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Thread: Yukon, American Eskimo - Experience w/ Lignans and Melatonin?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Georgia
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    15,292

    Default Re: Yukon, American Eskimo - Experience w/ Lignans and Melatonin?

    Hi again! You’ll see I’ve merged your new thread into your original one, but I’ve changed the overall title to better reflect your current questions. This way, all of Yukie’s info will remain consolidated in one place for us, but hopefully folks will be better aware of the advice you’re seeking right now.

    As I wrote above, I was guessing this is the route your internist would go. To reassure you, melatonin and lignans are both generally safe supplements, so I don’t think you’re risking anything by giving this a try. We’ll just have to see whether or not they improve Yukie’s symptoms. Some of our members have seen success; some not as much. It usually does take time, however, for these supplements to produce observable results, so patience can be a great virtue. I’m hoping some of our members who have used these supplements will stop by to talk with you soon.

    In the meantime, here’s a Lignans Fact Sheet published by Tennesse that helps guide owners re: obtaining lignans. Your vet may already have shared this with you, but if not, here it is.

    https://vetmed.tennessee.edu/vmc/dls...NFORMATION.pdf

    Marianne

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    rural central ARK
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    14,549

    Default Re: Yukon, American Eskimo - Experience w/ Lignans and Melatonin?

    Based on those results Yukon has Atypical Cushing's - meaning the cortisol is normal but 2 or more of the intermediate hormones are elevated. With these results I would not worry about trying Vetoryl (Trilostane) at all and I would put the thought of trying the Lysodren on a back burner. The protocol for Atyipcal is the combination of melatonin and lignans so I am glad they are not prolonging the separation of these two supplements. It typically takes at least 4 months to see any improvements so I am glad they will be combined soon. The melatonin will probably make him a little sleepy at first but he should adjust pretty soon and I would caution you to watch for diarrhea when the lignans are added and if that happens you can lower the dose of lignans and slowly increase. My Squirt started off Atypical and yes, the melatonin and lignans did help her so have hope but also have patience. Just remember it can take several months to see improvements.
    "May you know that absence is full of tender presence and that nothing is ever lost or forgotten." John O'Donahue, "Eternal Echoes"

    Death is not a changing of worlds as most imagine, as much as the walls of this world infinitely expanding.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Yukon, American Eskimo - Experience w/ Lignans and Melatonin?

    You said that Squirt started off Atypical - did he then go into a full Cushing's mode? Do they start out Atypical and then progress? And if so about how long does that take?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    rural central ARK
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    14,549

    Default Re: Yukon, American Eskimo - Experience w/ Lignans and Melatonin?

    Yes, my Squirt started out Atypical then her cortisol started to rise and that meant she had true, or conventional, Cushing's with elevated cortisol. In most pups we have seen who have elevated cortisol their intermediate hormones are also elevated - they all seem to go hand in hand very often. Atypical is a controversial form of Cushing's - some vets will simply say there is no such thing, others say it is simply the first stage or a precursor to true Cushing's with elevated cortisol. However, we have had pups who never developed elevated cortisol. It's been a very long time since I've seen one but it has happened.
    "May you know that absence is full of tender presence and that nothing is ever lost or forgotten." John O'Donahue, "Eternal Echoes"

    Death is not a changing of worlds as most imagine, as much as the walls of this world infinitely expanding.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Yukon, American Eskimo - Experience w/ Lignans and Melatonin?

    Well let's hope it happens with Yukon. I am starting the Melatonine tonight. Keep your fingers crossed.

  6. #26

    Default Yukon has Atypical Cushings and now Diabetes

    Hi,

    It has been a few months since I wrote regarding my 13 year old American Eskimo Yukon and his journey with Cushings that he was diagnosed with in April. Because his Cortisol was not high he could not tolerate the Vetoryl. I did the extensive testing from University of Tennessee and discovered his Androstenedione, Estradiol and 17 OH Progesterone were high so I started giving him Flax Hull Lignans and Melatonin. He has been on it about 5 months and seemed to be doing pretty good. About 5 weeks ago he ingested a fish hook and had to have surgery to have it removed. He then acquired an infection in the incision so he was put on antibiotics for two weeks. Last week we took him in for his laser treatment and the next day he started getting diahrrea and was lethargic and drinking a ton of water and peeing a ton. We took hm to the vet and she said he probably had an upper intestinal inflammation and secondary Pancreatitis as a result of e dehydration and inflammation. We started IV fluids with B12 and Cerenia because he was also eating grass and vomited a couple times. Today we brought him in for his IV and she wanted me to bring his first morning urine. They ran it and his glucose was 1,000mg and they told me he was probably diabetic. They said his fructosamine was normal though. Went to urgent care and they did blood rest it was 486. We have to start insulin injections twice a day. I am so devastated. Is this easy to manage with an already cushings dog?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Georgia
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    15,292

