Dad of Lulu - sweet Lulu has crossed The Bridge

[LabDad]

Greetings,

Lulu has posted her picture, it says it failed, however I see it in my User CP settings.

Anyway, Lulu is a 10 1/2 year old yellow Labrador. She has enjoyed a great life in the country, on 20 acres in farming country close to Port Huron, Michigan. She came to us with a red color, (still have it saved) and she was about 4 to 6 months old, early Nov. 2000. She has been a smart, head strong and lovable lady.

She was diagnosed with Cushing's Disease in Nov.-Dec. 2010. She had tests and them was put on Lysodren for about a week. She became weak and did get a bit sick during the treatment. It was stopped about a week into the treatment, after testing showed she was possibly going to go into Addison's Disease. So for about 4 months now she has been off any medicine's for the disease. She has been doing fairly well, and we want to take her in for a recheck. And it is costly, about $200, and we are waiting for the money to come in to do this. We aren't rich. Her dad (me) programs computers and designs websites. But it has been rough for us, as it has been for many. We do plan on a test, and we also have been thinking of a second opinion on her treatment, and that I will explain in future posts. We don't doubt that she has had some Cushing's Disease. But our present Vet's office had a turnover, with veterinarians, ours retired in November, and then the Vet that took over in December, relocated to Wisconsin, leaving us with yet a third vet. We became a bit worrisome that perhaps a more experienced veterinarian, with knowledge of endocrine disorders might be warranted. And I believe I may have found a good alternative.

Anyway, another problem Lulu has had is she has suddenly become nervous when we have night time thunderstorms. I have had to give her a tranquilizer supplied by a veterinarian, which works in about 40 minutes, but then she is a bit of a zombie for the next 12 hours. Warren Eckstein , who has a radio show for pets, and a guest on national tv shows, sent me a bottle of Calm Down to try. I did, and it seemed to have an immediate affect, though it didn't last. Warren also suggested downloading thunderstorm sounds, and also smoke alarm sounds, which Lulu doesn't take a liking too either.

Lulu, is gifted in a way. I think she senses our fears and she often mimics us. In fact she is my blackberry picking companion, who started picking berries some 9 years ago when she first saw me pick them. She of course eats them her self. LOL.

Anyway, let me stop here. I have given Lulu's intro, and I will be on here more to learn more about Cushing's Disease. At the present Lulu seems to have a mild case, where as last December, she had some aggressive symptoms, including a very strong desire to eat, almost a demand. That is less prevalent at the moment.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome!

So glad you decided to join our Cushing's family but I am so sorry that circumstances prevail that you need to be here. We will help you and Lulu in any way we can.

The best way for us to help you help Lulu is to tell us more information about Lulu and her Cushing's treatment. You see, the more information we know the more meaningful our feedback will be, ok?

So I guess the 20 questions will start with me!

What symptoms led you or your vet to test Lulu for Cushing's in the first place? What test/s were done on Lulu to confirm her Cushing diagnosis? If an ACTH test was done, could you post the results here. What loading dose of Lysodren was Lulu on? Is Lulu taking any other herbs/supplements/medicines? Has Lulu's electrolytes been checked? The electrolytes are usually found on a Chemistry blood panel and include her Potassium, Sodium, Chloride, Calcium, and Phosphorus. Was there any thing marked abnormal on her Chemistry/CBC blood panel? If so, could you post these abnormalities with the normal references ranges.

As far as the thunderstorm phobia, my boy, Harley, used to be the same way until he started taking melatonin every day. He was taking 3mg of melatonin twice a day and this seemed to cure him of being scared of thunderstorms. The melatonin has to be the regular kind not the fast-reacting or time-released variety but please seek the advice of your vet before adding any supplement/herb to her diet.

Please ask all the questions you want and we will try our very best to answer them. Looking forward to hearing more about sweet Lulu.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Dad and welcome to you and Lulu!

She is a beauty! Your story of finding her with that collar on reminded me of how our Ruby was found - running down a gravel road with a length of rope tied to her skrawny neck. That was the day her luck changed forever and she was loved every minute of every day for the rest of her life. I think she, too, was gifted in a way - or maybe it's just that she was so grateful.

