Milo - Atypical Cushing, looking for help to understand

[daushieowner]

Hello all,
New to Cushings and the forum. My Milio has just been diagnosed with "atypical cushings" whatever that is. Searching for info and advice.


Mod note...This message was copied from a visitor message to help this new member introduce herself and her cush pup.

Hi all,
Here is some basic info. Milo is almost 11yr old male dachshund. 26 pounds and was neutered at 6months. His only medical condition until now has been IBD.. He is on venison/potato diet for that. Has not had a flare in 5 years since he was put on that food. He also had a hemilaminectomy 5 years ago and has had a full recovery thankfully. His supplements are Glycoflex(glucosamine for arthritis) /cranberry extract and Vit C for UTI prevention. I took him in for his annual visit and questioned teh PU/PD that he has been experiencing the last few months. They did a Ua and metabolic panel and he did have a UTI. treated that and third culture remains negative. His urine is very diute with a Sp G equivalent to water and his Alk P is elevated slightly. Thyroid was WNL. My regular vet did a Dex Sup test which came back negative and was out of suggestions, I went to U of Penn for an eval by one of the internal med specialtists. His US was that of a cushings dog with an enlarged lived and adrenals were on the high side of normal . (he does not have the pot belly or alopecia or skin issues that cushings typically presents) . Bile acid was normal and his Alk P has increased a bit. They sent the panel off to U of Tn and called yesterday. Most of his levels were elevated somewhat. So we discussed the melatonin and Lignans as a conservative route before the trilostane. He feels that he will eventually need the trilostane but is fine with trialing the nutracels for now. I emailed him asking some questions about the biavailability of sublingual vs oral melatonin pills in canines as well as purchasing the lignans in capsule vs powder form. Waiting to hear back on that.
You can ask all the questions you need, lord knows i have a million of my own.
One of my main concerns is ....is this a death sentence for him ? I just love him so much.
I had been very active on dodgerlist forum with my other paralyzed dog and found it to be a wealth of information. Glad I found this site for him.
Helen

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome to you and Milo!

My baby, Squirt, is Atypical, too. She has been on melatonin and lignans plus some supplements for over 2 yrs. now and is doing quite well.

We tend to play 20 Questions with our new family members so be patient...we don't get really nosy until we get to know you a bit better!

What breed is Milo? I assume male? Is he neutered? If so, at what age was this done? How old is he and how much does he weigh? Does Milo have any other health issues that you are aware of? Is he on any meds, supplements, or herbs? If so, what are they, what are they for, how much does he take and how often?

How did this diagnosis come about - what caused you to take him to the vet or what caused your vet to test for Cushing's? Was/is he showing any signs? If so, what were they? What tests has he had done? Do you mind posting the actual results of those tests along with the units of measurement (ug/dl, nmol/l, etc) and the normal values? What were the recommendations from the Uni. of TN in Knoxville (UTK) for treatment? (These are usually listed at the bottom of the results sheet as numbers; as in - "your vet may want to consider numbers 1, 2, 3, or 5") Have you had enough questions for now?

The more info you can provide about Milo the better the feedback we can offer!

For now, know that you are in very good hands here and we will do all we can to help you and Milo along this journey. I know other members will be along to welcome you...and ask their own questions!

I am glad you found us and look forward to hearing from you again soon!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Some links about Atypical Cushing's:

Atypical info:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198

http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/en...Revision03.pdf

http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/en...ings201005.pdf


Link to our Helpful Resource section:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Helen,

I only have a minute but wanted to thank you for the extra info and to tell you one quick thing...

No, this is not a death sentence! So sit back, take a breath, and get ready to meet the best bunch of folks in the world - literally!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[daushieowner]

So I guess my first question is .... I am looking to purchase the flax hulls lignans. The vet said they have to be the hulls, not the oil. I emailed a local holistic vet to see if he carries it. Can I start the melatonin before I get the lignans? If I haveto order it online, it may take a few days to get it.

[lulusmom]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I see that Leslie answered your first question about atypical cushing's and has provided links to reference material that an help you understand the condition better. To answer your latest question, yes, you can start giving Milo the melatonin while you find a source for the lignans. To help you with that, I've included a link to a pdf file on the the U of Tenn website that provides a lot of resources for lignans. Also, make sure that you have just plain old melatonin, no fast acting or timed release.

http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/en...Revision03.pdf

Glynda

P.S. Oops, I see that Leslie already provided the link for the lignan info. Oh well, duplication is not a bad thing sometimes.

[daushieowner]

Thanks Glynda, esp for the tidbit on the melatonin. Didnt know that. Will stop at whole foods tonight for that. I printed all of the reading material. I have a lot of reading to do

[apollo6]

Would like to welcome you and Milo
I am Apollo's mom-Apollo is a 12 year young, 10 lb dachie, has pituitary cushing-there are three kinds see attached quick explanation:
http://www.kateconnick.com/library/cushingsdisease.html

Apollo is on Trilostane since June 2010.
It is important to know which cushing Milo has as to the right treatment and medication.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo.

[daushieowner]

Hi Everyone,
Better late than never. Here are the labs and US results you asked for. It is not allowing me to post attachments so I have to type it all in. please excuse any typos.
ALT=111
Alk Phos=412
Cortisol=164.0(norm-70.6-151)
Androstenedione=>10 (norm -.24-2.90)
estradiol=78.9 (norm 23.3-69.4)
progesterone=2.22 (norm .22-1.45)
17 OH progesterone =4.36 (norm-.25-2.63)

The note says these results indicate the presence of increased adrenal activity.

The US reads: Liver is Abnl with diffusely hyperechoic with severe round hypercechoic poorly marginated nodules ~10mm.
Gallbladder abnl with slight amount dependent echogenic sludge
right adrenal abnl with upper limit of normal thickness (7.5) with heterogenous echotexture. Small hyperechoic nodule within.
Left ADrenal abnl with upper limit of normal thickness (7.5) with heterogenous echotexture.

I started him on the melatonin yesterday. Still searching for the lignans. The problem is the dosage. He needs 25 mg a day and the ones I have been looking at on your list would require a ridiculously small amount of the powder and i dont even have a measuring device thet small. If I give a little more than the dose required, would that cause problems?
Thanks
Helen

[jrepac]

Hello Helen,
Your baby's results are very similar to what I was dealing with on my Aussie...re: lignans, you may want to try the capsules..ultimately they are easier and you have better assurance of the amount of lignans. Although my Mandy enjoyed getting her flaxseed w/vanilla yogurt every night, I was always unsure if she was really getting enough lignans. With the capsules, you need to look at the mgs on the bottle and realize only 20% is true lignans...so if 70mg, then each capsule provides 14mg of lignans. The back of the bottle will tell you the standardization percentage. We had a good debate on this some time back on the board..it's funky math! You can get these online or at your local Vitamin Shoppe...they were the best in terms of having them in stock...

http://www.vitacost.com/Source-Naturals-Lignan-Extract

good luck to you!

Jeff & Angel Mandy

[addy]

Hi Helen,

Welcome from me and my Zoe!

Zoe is on melatonin and lignans. It should not be a problem if you give a little more, however, keep in mind the SDG lignans are fiber and may cause loose stools here and there. That is what I am dealing with at the moment with Zoe. She also has colitis and durring her colitis flare, she cannot tolerate the SDG lignans so we had to stop them for now.

If that would be a problem for you, you could switch to the HMR lignans. They are not a fiber.

Hugs,
Addy