Flynn 11 y/o Foxie Cross - Right adrenalectomy- Good Bye Flynny We will miss you

[Budsters Mom]

Hi Trish,
Poor Flynny, he just can't escape those vets! I hope his poor little tummy has settled and his poops are good now. No one likes to spend the day at the doctor. What a great idea taking his food and Blankie. Fingers, toes and paws crossed for great test results. Xxxxx

[Trish]

Yes well, its never good when they start the chat with "Well we have good news and bad news"

So I asked for the bad news first. His UPC has shot up and is the highest ever at 3.88. STINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He said it could be one of three things:

1. An anomaly, as it has been up and down before.
2. I said his tummy was a bit off last couple days and the last time the UPC went high, his tummy was bad also. So he thought that could be the reason also (backed up by another two mucousy poops on his walk just now after our vet visit)
3. Renal deterioration

He said Flynn is a mystery to him, he has not seen a dog with proteinuria like his that has been there for at least 18 mths, maybe longer without deterioration in symptoms/renal function but that is how long we have been monitoring it. His bloods tests for renal function are great, His blood creatinine is low end normal , albumin high end normal and he would be expecting to see worsening of those numbers specifically if Flynn's kidneys were packing up. So we are hoping this is an anomaly or due to the tummy troubles. The lab staff had also written something along those lines about how unexpected the proteinuria is with his other tests.

He likened the glomeruli in the kidneys as acting like a sieve, which is where he thinks Flynn's renal problems are. The glomeruli are not meant to let protein through, but if they are damaged in the filtering area the protein molecules can escape through the "sieve" holes into the urine. They continue to deteriorate until they get to the stage where the protein is flowing through freely so much that the protein (albumin) levels in the blood start dropping hence the close monitoring of those levels. The kidneys can lose up to 75% or thereabouts function sometimes before it starts affecting blood results. So at this stage Flynn has not reached that level YAY!! We would only truly know what his exact renal problem is by doing a biopsy of the kidneys and treatment would be pretty much the same so we are not going there.

So we have to stop this happening so are doubling his ace inhibitor, Benzapril to 5mg daily. He is still at low end of that drug dose as he can go up to 14mg as per his weight. So we are going to go with the recommendations of the article and retest UPC in a week or two and hopefully we will see improvement.

So to the good news.... well apart from the normal blood renal tests, his LFTS had dropped a little but still ALP in 1400 range. He is emailing me the actual numbers.

Oh and BP had its up's and downs. 168 first thing but he said that the pattern for Flynn is first one is usually a bit higher. 2nd one after lunch 148 but the third one was 230 but that one he has discarded as outlier as he said it was really busy in the surgery at that particular time and there was a dog next to Flynn coming out of anaesthesia that was crying and whining and Flynn was upset. So he is going with the 148 as the best actual reading when he was less stressed.

So plan:
Repeat UPC in 1-2 weeks. I will make sure his tummy is fine and he is good before I do it again.
Continue to increase his Ace Inhibitor until we get good control (and we will!)
Get his tummy symptoms back on track

Damnit I just remembered, I forgot to ask him about fish oil too.
Complicating our plan is he is off to London next week for 3 weeks, but he is having the result sent to him and we will take it from there, I told him not to be ridiculous and go and enjoy his holiday and they will also email me UPC so I can check progress.

Oh oh oh I did not forget you Addy!! I specifically asked him about the effects of an ace in a dog with normal BP. I tell you what... he launched into this most excellent description of the pathway of ace inhibitors - even drawing me diagrams on the white board!! But the outcome is that they can most definitely be used in a dog with normal BP, he said there will be an effect on BP but the sympathetic nervous system will regulate it so it does not affect the dog but of course careful monitoring would be needed! I reckon your question added about 15mins onto our consultation Addy But you are worth it my friend

Hmmm I think that is it, sorry about the novel everyone... it can be your bedtime story as your all probably snoozing about now! It is an epic post but I did want to pass on all that renal stuff. I did have a laugh with the vet nurse, she said that in all the time she has been working there, only one other dog has a special folder in his inbox to store all the emails... so isn't Flynn a privileged pup!! I so appreciate their care xxxxx

[spdd]

Hi Trish... isn't it wonderful to have a "mystery dog."

If we could just pinpoint directly what is going on, both our pups and our lives would have far less worry and chaos not to mention a healthier bank account.

I certainly hope you can get his tummy settled. Man I wish they could talk to us.

Wishing you the best with everything and I'm sure Flynn will be feeling better very soon.

[addy]

We were all hangin out on your thread waiting for you to get back and then I think we ended up going to bed


First, I think I would tend to throw out the UPC as well. I remember our surgeon telling me they can throw protein from anywhere and then stop so something could have been bothering our Flynn and tummy troubles can do it, look at Zoe. I think increasing the BP meds is a smart move and your vet seems to be really on top of things. I wish I could clone him and have him here.