Lori has covered our 20 Questions so I will simply say that I am glad you found us and look forward to learning more as time passes.

You and Lulu are no longer alone - we will be with you every step of the way. Don't hesitate to ask any questions you may have and we will do our best to help you understand.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[littleone1]

Corky and I also want to welcome you and Lulu.

You have found a wonderful group of very caring, supportive, and knowledgeable people.

Corky is also afraid of thunderstorms. I use to give him Acepromazine, but I no longer give him that because of his cushings. I also give him Melatonin, and I use T-Touches on him which really help to calm him down. This was recommended to me by one our members.

Terri

[addy]

Welcome !

Glad you found us. My Zoe is also afraid of thunderstorms. Originally, I took her to a holistic vet who practiced Chinese Medicine. She put Zoe on "Shen Calmer". It did help her. Currently, she is on melatonin for her Cushings and it has the added benefit of helping her fear of thunderstorms. She is much better about them.

We are here for you. I am so glad Lulu has you for a dad

Hugs,
Addy

[LabDad]

Thanks Lori,

Will have more info, and thanks on melatonin. And the drug I have used acepromazine Terri. I cut the pill in half, usually. But I wasn't told you couldn't use it with Cushings. I try to use sparingly. Last night I tried something different and it worked last night, and I had a bright eyed lab this morning. More on this later, and the lab results from the tests Lulu has had to come.

[LabDad]

Will pull out Lulu’s chart. First, on the Melatonin, that interests us. My wife has some peppermint flavored sublingual melatonin, 2.5 mg tablets. I suppose we could use these pills?

Now on the diagnosis and treatment for Lulu.

Lulu went to see the vet in November for her yearly shots, and we went to see Dr. Vnycke, our vet of 20 plus years. But he retired. We then were referred to Dr. Sarao, one of the two doctors that had taken over. I mentioned that Lulu was a big drinker of water. That was a symptom of Cushing’s disease. And perhaps the things Lulu was doing, such as a ravenous appetite and panting at night. We often on warmer days, would have to increase the ceiling fan, or put a fan blowing at her in the window sill, and of course use more air conditioning at times, to keep her comfortable at night in the summer. This had been a bit of a problem for a couple of years, along with the times when she just couldn’t get enough water to drink.

There was a lab test that was done which __________??? She also had one of her liver enzymes elevated. I think this is a side effect of the disease. It escapes me now which one, and if I find the info, will post. The vet got the records from and it was elevated. So this led the doctor to believe Lulu might have Cushing’s Disease.


Test results: Jan 4, 2011

Dex Suppression (3 Samples) – 8 hour test

Cortisol Pre 6.0 micro grams/dl
Cortisol 2 1.0 micro grams/dl
Cortisol 3 3.8 micro grams/dl

Interpretation of ACTH Stimulation Test:

If the 8 hour post dex. Cortisol level is greater than 1.4 micro grams/dl than a differential test can be used to differentitate. Our vet prescribed two 500 mg Lysodren tablets in the morning and two 500 mg Lysodren tablets in the evening. We gave Lulu this dosage for 8 days, having started on Jan 6 or Jan 7.

Now on Jan 14 Lulu had 4 hour ACTH Stimulation Test. I believe the results for the post should be in the 1- 5 mg/dl range.

Lulu’s results:
Pre 0.7 mg/dl
Post 1.0 mg/dl

This meant that Lulu should be taken off the Lysodren, which she was. The doctor was concerned that she the disease may have gone into Addison’s Disease.

On Feb. 17, 2011 Lulu was retested with the 4 hour ACTH Stimulation Test. I believe I had Lulu back before the 4 hours were up. When I took Lulu in, I found out Dr. Sarao had left and went to one of the new clinic owner’s other clinics in Wisconsin. Lulu was seen at their Port Huron clinic.

So another vet.

Pre 2.6 mg/dl
Post 4.4 mg/dl

The vet said Lulu appeared to have normal results. So no further medication necessary. She said Lulu should have the test repeated in about 4 months.

