Suni

[sunimist]

Just a quick update on my girls. Suni is a challenge!! Her peeing and drinking is normal, she gets around with a skip in her gait, acting like the boss she is. But...she is still eating everything in sight, even stealing Mandi's food when she can. Being badly overweight, her trachea collapse and her eye are my concerns now. Am making an appointment this month for a dental and complete ultrasound from head to toe, and see where we stand with the eye. That is providing she can be intubated with her trachea. Do you know of anything to help her with her coughing due to the trachea? We give her cough pills and have given, twice, pills for collapsing trachea. Don't know what they were. Failed to ask and I no longer have the empty bottle. May have something else the doctor can try. UGH!! Bless her. I feel so sorry for her having such deep raspy cough and breathing difficulty when she has an episode. I stick her in front of a fan, which is what I was told to do, by the vet.

Mandi is still testing me on her eating. I am just about to throw in the towel and see if she wants some Ol Roy or some other yucky food! Being the brat she is, she would probably eat that!! Have put her on some good probiotic chews for her tummy. Her eye stays red from pawing at it. They tell me it is allergies so we are doing an allergy chew also. I also give her some Benadryl too! Other than that, she is the sweetest most loving little thing I have ever seen. She is my baby girl! I am exhausted and frustrated with their problems, but by the Grace of God, we will find some answers to make it all better.

Hope everyone is healthy, happy and doing well and having a wonderful, blessed and safe 4th of July!

[labblab]

Shelba, thanks so much for your update, but I’m sorry to hear that things are still pretty stressful for you. I sure wish I knew something that would help with Suni’s cough, but that’s one challenge that I haven’t had to face myself. Hopefully you’ll learn more when you take her in for her work up. I’ll be keeping my fingers crossed that you only find out answers instead of any new problems.

And yep, I can easily imagine your exhaustion with Madi’s appetite issues! We’ve just been through another GI upset with Luna — they really come and go with no rhyme or reason. But at least she’s doing better again, and I hope Madi will soon settle down, too.

Thanks so much for your holiday well wishes. It was a quiet weekend around our house except for the evening neighborhood fireworks. But thankfully Luna never pays any attention at all. She must be descended from a line of gun dogs because those loud booms have never bothered her or even awakened her from snoozing on the couch ;-).

Hang in there, girl, and do let us know what you find out after Suni’s appointment.
Marianne

[sunimist]

Thanks Marianne. I am searching for simple but healthy, with necessary vitamin and nutrient efficient ingredients, in home cooked meal recipes for Mandi. The girl has got my goat!! She loves her supplements but balks at the food. Brat!!

What do you feed Luna, and what supplements do you give her, if you don't mind?

Anyone have any home cooked recipes for a one year old problem child you might share?

[labblab]

Aside from preparing bland chicken and white rice during GI upsets, I have never home cooked for my dogs. So unfortunately I have no tips in that regard — hopefully some other folks will have ideas to share. Labs are notorious for being chowhounds, so for the most part, I’ve been spared issues of inappetance. It’s only now in her old-age that Luna has been having these GI issues, and I think it’s on days that her stomach is upset that she just doesn’t want to eat anything.

I’ve always fed my dogs kibble because it’s so easy to store and serve, and they’ve always been happy with it. Up until the last few years with Luna, I had rotated among high-end grainfree products. But then I got nervous reading about the possible association between grainfree food and dilated cardiomyopathy in dogs. In honesty, I didn’t see why peas and lentils and potatoes are any more a part of a natural diet for a dog than grains, anyway, so I switched to grain-containing. And, for what it’s worth, she was starting to have the GI problems while still on the grainfree, so I don’t think grain is the source of her current issues. She’s now eating Purina Pro Plan Senior Bright Mind Chicken and Rice. It shares a lot of the same ingredients as the prescription I/D food she’s been on during her GI upsets, and she seems to really like it in between episodes. To make it even more enticing, I cook ground turkey and add some crumbles with a bit of warmed water to make her meal more like a stew.

Her only medication now is Previcox for her arthritis, and Denamarin (milk thistle and SAM-e) to support her liver from possible irritation from the Previcox. I had also been giving her CBD oil for her arthritis and some Omega oil capsules for general health. But since the GI upsets started, I’ve discontinued all the oils in order to limit any possible triggers. I also have some Rx probiotics to give her during her upsets. But that’s it. For now, we’re trying to limit the things that she’s taking by mouth, and her food is allegedly nutritionally complete.

I surely do hope you can find something that makes mealtimes with Madi a lot easier. As I say, food has largely been an isolated issue for me. It was only when Barkis was so sick with his Cushing’s and now these intermittent episodes with Luna that it’s been a problem for me. But it has been *so* stressful during these few times that my heart goes out to you and anybody else who is struggling on a regular basis. As I say, hopefully some other folks will soon be by with tips to share.

Marianne

[sunimist]

Interesting you should share the grain and grain-free kibble. FWIW, I too have recently been pondering the difference it might make. Suni has been on grain-free all her life, so I may have ignorantly contributed to some of her issues. I am going to introduce some grain kibble along with her grain-free and see if she does better. I have her on a weight control kibble, but honestly, I doubt there is very little difference in it and others.

As for Mandi, I tried her on Purina Pro Plan Focus Puppy and she liked it a while... I can't count right off how many quality brands we have tried with that girl, but one or two meals and she is finished with it. She prefers Suni's weight control food over all others! Even tried some of that they fix tailored to a dogs profile!! Go figure! I am not giving up on her just yet!! That's why I am trying to get a home cooked recipe lined up for her needs, just in case all else fails! I am exhausted!!!

I am very curious about CBD oil for cushings treatment. I would love some pros and cons about it please, and especially from experienced users.

