give her--freedom and love! Remember the good stuff and just make it as good as we can for the future time we have together.

You are doing all the right stuff for Zoe and like everyone has said take care of yourself because you have to be there for our pups. It is all a journey.

I also want to add: I started feeding raw when this started because I read to take a cushings dog off of grains; we have friends who have horses who have gotten cushings--they have to have a special diet also. I just cut back the raw and started a dry that is also grain free--not sure if this is why she has more energy, but she seems to not feel like she hasn't had enough to eat. I also give milk thistle, l-glutamine, fish oil, vit c, c & c to help her. The raw is Northwest Natures and the new dry is from Nutra--California Naturals, has an Aussie on the front--gee wonder why I bought that--haha!! (Maddie is an Aussie). She has not problems with eating all of this--still has good poop. We all can tell you what works for our dogs and give opinions to help, but in the end it is what works best for you and Zoe!!

Welcome again and keep up the good work!!!

[Harley PoMMom]

She had the test for pancreatitis at the end of May. Everything was normal, no evidence, she had the tests thru Univ. Texas and her ultrasound. You think I should retest her because of the eating six hamburger buns?

If her tests for pancreatitis came back normal then I would not have her retested because of her eating 6 hamburger buns although bloat would concern me...maybe members with more experience/knowledge with this will share their opinions.


I think she has Cushings but what I question is how high her numbers were and perhaps if she was retested (ACTH) once her colitis is stable for a month (if we can ever get that) and everything else is stable, could it be the numbers would not be so high? Does it matter for loading her? This is what I question, I guess.

IMO it is always good to get a "starting point" when one begins to load their pup on Lysodren, a very recent ACTH stim test, I believe, is important.

Since she ate the buns, she won't jump on the bed. She had jumped on the bed the night of the incident and jumped off, landing hard and turned and looked at her back leg. I can't find any evidence of injury, perhaps she pulled a muscle. If it does not improve we will have to get that checked too. She is not walking funny or favoring the leg, does not yelp if I gently stretch it out. She runs around the house and will jump on the sofa, just not the bed. She was flying on and off the bed with no problem until this happened on Sunday.

I sent by email twice to Dr. Oliver.

Addy

Keeping you and sweet Zoe in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[apollo6]

Dear Andy,
Slow down, take a deep breath. Maybe it will take a day or so for Zoe to recover from the hamburger buns. It is just bread. Apollo ate the back of my husband's leather dress shoes once, last summer he ate part of a brand new pair of shoes I bought. What I am trying to say Apollo is still here despite the cushing. Apollo sometimes can hardly get up the stairs I have for him on the bed and couch, sometimes he can hardly step over a brick, then all of a sudden he look like his old self. This disease is so nasty. As far as loading, I'd have to go back on your thread to read what is going on.
Some of the medications Zoe is getting may have steroids in them, if so they can cause cushing systems (Apollo was on Prednisone, dexam, rima,(not sure of all the spelling) Secondly before you jump at anything , check with your vet, about all the other issues Zoe has.
These are the tests I had for Apollo;
Sept 16, 2009-blood panel
January 2010-ultrasound-adominal (disc)
May 25, 2010-blood panel
May 28, 2010- ACTH Stim Test
Blood pressure
Urinalysis-Antech
Urine Culture MIC
Ultra sound, Focal Abdomen (only gall balder- sludge )
Was an ultrasound done? It can show if both adrenal glands are swollen or if one is larger then the other. I was lucky, Apollo's urine was normal, but cushing pups can have urinary infections. Have you distinguished as to what kind Zoe has? Atypical, Phd, or Adrendal ? What I am saying in Sept of last year is when things started not looking right, the hair loss on the tail was over 1-2 years. It wasn't until July of this year that I started treatment.

[addy]

just heard back from Dr. Oliver. he says lysodren even with Zoe's chronic diahrrea.

stool is normal today, even alittle constipated. No metronidazole today, I will cut back to every other day again. Seems like she is burping alot and tummy rumbles. i have not been giving her full rations yet. Her tummy does that when she does not get full rations of her raw food. Wonder if I should try Pepcid? If I over ate the human equivilant of what she ate for her tummy size, my tummy would not feel too good for a week or two!

I worried about bloat but I don't think that is it. She has not vomited and wants to eat and drink. OMG, I have always said if my Zoe stops eating, I have to be seriously worried. she seldom throws up and always wants to eat. Must be the Cushings though I did read Lhasa's are Hoovers.

I am going to do a consultation with IMS and go over options. I think I want to do one more ACTH test before loading starts next month.

I think I have had too much time to think so then I start doubting things. It has all taken too long. Maybe it is a blessing in disguise.

Thanks for input all

Addy

[addy]

I also want to add: I started feeding raw when this started because I read to take a cushings dog off of grains; we have friends who have horses who have gotten cushings--they have to have a special diet also. I just cut back the raw and started a dry that is also grain free--not sure if this is why she has more energy, but she seems to not feel like she hasn't had enough to eat. I also give milk thistle, l-glutamine, fish oil, vit c, c & c to help her. The raw is Northwest Natures and the new dry is from Nutra--California Naturals, has an Aussie on the front--gee wonder why I bought that--haha!! (Maddie is an Aussie). She has not problems with eating all of this--still has good poop. We all can tell you what works for our dogs and give opinions to help, but in the end it is what works best for you and Zoe!!