Lulu at the time in February was having trouble with her back legs, which I hear can be a problem both with Cushing’s and Addison’s disease which fully confused us. Lulu was also shedding a lot at the time. We would brush her often with much fur coming off.

Now in May 2011, Lulu is not shedding as much, her legs are stronger. She still drinks plenty, though her drinking is not as pronounced. This is a condition that seems to change and there are times she is drinking more.

Lulu’s weight is probably just under 90 lbs. It was 85-88 lbs last time weighed. She has trimmed a bit from February, though she could probably lose about 3 or 4 pounds. She isn’t as pear shaped as she was in January and February.

She continues to have a fair amount of energy, especially for a 10 ½ year old large dog. I have been able to walk her 1 to 2 miles at times, though I try not to overdo. The warmer weather is a bit harder on labs anyway.

Well that is all for now. I do want to try her on melatonin to see if this helps her with the thunderstorms. You see I have noticed it is not just the thunder lately, but if she starts to see lightening in the distant she senses a coming storm and will start to get anxious.

And the trick that worked a couple nights ago, because I didn’t want to have to give her apromazine two nights in a row. I brought up her old cage I used when she was a pup. It is still roomy enough for her and laid a bed in there and put her in the bedroom next to ours with a night light. One of our cats kept her company, and though she didn’t sleep much the rest of the evening, she lied in the cage fairly calm and she wasn’t in a stupor in the morning but alert.


Below are things I said on another forum that I belong to on dieting.


(Jan. 3, 2011) “I'm taking Lulu in to the vet this morning at 8 am (now 7am) for a Cushing's Disease test. It's a low dose (Dexamethasone) Suprression Test, I believe it is. they take I believe 3 blood samples in an 8 hour period, so we will pick her up after 4 pm.”

(Jan. 13, 2011 ) ” Lulu is doing well also, she goes in for her two hour ACTH test tomorrow morning and then I assume her dosage will drop from 4 tablets a day to something like 4 or so a week. It has to be monitored to keep the dosage right, but so far so good.”

(Jan. 17, 2011) ” Lulu is 10 and she is doing well now that she off the 'induction load' of Lysodren. She will start a much lower maintenance dose when the Vet Dr. tells me to start. She has what we think is kennel cough, which in hindsight we should have got the nasal spray for her before she started treatment.”

(Jan. 20, 2011) “Lulu is hanging in there. Her kennel cough has subsided and her appetite is down, but she is eating. We are not giving any medicine for her now, but will wait for a retest Feb. 16. I take her on walks but I don't try to push her, and she still brings toys to us. But she is a bit more playful.

The thing to watch now is to see if the Cushing's becomes Addison's. I hope not. There is controversy on which is better. I think I would prefer Cushings over Addison's. The treatment is different too, with Addison it is primarily steroids such as prednisone. I would imagine if prednisone is used that the minimum needed would be used.”

(Jan. 21, 2011) “Update on Lulu,

She had a burst of energy this morning, demanding play time from me, and grabbing her bone. She went out to get the paper with me and took a stuffed pig outside. I brought her in through the basement as I was getting ready to talk to a client on the phone. She went toward the first floor of the house, the independent dog that she is. But she wanted to grab her stuffed pig, (she got in Wisconsin in 2003) and met me a the basement door. It sure feels good to have her feeling better. She isn't out of the woods yet, but this was a step forward.”

(Jan. 24, 2011) “Lulu has been improving but it's not a straight line, but rather one with some dips. She has had a bit of a problem with steps, so we encourage her to stay on the main floor during the day and when I'm in the basement she can go outside and go down the hill to the basement door.”

(Jan. 26, 2011) “Lulu has done quite well last night and this morning. She seems almost normal. But she has a ways to go. The disease Cushing's and what it could become Addison's, which is the opposite. She seems to be not having much Addison's if she has any, and that could be temporary.”

(Jan. 27, 2011) “Lulu's legs are still a bit weak, but improving. If we can keep her weight down then that will help. We also are looking into the lactose supplements, plus increasing her glucosamine. She and I both take the human pills, and I have the percentages she needs, but they are a bit different then hers, but I don't think that critical, just have to get the right dose. The important thing is to get the Cushing's Disease under control and keep her trim.”