[sunimist]

I took Suni for her followup/workup today and I am pretty frustrated and in a dilemma as to what to do! Help!! First, she is having an eye enucleation the 9th of September on the right eye and the other eye that has cherry eye has now developed a cataract. The pressure was not high in the bad eye. Surprised me because i figured it would be really high.

Her ultrasound showed she has an impressively enlarged liver, but no fluid around heart or lungs. X-rays showed a very serious narrowing in the lower trachea. Coughing is getting worse.

Ultrasound showed adrenals normal size (?) with one only a tiny bit larger than the other. She said almost unnoticeable. Looked healthy with no other issues involving them. She now tends to believe the elevated ALPH is liver related rather than cushings. (?) Sludge, or whatever is in her gallbladder is worse also. Bloodwork looked great except for the high ALPH.

For right now she is letting me make most decisions regarding how aggressively we want to tackle these problems, and I am horrified I will have the wrong influence on how to treat and what to treat. The girl is happy and loving life except for the vision loss and not getting around as well as she once was. So please help me decide.
What and how to proceed. I will now say that I think the eye removal is the least of the concerns.

No dental for now. She said we wanted to see how the trachea handled the intubation on a much lesser time of anesthesia with the eye removal since it was a much shorter surgery. Sorry for the rambling, but that's my brain in overdrive working!!

Be kind and blunt....how does all this sound to you guys?

[labblab]

The girl is happy and loving life except for the vision loss and not getting around as well as she once was.

Hey there Shelba. I went ahead and quoted what you had written above, because if it was me, I think that statement would hold a lot of weight in terms of how aggressively I would want to be about intervening at this point. There’s that old saying, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Of course you don’t want to miss being proactive about treating something that can end up turning sinister. But at this point, it does seem as though the jury’s still very much out about the possibility of Cushing’s. The normally appearing adrenals on the ultrasound do nothing to *support* the diagnosis. On the flip side, liver changes and gallbladder issues and “tracheal collapse” (is that the same as narrowing?) could be affected if Cushing’s was actually present.

However, if I’m not mistaken, Suni has suffered from the tracheal issues for years now, theoretically predating the possible appearance of Cushing’s. If what she suffers from is indeed “tracheal collapse,” this article states that liver problems can often accompany the tracheal problems. But as I say, tracheal collapse may not be the same thing as tracheal narrowing. Maybe you can clarify that for us. Anyway, here’s the article:

A study indicated that a high percentage of dogs with collapsing trachea also had concurrent liver disease. Therefore, all dogs with collapsing trachea should have their liver function monitored closely. Your veterinarian will provide specific treatment advice to help with your dog's condition.

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-p...llapse-in-dogs

Regardless of cause, I’m thinking there are two liver tests you might consider having done in the hope of identifying more accurately what’s going on with her liver. One is a totally noninvasive blood test — a “bile acid test.” This test can show whether or not the liver is functioning normally. If so, that could relieve some worry about the importance of the enlargement regardless of the source.

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/bile-acid-test

The other thing you might discuss with your vet is having a liver biopsy done at the time she’s knocked out for her eye procedure. I think biopsies can be more or less invasive, but I think they can be as simple as inserting a needle and extracting some tissue. If your vet doesn’t think that would be too risky, that might be a diagnostic that could better identify the true nature of her liver enlargement. However, if the bile acid test shows that her liver is functioning normally, you might not want to even consider a biopsy at all.

So those are my own thoughts right now. Also, I see that I missed seeing your earlier question about CBD oil. I don’t know a whole lot about it, but I had decided to add it alongside Luna’s daily NSAID for added relief from her arthritic pain. There have been at least a couple veterinary studies that have indicated that CBD oil can be helpful in that regard. I do think it was somewhat helpful for her, but after the development of GI issues last winter, I’ve discontinued all her supplements aside from Denamarin for her liver. In that vein, I don’t know that CBD has the potential to actually harm the liver, but I do believe it can elevate test results for ALT, another liver enzyme. So right now while you’re trying to pinpoint Suni’s liver issues, it might not be a great time to introduce CBD and risk muddying the test results.

OK, gotta close for now. But definitely do get back to us with your own thoughts about all this.

[sunimist]

She has been diagnosed with tracheal collapse. The trachea is collapsing worse at the bottom according to the x-rays. Yes, you are correct Marianne. She has had trachea issues for several years now and have gradually gotten worse to the point of where they are now. And get this!! You know what would alleviate the symptoms most? Prednisone! It may come to that, but not right now. GEEZ!! We are doing the bronchial drugs now plus a cough suppressant. She has done better today.

I am almost certain I am not going to pursue any cushings testing right now. I am beginning to believe from all indications that the liver might be the problem and we need to get her weight down for one thing. That's going to be a challenge since the girl loves to eat (and always has)! Exercise is also problematic because of her leg. Oh Lawd!!

The doctor would not elaborate on CBD oil, as I expected. She said in Texas that it was against the law to prescribe it. No problem, I was just curious. I am setting it aside for time being, but may get back to it later.

We will probably do a bile acids test and maybe even a biopsy when and if she has her dental. That all depends on how she manages with the anesthesia during eye surgery.

Thank you dear friend for helping me sort some things out. You are such a blessing!

[sunimist]

Marianne, if you need to move my post to another topic since cushings isn't at the forefront any longer, please feel free to do so. I realize she could still have, and probably does, cushings, but we are having to address other problems before we get to cushings. Thank you mam!

[labblab]

Hey Shelba, I think we’re fine if we leave Suni’s thread right here for the time being. Even though other issues are now at the forefront, Cushing’s may still end up reappearing in the mix. As long as it remains a possibility, even in the background, I think it makes sense to keep our discussion about Suni here on the main forum.

So do keep us updated as things progress, OK?