Thank you dear friend for asking my question BIG HUGS because I sure do trust his answer over any answer I would get from my group

I'm sorry that it was a stressful vet visit for you both. I have a good feeling that Flynn will respond well to his BP meds. Positive thinking only here I love to picture you and Flynn walking on the beach and I know there are many more walks to take!!!

[molly muffin]

You really do end up having the most interesting conversations with your vet. Got to love that.

So, unless the UPC was consistently up, it could be a flux right, like Addy said, several things Could cause it to go up and I'd be interesting in knowing what the UPC is on a day when he hasn't had any tummy troubles, just as a comparison.

Renal issues are one of the new areas that I am learning about on this forum.

How did the hair cut turn out?

Didn't watch Hunger Games, we got sidetracked till around 10pm and I wasn't up for a 2.5 hour movie at that point. Watched LockOut, sci-fi, sort of cheesy, they had some awesome crazy prison characters though. Maybe will try again tonight.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Trish]

Hi everyone!
Well here I am up at 7am on a Sunday morning It was me awake early, not Flynny having any problems although when I did let him out he had another mucousy poop. So I am going to definitely chalk this UPC blip to his bowel problems maybe wishful thinking but I do not like the alternatives so I am not going there! I also wanted to check the increase in his Benzapril last night had not made him feel funky, but so far so good. He ran out the house so that has to be good

My other thought in my early morning wonderings is what could have caused his IBD to flare when it had been good for at least a couple of months. Like stress.... I had stopped his Tramadol so maybe he is in more pain from arthritis and that has contributed to stress levels and upsetting his bowel. He is still running on his walks or if he thinks a cat has entered our property but at other times is a bit slower, not limping though. So it could due to pain, our pups can be so stoic can't they but he is going back on the Tramadol. I talked about that with the vet yesterday, he thought the Tramadol had not affected his blood results like LFTs so will be safe. Because he has been good, he has been getting the odd treat he probably shouldn't so they are out the window too. Plus we had stopped probiotic, but he is back on that now. He had put on half a kilo in the last month so the extra weight probably not helping either. So getting all these things back on track is my strategy to get his tummy sorted and hopefully fix his mucousy poops. Plus a good reminder for me not to fiddle about with things too much!!!

I asked the vet if he sees many doggie UPC results higher than Flynn's, he said not very often. But the difference is that his bloods have been so good throughout, not even showing any evidence of creatinine trending upwards.... or downwards in the case of albumin. Most other dogs in this situation will be in full blown renal failure which Flynn obviously isn't which also makes him think it is an anomaly. He went further with the "sieve" analogy, describing it as the disease process worsens it is like an old sieve that rusts out at the bottom and so the kidneys can just stop working probably once it gives and if that happens they are lucky to get 3 months. But he does not think that is happening with Flynn boy yet. Phew! He really has been pretty good apart from these last couple of days of icky poops.

He has been itchy though and I have seen a flea or two on him lately, vet said he has seen a few with problems and puts it down to our mild winter. I do flea him with frontline and wash all his bedding and blankets weekly, so going to be super vigilant with that too. But again itchiness could be causing him more stress.

Right, I am going to start fish oil. Salmon, if I can find it today at the store. I need to google and find out dosage, I know it is on here somewhere so will search the posts as well.

I see all the chat about shoes , I have not heard of Coach before... can't have made it all the way down here or else they have never been on my radar!! I need new walking shoes too, might have to put them on the list for today! Flynn recognises the walking shoes as soon as I take them out the closet and knows a walk is coming and starts yodelling in excitement The hair appointment when fine Sharlene, got to keep up with covering the silvers in the 50s you know

Thanks for your positive thinking girls, that is what I am going to do too!!! xxxxx

[Harley PoMMom]

Right, I am going to start fish oil. Salmon, if I can find it today at the store. I need to google and find out dosage, I know it is on here somewhere so will search the posts as well.

My boy, Bear, is on wild salmon oil which was recommended by his cardiologist. The dosage that's suggested for his weight of 13.5 pounds is DHA 200mg and EPA 300mg.

From what I am told it is important to buy the oil that is from wild salmon and not from farm raised salmon because the wild salmon's primary diet is krill.

I purchase Bear's wild salmon oil from Monica Segal, here's a link to her website: http://www.monicasegal.com/Wild_Salmon_Oil.html

I, too, think that Flynn's recent UPC results are a fluke and am sure his next UPC check will be better.

Love and hugs, Lori

[Trish]

Thanks Lori

Hmmmm now you have got me wondering, I have just bought some Red Krill oil for ME to take as a supplement Going to look at the bottle for the dosage - be good if I could give him that!!

I have emailed the vet about dosage for Flynn, he does have vitamins and minerals in his bone and joint supplement and I have worked out he is getting approx 250mg omega 3 and 550mg omega 6 a day from that. He weighs 30 pound.

[addy]

Okay but start slow with the fish oil and work your way up to the require dose ..... mucus stools+ fish oil+ baby doses to start

[Simba's Mom]

Poor Flynn, hate the tummy trouble for our pups, sending hugs...could he have a bug or something? wondering if they have checked it out....