Maddie's Mom- thanks for the welcome! I find this info interesting because Zoe seemd hungrier on the raw from the very first day but she can't eat kibble, or at least she couldn't last year. I tried to switch her to California natural lamb and rice could only get to 1/4 cup. Did you switch foods after she had been on lysodren for awhile? I worried about the raw becasue of what it said on her food package and because others told me they took there Cush pups off raw once diagnosed. I read also try to stay away from grain but there is so much food info out there ! Hard to tell what will work or not so I know what you mean.

I will read Maddie's thread. Thanks again.

Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Andy,
I give pepcid when Apollo has an upset tummy, I use less then a quarter of a tablet, thrown in with his food. He has always had a big appetite. Again check with your vet first.

[addy]

Really?

what is pedica and where do I buy it? How do I know how much to give?

The only test Zoe did not have is LDDS and that was because I can't leave her that long at the vets, too much stress. All tests point to Cushings, IMS said no tumor so not adrenal.

I know Sonja, I am going too fast again. My mind is racing. I need to slow down and give Zoe some time and me some time. Just felt a little pressure yesterday when I called in for her meds refill. Thanks for giving me your time line, that little bit of info just helped me so very much! See, I need to know tidbits like that I'm serious, I really do. It helps put things in perspective.

She can't jump on the bed so I start to freak that the hamburger buns made her Cushings worse

Addy

[zoesmom]

Addy - in Apolla/Sonja's thread, you asked about the 'unexpected' side effects that my Zoe got from the tylan. I don't know if any of these would be relevant to your Zoe, but this is what happened.

I started Zoe on tylan for SIBO on a Friday (in summer 2008). On Saturday, her drinking dropped by half or more. She'd had polydipsia (and polyuria) her whole life and even after going on trilostane - at age 9 - those things did not totally resolve. One good formula for figuring normal water consumption is 1 c. of water per each 10 lbs of body wt. Zoe (who usually weighed around 80 lbs) drank upwards of 15 c. of water/day - pre-cush diagnosis. Even after starting on trilo, she still drank 12 or more cups of water/day. And those amounts would always go up when she'd get a urinary infection. So virtually overnight, her drinking/peeing dropped to a normal range and stayed down. Her average after that was 4 - 8 c./day. That was great, to my mind......but then over the coming weeks and months, I began to notice other positives as well.

First off, her lifelong battle with uti's came to a screeching halt. I think she only had two more after that and one was very minor (bacteria count not all that high). This was a dog who sometimes got uti's every 6 - 8 weeks. Not a year went by that she didn't have several bouts.

Zoe went to the bridge this last March. But in her last year and a half (on the tylan), her thyroid levels and her cortisol levels finally stabilized. She'd previously taken thyroxine in doses ranging from .2 to .8 mg. She'd also taken ever-increasing doses of trilo, and yet sometimes her cortisol would rise to around 9 or 10 - once to 13+. I don't think we ever got an ACTH reading below 5, except once (much to my and our vet's amazement, she dropped to a pre of .7 pre and a post of 1-something. Don't remember when that happened but I think it was during the same summer we put her on tylan.) Would have to look.

So those were the 'unexpected' benefits that I saw. I think it probably had to do with how well she was absorbing her medicines - before and after the tylan. The reason we tested for SIBO was house-clearing gas (she also had the intestinal rumblings called borygmus-sp.??) and more often than not had soft, mushy poop - not quite diarrhea but she had bouts of that more than I care to recall, too. So as hoped, with the tylan, her poop firmed up and the bad gas improved. As far as her appetite, she was always the opposite of the typical cush pup. Pre-diagnosis and when her cortisol #'s would creep up, she wasn't much of an eater. The lower her cortisol, the better her appetite. She was definitely not a dog who'd 'read the book!' Sue

[addy]

zoe's mom

Thank you for sharing Zoe's story and I hope it was not too painful for you. Tylan has antiinflamatory properties as does metronidazole. I wonder if once we get all that inflammation down, some cortisol drops, meds get absorbed better, etc. their bodies just respond better when they don't have to cope with their insides inflamed as well as gettting rid of that bacteria they harbor.

Do you know of any literature about inflammation and cortisol?

I just can't shake the thought that my zoe's inflamation when we did her Cushings tests contributed to her "significant numbers" and that if I retested her after a period of "non inflamation" if I could achieve it, it would possibly bring down those numbers to moderate.

I am not saying it would get rid of the Cushings diagnosis, as I believe it is real, maybe just her numbers would not be significant but maybe moderate. Not sure how that would affect loading her, if it changes the doseage or the post load ACTH comparison.

Does it seem odd that a dog with "significant" Cushings, does not have the frequent infections, blood work is not anything like alot of the other dogs, symptoms are not as strong as other dogs., etc.

I am a practical person and something does not add up for me.
Maybe I am too hung up on Dr.Oliver's wording of signifcant

Thank you again so very much for sharing with me.
Addy