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Thread: Joined Today (Orlando has passed)

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: Joined Today

    Orlando's tests came back today indicative of a pituitary tumor which is the cause of the Cushings. I did expect this. In a conversation with my vet yesterday, she said that I had a choice of Vetoryl or herbals to start. We ruled out Lysodren because, as she said, "it wiped out your other dog" which was completely true. She was the junior vet in 2000 when Frankie was dxed and treated and remembered his case. While I have not spoken to her in depth yet, it seemed that she felt I should use either Vetoryl or an herbal. When I did some research, it seemed as if the use of both simultaneously could administer too much of the medication. I wondered if you had this same opinion. I also found a few herbal products online and wondered if anyone had used them. They were Adrenal Harmony Gold, Primalix CortiQuel, and a few separately mentioned herbs like si miao san and ginkgo.
    Last edited by lalosmom; 02-28-2015 at 04:36 PM. Reason: additional question and information

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    16,147

    Default Re: Joined Today

    We haven't seem any real lowering of cortisol progress with the things like Adrenal Gold, cushex etc.
    Some people do say that symptoms improve for awhile, but eventually go onto regular medication.

    If the cortisol is high, and cushing confirmed then getting on a good dose of trilostane that would keep the cortisol at just under 9.0ug post (if no symtoms) would be ideal. We've had members who have been successful with long term use of medication and longevity.

    I was a definite wait and see if symptoms start, but before cushings symptoms started, my dog developed hypertension and protein loss kidney disease, all of which cause some blindness and she is now on trilostane.

    If you do Not start medication to lower the cortisol, then I would still advocate that you get blood pressure checked regularly to make sure everything is still good. My dog went from no problem blood pressure fine to 3 months later loss of significant sight and BP over 200. So, just something to be aware of. It's not a problem for all dogs, some never develop that issue, but now I know more about it, it's worth keeping track of.
    Sharlene and the late great diva - Molly muffin (always missed and never forgotten)

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: Joined Today

    Thanks so much for the response. I do not have a problem with using the medication vs the herbals. My experience has been that in severe cases of illness, medication is required rather than alternative therapies, although those may have some use in some cases.

    I did not realize that serious side effects could occur that quickly; my vet did not want to start Cushings treatment before it was necessary, so we have been discussing this for some time...which makes me think even more that I should get Orlando on the medication.

    Several years ago I had a cat who went blind after a spike in blood pressure not related to Cushings, even while he was being treated for his initial condition.....it was very sad to have to watch that happen and I know that Orlando would be miserable.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    16,147

    Default Re: Joined Today

    It did take a long time before the problem arose. Her cortisol had been high but we hadn't been able to confirm why it was, her LDDS kept coming back negative for cushings and she didn't have the symptoms, then it seemed to be very sudden, the high BP and the resulting problems.

    It might Never become a problem for Orlando, just it is now something that I advocate keeping an eye on so that if it is going to be a problem, you catch it early.
    Sharlene and the late great diva - Molly muffin (always missed and never forgotten)

  5. #15
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    Feb 2015
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
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    72

    Default Re: Joined Today

    Your story certainly brings up another case with another of my dogs. Orlando's big sister was a rescued cavalier mix. As she aged, about 9, she had some irregular liver numbers, a definite low thyroid which we treated, but after my experiences with my first Cushing's dog, I also felt that she had that. Just as you describe, the LDDS kept coming back negative despite the fact that I felt that I observed other symptoms. So....it was never treated and about a month before I had to let her go, she was suddenly mostly blind. Your answer seems to give me another piece of the Mikki story.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: Joined Today

    As I am about to purchase Vetoryl for Orlando, I wanted to clarify two things which I have seen discussed on the board, but want to make sure I am not misinterpreting.

    What is the usual dose of Vetoryl, mgs to lbs of weight? Or is it not always calculated that way?

    Have board members reported problems with using meds from a compounding pharmacy because the dose is not as certain or standard as it would be from a non-compounding source?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    231

    Default Re: Joined Today

    Quote Originally Posted by lalosmom View Post
    The only "non-Cushings" symptom which is still troubling us is his disinterest in food.
    I also had a Cushing's dog with low appetite (this was not a new thing, she had always been a dainty eater). Pansy had a pituitary macroadenoma (a larger pituitary tumor), confirmed by brain imaging. The vets at UC Davis think her appetite was further suppressed due to pressure being put in her brain by the macro. One important thing to know about macros is that medical treatment can cause them to grow.

    I sincerely hope that is not the case for Orlando, and I don't mean to frighten you away from medical treatment. Macros are unusual (the number I've read is that only 10-20% of canine pdh cases are due to macros) so the odds are in his favor.
    Last edited by pansywags; 03-06-2015 at 12:48 PM. Reason: trying to be less scary!
    “Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand.”
    ― Margery Williams, The Velveteen Rabbit

    Pansy Lou Who, the Velveteen Boxer. Always loved, never forgotten. RIP 2014

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: Joined Today

    Thank you so much for posting this information. I feel that I need to know as much as possible, and would rather be informed than in the dark, as I was with my first Cushing's dog....and possibly the second who continually tested negative, but.......

    Orlando's appetite has returned, but it is not like it was before...meaning he seems to want less, and eats a little more irregularly.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    York, PA.
    Posts
    10,826

    Default Re: Joined Today

    Quote Originally Posted by lalosmom View Post
    What is the usual dose of Vetoryl, mgs to lbs of weight? Or is it not always calculated that way?
    The starting dose of Vetoryl is based on the dog's weight and Dechra now advises a starting dose of 1 mg per pound of a dog's weight. Dechra's newly published literature can be found here: http://www.vetsonline.com/news/produ...r-vetoryl.html

    Also if using brand-name Vetoryl and Dechra does not manufacture the capsule/s needed it is recommended to round down the dosage instead of up, as an example...if a dog weighs 37 lbs, 30 mg would be an adequate starting dose instead of 40 mg.

    Quote Originally Posted by lalosmom View Post
    Have board members reported problems with using meds from a compounding pharmacy because the dose is not as certain or standard as it would be from a non-compounding source?
    Many of our members have been very satisfied using compounded products, and sometimes there is no alternative if a dog needs a custom dose that is not available in Vetoryl. However, a recent research study has determined that some compounded products are not as consistent or effective as brandname Vetoryl. I would discuss this with your vet, but either way (using compounded or brand-name) you will probably find cheaper prices for the drug on the internet.

    Hugs, Lori

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: Joined Today

    Thanks so much for the response. You are completely correct that the internet prices are much better and thanks to this site I feel as if I have a few options.

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