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Thread: Hi. I'm new and my fur baby Molly might have Cushing's.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    Default Hi. I'm new and my fur baby Molly might have Cushing's.

    Hi. My name is Ami and I have 5 dogs. I've rescued a few and I love my babies. My oldest is fur baby is Molly. She is a mini schnauzer and is 12 years old. Molly has some symptoms of Cushing's. She has the round pot belly. She drinks and urinates a lot. She started having accidents in the house, but I just thought it was due to aging. She is always hungry and food aggressive with the other dogs. She has bad teeth. She had to have 11 extracted last January. She has been getting a lot of fatty tumors. I took her to the vet because I was afraid she had cancer. He said they were fatty tumors and drew senior blood work just to see if anything was off. They drew a Total Health Plus Chem 27 with SDMA, a CBC, and a T4 on 6/19. She also had these labs drawn before the teeth surgery and everything was normal except for she was low on the thyroid T4. It was 0.9. The vet called to tell me that her labs looked OK in June except for the SDMA which is a lab that can predict kidney disease in the future. Hers is 15. 0-14 is normal. It was 7 back on 1/31/17. He said to put her on Hills science Diet kidney diet and to redraw the labs in 6-8 weeks. I asked for a copy of her labs. The June labs showed a high ALP 390, high cholesterol 491, low T4 0.7, and low lymphocyte 813. I google these values and her symptoms and Cushing's kept appearing in the search results. I called my vet and asked him if she could have that. I'm not questioning my vet. He's been my vet for years and in all fairness I had not mentioned the peeing, food aggression, and frequent urination. Those symptoms came on slowly and I just thought it was part of aging. She has dark spots on her skin, but she doesn't have sores or thin skin. My vet had me collect her urine and he did a cortisol creatinine ratio on her. The results were positive. I think he said it was in the 300s. I don't have a copy of it. They are doing the low dexamethasone test on her tomorrow. She also had an x ray done in January and she has an enlarged liver. Here's my questions. I'm wondering if I should change her diet. From what I'm reading, it sounds like she should have a grain free, high quality protein, low purine and low fat diet with some veggies. What are you feeding your Cushing's babies? Is there a good commercial diet for them? Right now she's eating the Taste of the Wild prairie grain free canned and some of their kibble. I didn't do the kidney diet because I'm not sure that is the right diet for her. I think its more for dogs in late kidney disease from my research. I keep reading that i should cook for her or do a raw diet. What do you think? Also has anyone used natural treatments? I've seen melatonin, lignans, ginkgo and Si Maio San mentioned on the web for Cushing's. I'm not opposed to using Vetoryl. I believe in using Western and alternative therapies. I'm just wondering if anyone has had success with these other therapies and if you can use them with the Vetoryl. I will check with my vet before I give her anything because I do not want to hurt her kidneys. If she does end up having Cushing's, I'm also going to make sure my vet is aware of the new low dosage recommendations on Vetoryl that you have posted on this forum. I had been feeding all of my dogs Purina One Lamb and Rice kibble, but I've switched to Taste of the Wild Prairie dry and canned. From what I've read, it sounds like the Purina One was not that great for them. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Washington
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    Default Re: Hi. I'm new and my fur baby Molly might have Cushing's.

    Hi Ami and welcome to you, Molly and your other furbabies! I'm sorry that Molly is having these issues but you've found a great place on the web to help you figure out what is best for her.

    Thanks for all the information you provided in your post. I'm curious if Molly is being treated for the low thyroid, or if that is considered secondary to her possible Cushing's at this time.

    As for food, I'm sure you know there are many opinions out there as to the best diet for our pups, Cushing's or not. Taste of the Wild is what I feed my dogs, including Visuddha who had Cushing's, until he had other issues and needed a more specialized diet for his liver per my vet (when I began cooking for him). Others cook for all their dogs, others use raw (commercial or otherwise) and still others feed a variety of commercial kibble/canned food. I don't think you need to do anything differently for that right now.

    Be sure to ask for a copy of the LDDS test result from today, so you have the numbers.

    I'm sure others will be by with more questions and suggestions. Once again, welcome! I look forward to learning more about your sweet girl.

    Shana
    Mama to Jackson and Kira, and my darling Cushing's angel, Visuddha

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    York, PA.
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    11,043

    Default Re: Hi. I'm new and my fur baby Molly might have Cushing's.

