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Thread: Young boxer lily diagnosed

  1. #51
    westcoastflea1 Guest

    Default Re: Young boxer lily diagnosed

    i believe within the first few months water and food consumption were down. it took longer to see results as the specialist sold me expired vetoryl, which declan took for the first month. the only symptoms relieved in the entire time he was on vetoryl about a year or so getting up to 300mg per day was water food consumption. it wasnt until i put him on thyroid meds that everything changed complete 180. if i were you i would see what thyroid levels are. you want to see lab results of t3 t4 ft4 ft3 tsh if in low ranges regardless of ft4 being normal i would increase thyroid meds feed lily merrick 96% meat canned dog food protein will help with muscle building diabetes can go hand in hand with cushings so no carbs since they convert to glucose also low fat to keep pancreatitis away. has her gall bladder been looked at ? if it is sludgy it can adversely effect her liver causing alp alt to increase you can put her on ursidiol $50.00 a month to clear out gall bladder to help keep liver healthy. key is to keep cortisol levels down and try to keep all other organs healthy.

  2. #52
    westcoastflea1 Guest

    Default Re: Young boxer lily diagnosed

    uccr is the first test that should be done when trying to diagnose a possible cushings dog although it does have false positives its negative results are much more reliable. so if i have a uccr done and the lab says my dog is negative for cushings than i have a pretty good idea that cortisol is under control. here is one quote from a vet "Although the UC:Cr is more frequently elevated than it is normal, when it is normal, you know that your patient does not have Cushing's disease" pub med www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov states that " Using the cutoff of 12.27 nano mol/ micro mol(based on data of normal subjects) for the urine cortisol creatinine ratio we get a sensitivity of 93.75% and a specificity of 100%. Also the positive and negative predictive value as calculated with this cutoff is 100% and 93.3% respectively.

    Administrative Note: please see westcoastflea1's own thread for a continued discussion of the use of the UCCR for both diagnostic and monitoring purposes.

    http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/show...524#post200524
    Last edited by labblab; 04-18-2017 at 06:01 AM. Reason: Addition of note.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Default Re: Young boxer lily diagnosed

    Update on lily.

    We brought lily to another vet to get a second opinion and he said all test look good..
    He does recommend doing a full thyroid panel, go from prednisone to a non steroid anti-inflammatory, and to try lysodren.
    Both the cushings and thyroid number show to be under control, but the symptoms aren't.
    The second vet does agree with the first that most likely the tumor is growing, but no way to tell without MRI which is out of our price range

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Young boxer lily diagnosed

    What symptoms is Lily still displaying?

  5. #55
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    Nov 2016
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    Maryland but currently staying in Indiana
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    Default Re: Young boxer lily diagnosed

    Yes, I would be very curious to hear more detail about Lily's behaviors. Nearly six months ago, my dog Skippy started down the Vetoryl trail after two ultra sounds and extensive testing. While his symptoms were never under control nor were his numbers. If you can plow through it, I describe in detail Skippy's symptoms on my thread. No circling or getting lost in corners but lots of cognitive issues, dullness, often refusal to walk, seeming fear of going outside, starring and so on. Also, see Mojo's thread by Lilytara, Kathy's thread, who posted on yours, and Laurie's thread about their boxer Charlotte all who have or had macro tumors. Also, search this forum for macro tumors or macro adenoma. Both Vetoryl and Lysodren will only make the macro tumor grow if she has one. A steep learning curve is still ahead of you in trying to help Lily who is a very young Cushing's dog indeed. I would hesitate to start Lysodren but I understand you have few options. I can find no medical treatment options for a macro that are affordable except Cabergoline. There is a little evidence with humans that it shrinks ACTH secreting and Prolactin secreting pituitary tumors and one old study on dogs by Castillo. We know Lilly is secreting ACTH. I can offer more info depending on what you decide to do but believe me, there are no easy answers.
    Skippy's Mom

  6. #56
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Young boxer lily diagnosed

    She has the dullness, and doesn't like going outside..
    Also she is real weak and limps everywhere.
    Our main vet says she doesn't want to put on lysodren.
    But is doing another full thyroid panel.

    So is there anything else yo take for the macro tumor?

  7. #57
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Young boxer lily diagnosed

    Pituitary macro Tumors continue to grow until they eventually take over. There are a few things you can do to help Lily feel more comfortable, but there is no known cure other than surgery. Surgery isn't an option for most of our pups. Radiation therapy is a possibilty, which can shrink a tumor allowing more time. Even then, the tumor generally grows back. Both of those treatments are very costly.

