Apollo fought with grace and dignity to the end, My little angel warrior

[jrepac]

this is the diet he has been on since September 2009. All are to help Apollo with his pancreas, and support his immune system,and stomach, and the hair loss. For a while the hair loss did stop and grew some back on his tail, and legs, but stopped . The numbers on his Neutrophils and Lymphocytes did improve. But I know this is not a cure , just a support. this is the website showing the ingredients in the other supplements.
http://www.standardprocess.com/displ...log.spi?ID=336
ingredients in Cushex-all herbs
Dandelion
Burdock (Arctium lappa)
Astragalus (Astragalus membranaceous)
Arsenicum
Hepar sulph
Merc sol
Sulphur
everything else is Chinese herbs. I did show and give copy to IMS and he said not to change anything at this time?
All was done under supervision of my holistic Vet/acupuncture, who finally said get the tests and treatment.

Hi, seems like Apollo is getting well taken care of...the diet is an interesting one...was it recommended by your holistic vet? Re: the Cushex drops, they are meant to help w/the symptoms of Cushings, I'm not sure they do very much to get at the root of it. However, they do contain a variety of herbs that appear to be relevant to the problems experienced, based on what I have read on these homeopathic herbs. I used Cushex for about 6 months, nearly 2yrs ago(?) prior to a firm diagnosis of Cushings..hard to say if they helped or not. I stopped in part because they were expensive (tho' one site sold 3 bottles for the price of 2) and because the dandelion in them actually will make your pup urinate more, not less. The dandelion is meant as a tonic for the liver which is well documented, but it does make 'em pee! I had started treating with anipryl, which seemed to bring some more rapid improvement in symptoms, and then later on added a variety of different supplements, leaving out the Cushex drops, since my Aussie has both cortisol and several other hormones elevated.

Regarding the pricing of trilo, I am sure your vet wants to sell you brand name Vetoryl at full price. If you can get your trilo compounded, you will be better off. Same story w/Anipryl...costs about $80 a month for the brand name to treat a 20lb dog, but generic (selegiline) is only $25/30 a month. You really have to ask around/shop around to get the best price.

and, wonder how your vet has been "treating w/trilo" for years??? it has not been around all that long...only recently approved for use in the US... they are all "experts" until something goes wrong...

good luck!

Jeff

[Harley PoMMom]

But I want all my bases covered before I start this drug.
I insisted on starting only at 10mg. (Apollo weight is normally between 9.8 and 10.2-now 10.6)
Can I ask, everyone says I should Prednisone on hand for emergency. Why , for what and how much, if I can even get.

Hi Sonja,

I think starting Apollo out at 10mg is a great idea. The reason for the prednisone, and this quote comes from Dechra's Product Insert:

PRECAUTIONS:
Hypoadrenocorticism can develop at any dose of VETORYL Capsules.

http://www.dechra-us.com/files/dechr...ts/Vetoryl.pdf

You see, prednisone is a synthetic corticosteroid drug that one can give to their pup when they think that their pup's cortisol has dropped too low...it mimics the cortisol in the pups body. So if one would see symptoms of low cortisol in their pup they would give prednisone and then drive their pup to their vet or Emergency Clinic ASAP.

The standard rescue dose of pred is 0.25mg/kg. To find her weight in kg, divide the lbs by 2.2...then multiply that result (her weight in kg) by 0.25 and you will have the amount for her weight. So Apollo weighs 10.6 lbs / 2.2 = 4.81kg * 0.25mg = 1.20mg of prednisone.

We are definitely here for you and will be here to support you.

Hope this helps.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[mypuppy]

Hi Sonja,
When Princess was first diagnosed, first thing I researched as treatment was natural remedies and those cushex drops popped up immediately when I googled it, but I too learned they are not effective on cushings. As for the milk thistle, I have never used it and in fact asked several times if I should give just for liver support but no one really responded so I never started Princess on it. perhaps you may run it by your IMS considering Apollo has have issues with pancreatitis. In the meantime please try to take a deep breath with all this, and as Lori said we will be here for you and little Apollo every step of the way. PS: would love to see more pics of your little boy--he's sooo cute! Xo Jeanette and licks from the Princess

[frijole]

Re the milk thistle.. don't know that there is any documented proof of its effectiveness... I can only tell you that I treated Haley with lysodren for 4 yrs. I did not add milk thistle to the mix until 2 yrs after the dx. It was only after I added it that her liver enzymes went from over 2000 down to 700. I was impressed so I stuck with it. And I take it myself.