    Hi Ami,

    Welcome to you and Molly! Wow, 5 dogs! Bless you for being an adoptive parent, I have a 11 pom., Marvin, who I rescued 2 years ago, he sure has been a wonderful addition to my family.

    As Shana said, there really is no "set diet" for a dog with Cushing's. A diet should be tailored to that dog's particular health issues and if Molly has been doing well on the Taste of the Wild I see no reason to change it, especially if new supplements/medications are going to be introduced because if she would start having some ill side effects than it makes it hard to distinguish just what the culprit is. What usually is recommended is a feed with a high quality protein and moderate fiber but like I mentioned, if she is doing fine with what she is eating I wouldn't switch it.

    Of course I have a few questions about your sweet girl How much does she weigh? Is her urine diluted? Was an UTI ruled out as a possibility for the increased drinking/urinating? Was an urinalysis done, and if so, could you post those findings? Could you get the exact result of the cortisol creatinine ratio test and post it here for us, and when the low dose dexamethasone suppression test is performed could you post those numbers too (there will be 3)?

    The SDMA test results correspond with a loss of glomerular filtration rate (GFR) so when this number is elevated usually something is going on with the kidneys. And since Molly's SDMA result is just outside the normal reference ranges I would definitely keep a close eye on that. I'm including a link to a "Frequently asked questions about SDMA" article which I found very helpful: https://www.idexx.com/files/small-an.../sdma-faqs.pdf

    Cushing's is when a dog's body produces excessive amounts of cortisol. And if Molly does indeed have Cushing's unfortunately I don't know of any truly effective holistic/alternate substitutes to the Rx medication when one wants to lower cortisol levels significantly. Having said that, if clinical symptoms are not that bothersome to the dog or owner, some members have told us that Cushex and Adrenal Harmony Gold worked very well in controlling symptoms but only for a short time period. Now, Cushex and Adrenal Harmony Gold have no controlled clinical testing whatsoever to back up their claims (we know this because we have contacted the manufacturers and we have been told that no testing has been done).

    I sure am sorry for the reasons that brought you here but glad you found us and we will help in any way we can.

    Hugs, Lori

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
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    Default Re: Hi. I'm new and my fur baby Molly might have Cushing's.

    Hello and welcome from me too. As the other mentioned, type of food is up to an owners preference, we've had dogs do well on all manner of food.
    the key is the good quality protein and moderate fat content, which because your molly is a schnauzer, and they are prone to the high cholesterol (which molly already has) i'd go with a lower fat diet.

    Welcome to the forum. You must have a busy house with 5 dogs. Sounds pretty great to me.
    Sharlene and the late great diva - Molly muffin (always missed and never forgotten)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    2

    Default Re: Hi. I'm new and my fur baby Molly might have Cushing's.

    Thank you for the warm welcome and helpful suggestions. They haven't treated the low thyroid. They did not do a urinalysis. I'm not sure what her urine cortisol/creatinine ratio is. The results say RE: 829 URINE CORTISOL/CREATININE RATIO 59. I'm thinking the 829 is the number assigned to the test and 59 is her result. I will have to ask the vet. He called me today and said the results of her low dexamethasone test are inconclusive. He said she may be borderline. He said the 8 hour result was 0.9. I can't remember the other 2 results. He called me at work today. I'm going to get a print out on Thursday which is my next day off. I'm a nurse and I work 12 hour shifts. He said to wait 3 months and do an ACTH test. She weighs 20 lbs. I read some articles for the University of Tennessee Veterinary that mentioned using melatonin. I'm wondering if that would help her symptoms in the meantime. I mentioned this research to my vet, but he was not familiar with it. I'm going to give him the article on Thursday and he said he would read it and ask the other vets in the practice if they are familiar with it. I will post her test results from the low dexamethasone test on Thursday when I get them. I'm also going to ask him about treating the low thyroid. Thanks again for all the help and concern

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    York, PA.
    Posts
    11,043

    Default Re: Hi. I'm new and my fur baby Molly might have Cushing's.

    I believe the University of Tennessee Veterinary article you are referring to is on Atypical Cushing's, this is when the adrenal sex hormones are elevated but the cortisol is not. The University of Tennessee lab recommends melatonin and lignans as the treatment for Atypical Cushing's.

    We have a good bit of information about Atypical Cushing's in our Helpful Resource Forum so here's a handy link to that info: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198

    Lori

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