    Default Re: Yukon has Atypical Cushings and now Diabetes

    Welcome back again, although I’m so sorry that Yukon is having even more problems. I’ve merged this newest post into your original thread so we’ll have all his info consolidated in one place. I think the biggest help we can give you right now is to urge you to register on our sister site dedicated to the treatment of canine diabetes. The good folks there are super knowledgeable and will be able to guide you forward with the insulin.

    http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/

    In Yukie’s situation, I don’t know that the atypical Cushing’s diagnosis will complicate the diabetes treatment. It’s the combination of high cortisol and elevated glucose levels that can offer challenges. So if Yukon’s cortisol has remained within normal range, that issue wouldn’t be present. Having said that, however, how recently has Yukon’s cortisol been tested? I’m just wondering whether it finally might have started going up, playing some role in the onset of the diabetes. Right at this moment, management of the diabetes definitely takes top priority, though, and cortisol testing might well be inaccurate due to the other current stresses on his system. But retesting of his cortisol might be warranted further down the line. Just a thought to “bookmark.”

    So please do head over to the k9diabetes site as well, and I’ll also check in on you there, too.
    Marianne

  8. #28

    Default Re: Yukon has Atypical Cushings and now Diabetes

    Quote Originally Posted by labblab View Post
    Welcome back again, although I’m so sorry that Yukon is having even more problems. I’ve merged this newest post into your original thread so we’ll have all his info consolidated in one place. I think the biggest help we can give you right now is to urge you to register on our sister site dedicated to the treatment of canine diabetes. The good folks there are super knowledgeable and will be able to guide you forward with the insulin.

    http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/

    In Yukie’s situation, I don’t know that the atypical Cushing’s diagnosis will complicate the diabetes treatment. It’s the combination of high cortisol and elevated glucose levels that can offer challenges. So if Yukon’s cortisol has remained within normal range, that issue wouldn’t be present. Having said that, however, how recently has Yukon’s cortisol been tested? I’m just wondering whether it finally might have started going up, playing some role in the onset of the diabetes. Right at this moment, management of the diabetes definitely takes top priority, though, and cortisol testing might well be inaccurate due to the other current stresses on his system. But retesting of his cortisol might be warranted further down the line. Just a thought to “bookmark.”

    So please do head over to the k9diabetes site as well, and I’ll also check in on you there, too.
    Marianne

    Hi Marianne,

    Yukon's cortisol has not been tested since May, 2018 when my vet referred me to Blue Pearl to see an internist and he submitted the test to the University of Tennessee. He has been doing very well on the flax hull lignans and melatonin, but you are right maybe his cortisol has now began to rise. Thanks for referring me to the diabetes support group. I will be writing and joining today. This just breaks my heart he was doing so good and all of a sudden this fish hook incident and surgery made us go way backwards.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    15,292

    Default Re: Yukon has Atypical Cushings and now Diabetes

    I’m so happy to see that you’ve posted over on k9diabetes! For the benefit of our members here, this is a link to your K9D thread so that we can all keep tabs on you over there, as well ;-)

    http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7763

    Marianne

  10. #30

    Default Re: Yukon has Atypical Cushings and now Diabetes

    Quote Originally Posted by labblab View Post
    I’m so happy to see that you’ve posted over on k9diabetes! For the benefit of our members here, this is a link to your K9D thread so that we can all keep tabs on you over there, as well ;-)

    http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7763

    Marianne
    Hi Marianne,

    The last 10 days havebeen quite a challenge for me since Yukon was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. We have been doing the insulin injections and checking his blood levels various times of the day. His blood glucose has not dropped under 500 in the last 10 days and were doing everything right I think.

    I started googling all of his medications he's on to see if they interact with insulin. I found some very interesting articles on melatonin and insulin resistance. One of the Google searches said that melatonin binds to receptors on pancreatic cells to suppress insulin secretion. This causes them to be more sensitive to the effects of melatonin, which results in an exaggerated inhibition of insulin secretion. That makes their bodies less effective at regulating blood sugar.

    My question to my K9 Cushing's Friends is if I take him off the melatonin is that OK? He will still be on the flax hull lignans. When I did the test at the University of Tennessee in May 2018 his cortisol was within normal levels it was three other hormones that we're off.

    I did call the University of Tennessee today and asked about the melatonin and someone there said there was no clinical Proof that melatonin throws off insulin, but they have seen many cases of this happening. He told me to give it at least a month to maybe see results.

    Has anyone had experience with us? I am also on the diabetes forum and they told me to reach out to my Cushing's friends to see if anybody else had this situation. Thank you in advance
    Last edited by YukiesMom; 10-09-2018 at 08:26 PM.

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