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Thread: New member Quincy's mom--testing questions

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    16,150

    Default Re: New member Quincy's mom--testing questions

    We also had the LDDS, ACTH and US. We did the intermediary test too (other sexual hormones) but that was solely due to a negative on the LDDS and a positive on the ACTH. I think the LDDS and see what that shows will give you and idea and then if you want to follow up with an ACTH after you see what the LDDS shows, you could do so.
    Sharlene and the late great diva - Molly muffin (always missed and never forgotten)

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: New member Quincy's mom--testing questions

    Well, things have taken a turn with Quincy. He had a second LDDS in mid-March that was completely normal. Our vet suggested an ACTH and full adrenal panel at University of Tennessee Knoxville. That just came back with a post-stim of 28, so it looks like a positive test. Again, I am trying not to panic. Quincy has no symptoms other than elevated ALKP (830's) and hair loss along his belly and trunk. He's an agility dog, so we take him to a chiropractor once a month; she says he has mild loss of muscle tone along his rear spine.

    Both of his vets (conventional and chiro) are suggesting we start with HMR lignans and Melatonin to see if that helps. He's on milk thistle (Denamarin didn't help). I'd like to know everyone's experience, if any, with lignans and melatonin, and what steps to take next (e.g. repeat abdominal ultrasound?) Thanks.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    rural central ARK
    Posts
    14,549

    Default Re: New member Quincy's mom--testing questions

    Melatonin and lignans are the combination used to treat a form of Cushing's called Atypical in which the cortisol is NORMAL but two or more of the intermediate hormones are elevated. Since you had a sample sent to UTK you should have gotten a report listing all the hormones tested - like estradiol, progesterone, and aldosterone to name a few. Could you share those results as well? If the cortisol is elevated then the melatonin and lignans will do little to nothing for it - that combo only works on those intermediate hormones. However if the cortisol is elevated that can cause the other hormones to elevate as well. Most conventional cush pups (with elevated cortisol) do have elevations in many if not all of the hormones. My Squirt started out as Atypical and was on the melatonin/lignans combo for quite a while before her cortisol started rising. The combo did help until the cortisol started rising and then her appetite kicked in BIG time. She has always been a Miss Piggy but her appetite was unbelievable when the coritsol kicked in! At that point we added Lysodren to her lignans and melatonin and she did very well for the rest of her life.

    How is his appetite? Any increase or decrease in that area? Any pot belly, panting for no reason, changes in skin as is darker and thinner, is he heat intolerant? Has the hair loss worsened since your first post? Without more signs I would be very hesitant to start any treatment. The lignans and melatonin won't hurt anything but don't expect them to lower the cortisol. Does Quincy get stressed at the vet in general or riding in a car? A dog that is stressed for other reasons can return an elevated cortisol reading that is completely unrelated to Cushing's.

    And then there's Molly, Sharlene's dog (Molly Muffin) - negative LDDS several times yet did have Cushing's. Here is a link to Molly's journey; you can read it and see if anything seems familiar to Quincy's journey so far. https://www.k9cushings.com/forum/sho...lly-has-passed

    But if I were in your shoes I would hold off on starting Lysodren or Trilostane either one until the signs were stronger and other labs showed more of an indication of Cushing's like changes in neutrophils and monocytes, increases in glucose, cholesterol as well as the liver enzymes (we typically see ALP in the 1000's). Others may come along and say they would start treatment. But don't rush....based on what you have shared so far I still say he is in the early stages IF this indeed really is Cushing's.
    Last edited by Squirt's Mom; 05-03-2019 at 04:49 PM.
    "May you know that absence is full of tender presence and that nothing is ever lost or forgotten." John O'Donahue, "Eternal Echoes"

    Death is not a changing of worlds as most imagine, as much as the walls of this world infinitely expanding.

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