    Pain meds are a must. You already mentioned a non-steriod anti-inflammatory. That could help release some of the swelling around the tumor, taking some of the pressure off of the brain. Trammadol - is also an option, paricular for restlessness at night.

    Some of our members are trying Cabergoline, as a chance to shrink the tumor. It is said to help in about 40% of the cases, depending on what part of the pituitary gland is affected. I don't know much about it, but am anxious to learn more. I have no idea how effective it is. You might want to ask your vet about it.

    Sorry, I wish I could do more.

    Kathy

    Quote Originally Posted by nietodevin View Post
    So is there anything else yo take for the macro tumor?
    Kathy and Angel Buddy. The mightiest of all lizard hunters!

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Young boxer lily diagnosed

    These drugs used to lower cortisol will cause a macro to grow faster according to studies done on Vetoryl. To my knowledge there are no such studies on Lyso but logic says it will do the same. So if a macro is in play, stopping all cortisol lowering drugs is usually best. In fact, Prednisone is often used to help in these cases.
    "May you know that absence is full of tender presence and that nothing is ever lost or forgotten." John O'Donahue, "Eternal Echoes"

    Death is not a changing of worlds as most imagine, as much as the walls of this world infinitely expanding.

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Young boxer lily diagnosed

    I wish more vets understood the importance of knowing whether a tumor was a macro, but I also know that not all of us can afford the scan or MRI to determine it. We were unable to afford those diagnostics for our dog Charlotte but in the end it was apparent she had an enlarging tumor since she was displaying so many of the symptoms. We said goodbye to Charlotte a couple of weeks ago, she was only about 7 years old.

    I wanted to add to what the others have said, only because I think everyone should know about all the options for treatment. It's hard to believe that natural/holistic treatments could help when drugs don't seem to be working but I believe that sometimes they can actually be more effective. We had Charlotte on some very strong anti-inflammatory herbs and supplements at the end of her life, along with prednisone. Unfortunately, we didn't start them in time to even give them a chance to work (natural substances take longer to work than drugs). But I believe that these supplements don't hurt and can only possibly help in a case with a macro tumor. Below are some of the things that were recommended to us for shrinking a tumor naturally and although each individual dog is different depending on the meds they are taking I believe most of these supplements would be safe to add to the medical regimen.

    Milk Thistle - supports the liver but also has been studied in humans in regards to shrinking pituitary tumors

    Curcumin - a constituent of turmeric, it has powerful anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory properties. I was given an article written about studies on how it can shrink brain tumors in dogs only 2 days before Charlotte died. I'd be happy to share that if you are interested. But I do know it has to be given properly in order for the body to utilize it. We found a good quality capsule that was easy to give to Charlotte because she had become so finicky with her food but you can also make a golden paste out of turmeric, coconut oil and black pepper and add it to their food if they will eat it that way.

    Boswellia - also extremely anti-inflammatory. It comes from the same plant that we get Frankincense Essential Oil from and it has been studied for it's anti-cancer and tumor shrinking properties. The capsule we gave Charlotte with the curcumin also contained boswellia.

    In addition to reducing inflammation it's important to support the body's own ability to fight and repair itself so boosting the immune system is something that should be a priority. Here are a couple of things that were highly recommended to us for Charlotte. The first on the list is one I purchased and gave to her the last 5 days of her life (clearly not long enough to see a difference) and the second I had planned to order if she had lived longer.

    APF - this is a herbal supplement that supports the dog's immune system and contains Adaptogens that help the body adapt to stresses and increase resistance to factors that cause damage.

    Max Immune Forte - another immune booster that contains probiotics. Gut health is so important and although it's not what we are treating when we are concerned with Cushings it's imperative that a dog's gut be healthy so it's immune system can work properly and fight what is causing damage.

    I believe the body can heal itself when given the proper tools. It doesn't always work that way and often times I think we don't catch things in time for the natural treatments to work. But I also know, and you of course need to consult your vet and also a good holistic practitioner about this, that most of the above treatments can be combined safely with the meds our cush pups are taking. Many humans and pets respond better to holistic treatments than they do drugs so I feel it's worth a try and wanted to share with you since I think everyone else has covered all the other options.

    I wish we had known earlier what we were dealing with so we could have started Charlotte on all of the above before the tumor had gotten out of control. I also wish the diagnostics were more reasonable so more people could afford to do them right away upon diagnosis. My heart aches for you, and everyone else on this forum who is going through, or has gone through, this journey with their pups. And it's especially heartbreaking when the dog is as young as Lily!

    Hugs,
    Laurie

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