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Sonja,
I was just reviewing a bit of your and Apollo's thread and this just caught my eye.

DIET
A.M-low fat cottage cheese, Greek nonfat yogurt, egg white
, low sodium turkey slice, supplements

NOON- long WHEAT grain rice, cooked chicken, teaspoon canola oil,
Lite salt-potassium chloride
ADDED PURRED BROCOLLI,CARROT

Broccoli has been know to give dogs bad intestinal gas

AFTER 4P.M-cooked potatoes with skin, chicken
Nutri Deni minichew or Greenie
Halo-Live N Little skin & Coat treat with Salmon
Slice apple, sometimes blue berries, honey melon

Make sure the potatoes don't have any eye's or the beginnings of a root. The Potato(e) plant itself is not good for dogs.

Have alternated with organic baby food-summer veg, turkey with veg, spinach.
Stopped whip cream (on weekends only)
GREENIE/NUTRI DENTAL CHEW-MINI-TWICE DAILY

Make sure the baby food or any human food you give Apollo does not have any onions in the ingredients. Onions can be toxic to a dog. I don't think whipped cream is good for dogs either, something with the inability to digest the lactose?

[apollo6]

thanks I meant spinach , you are right about broccoli, I know about onions, also grapes are bad , and chocolate is poison.
Apollo does have more gas in this last year. I have to watch in public that people don't look at me thinking I let one(some humor)
I know about the whip cream, will whine him off it. cooked potatoes, doesn't digest the skin, was told to take skin off.
Is Anipryl another treatment for Cushing(thought I read it has been around for a while)
Still worried about not checking for the hormone levels.
I know this sounds silly, but when I take Apollo to the dachshund meet, he will hump any dachshund he meets whether girl or boy. Is he not telling me something(just joking). He is neutered. Dirty old man.

Is there a difference between compounded and regular Vetoryl.


From what I have read , taking these medications is tough on our little guys(size doesn't matter)

As Jake said " they are all "experts" until something goes wrong..."

[apollo6]

Thank you. You are right about the peeing. For a little guy, it seems like a pool of it .

Bother's me I had to insist on smaller dose. Apollo has always had a sensitve stomach. Was always throwing up yellow vial? Hasn't done so in months. Was losing some weight last year now has gained weight.

[addy]

I just finished reading your entire thread. Here you are going through all of this but yet took the time to answer my post and be supportive.
Thank you so very much. My IMS (learned that today) refused to give me prednisone too. Must be a power thing.

I know you and Apollo will be okay. I don't have any experience yet with all of this but I am a good listener

Addy

[apollo6]

I talked to my IMS(INTERNAL MEDICINE SPECIALIST?) about having Prednisone on hand. I think I just have to trust him. This was his reply:
Prednisone- in past used as an Antidote for Lysdern( I have read many of you have used with Triolstane reaction), if sick enough, not want me to give, would want to see Apollo. He would give an inject able steroid, Dexamethasone Injection which has a more rapid response, then IV fluid administration as needed, then do ACHT STIM.
If given Prednisone prior would invalidate an ACHT STIM test.

would appreciate input on this.

Said Apollo's kidneys are okay now? will monitor pancreas and liver enzymes.
Also received call from Dr. Tim Allen, Dechra products, Vetoryl 1-913-327-0015 also 1-913-748-4836
Recommends 10mg. for 10lbs and under better to start on low end of dosage range may increase up to 30 mg. latter. Said would gladly talk to my vet. Many vets are not aware there is a 10mg. dosage.

[jrepac]

A few quick hits here...

Yes, broccoli is a gas generator for sure; my Aussie loves cooked broccoli, but watch out a few hours later!

Yes, Anipryl is used for cognitive dysfunction and for Cushings, tho' it's effectiveness for Cushings cases may be limited at best (it is very hit or miss).

"compounding" is basically done by a pharmacy that makes capsules to the specific dosage you require (i.e., they are making them up custom for you) ..check out Diamondback pharmacy online...

Milk thistle has a lot written about it in regards to liver function. Vets sell something called Marin, which is the active ingredient from Milk Thistle (silymarin)...likewise they sell Denosyl, which is equivalent to the SAM-e that is also sold to us hu-manz..