(Jan. 31, 2011) “I ordered one bottle of Glucosamine, 150 chewables, will be here Wed, though because of snow I am thinking it will be on Thur. Then I can switch Lulu off the human (mine) and on her own, which has the more correct ratios of the three important ingredients. (also Chondroitin and MSM)”

Also, note Lulu is bionic, she had both back legs operated on for ACL surgery in 2005-2006 and made a startling and very successful recovery.

(Feb. 7, 2011) “Lulu is doing okay. She got hot last night and we put the ceiling fan on higher. That is a symptom of Cushing's, not sure that did it, but she occasionally does get a bit restless once in a while. She has been fine this morning. I still want to contact the Vet this week to confirm up her text next week.”

[lulusmom]

Hi Lulu's Dad and welcome to the forum.

Was February 17 the last acth stimulation test that was done? I ask because there was a marked increase in Lulu's cortisol levels from Jan 14 to Feb 17 which means the adrenals are regenerating. At that time your vet said that levels were normal and no further medication is needed, which is confusing. The goal of treatment is to maintain post stimulated cortisol levels within the therapeutic range of 1 - 5 ug/dl and Lulu was in the high end of that range in February. Unless your vet put her on a maintenance dose of Lysodren at that time or shortly thereafter, I suspect that her cortisol levels are markedly higher now and it will be a matter of time before you start to see Lulu's symptoms return. Did your vet tell you any of this? If not, I think you may be right about seeing a specialist.

I'll be waiting to hear more about your Lulu.

Glynda (Lulu's Mom)

[LabDad]

Lulu's mom,

Yes, I have been confused by all this. I am trying to see if a vet clinic a bit closer to us, has a veterinarian that has experience with Endrocrine disorders, especially Cushings Disease. This office is a satellite office, Wilson's Veterinary Clinic, whose main office Lulu has been to, for her ACL surgery. They have lots of vets and have been reasonably priced. We have a different veterinarian for our cats, but he is farther away, and very busy. There is a lady veterinarian at the Yale, Michigan Wilson clinic that I hear is very good.

I am hoping that we can get some good care for Lulu. I don't know the cost, but we were very pleased with the quality of care with Wilson's Main Clinic and the price was very reasonable, even cheaper than our Port Huron vet had been.

The turnover at the Port Huron office was unfortunate. The doctor that had taken our vet's place, seemed to have some knowledge of Cushing's and she was in touch with an endocrinologist. She is an East Indian doctor, but was having a problem culturally in our area, which doesn't speak well of our area. She didn't feel at home here, and moved to Wisconsin to one of the owners other clinics. I do here from her on Facebook and have told her that Lulu has been doing fairly well.

The last couple of days I have seen Lulu a bit more sleepy during the day, but it has been a rainy week and weekend. She is still pretty playful for a 10 year old lab. I just want her to have a good chance at a healthy retirement age.

I do programming and website design and people can see some of the work I do as I have added them to my signature. The Soldier website is one I started thinking I might do a book on but presently decided to just put up on the Internet. I haven't had a chance to work on it lately, since I have to work on paying sites to support myself, and that is my challenge.

I have a source of funding for some of Lulu's expenses, otherwise I would probably not be able to afford the tests and pills. But I do want to take Lulu to someone that can reassure me that they will put in the effort to help her. She's a great dog. Wilsons' Veterinary Clinics told me that a consultation would be about $30, so that doesn't sound to bad a price.

[LabDad]

We see our second opinion vet Tuesday night. He is Dr. Wilson of Wilson Veterinary Clinic, the owner and the doctor that did Lulu's ACL very successful surgery on Lulu's back legs in 2005. I don't think he is an endrocrine expert, but he has a staff of some 15 to 30 (approx) doctors in at least 4 locations, one of which is 10 miles from us. I hear all good (well one sourpuss didn't like them - such is life).

Also, I have heard from you all about melatonin. We have some subliminal my wife has, would that be okay to give Lulu?