Recent diagnosis - 14yo cocker/ my precious baby passed away

[tank&kat]

Since she stopped taking vetoryl a few days ago, her appetite should have improved. How has she been doing? I absolutely agree with Marianne that an IMS, internal medicine specialist could certainly help. Not many gp vets are equipped to treat concurrent endocrine illnesses.

Which vet prescribed the rx low fat food? Was it the one that said mc donalds hamburgers were fine to feed her?

~Kat

[labblab]

I really wish I had some better diagnostic ideas to throw out myself, but I do think somebody really knowledgeable needs to take a look at your girl ASAP in order to sort out all the abnormalities. Since she is still not eating, I think she will continue to degenerate without some professional help rather quickly. Here's a link that can help you locate an internal medical specialist in your area:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182

I just don't know whether her pancreas nor Cushing's have ever been the true issues here, and I'm really fearful for her right now.

Marianne

[roseiswild]

Hi

*This is probably going to be pretty long. I'm going to try to answer as much as I can.*

Unfortunately, I don't have any printouts or copies of any of her imaging tests. I didn't see them in her chart, but they may keep them separate. It is entirely possible there is more than is being said. I really don't know.

Going off what the two vets that have been treating her said to me = The dog is anemic and has an infection. They are very concerned. They can't get ahead of it. It's not getting worse, but it's not really improving. She possibly has an abscess, maybe something else is going on. They don't see anything on the imaging they've done to explain it, but maybe there's a small tumour they can't see. The liver count is high; sugar is low. They are concerned she may develop sepsis if it gets too low. She's not really eating, but she really needs to eat, so feed her anything she's willing to eat to get her to eat. Make sure she takes all her pills. I'm really sorry. = It sounds to me like they think she might have developed some sort of immune issue, or cancer, or something, and that this is the end.
Going off that, I decided to call the vet and ask about all of that. Also asked if I should increase her pain medication to 3 times a day instead of 2 since they seem to think this is the end. Also asked if it's okay to put food down her during the times I'm giving her the meds (except the denamarin), and if it would it help them work. She didn't really have anything to say she hadn't already, and she didn't tell me to increase her pain meds, but she did say it would be okay to do the food thing and that it would probably help, yes.

Fights with honey! Many since she got home. lol. So far she has swallowed it, but she has always hated it for some reason. A friend brought us over some food, molasses and agave, and I got her a squeeze tube vitamin supplement (dying or not, I see no reason for her to suffer side-effects of vit deficiencies during all of this), which does have some sugar in it. So, at the very least, we have more sugar raising options and food available and more nutrition going on. Have another bag of lactating ringers and needles on the way. They didn't want to refill her rx's that have run out at this time.

The vitamins (and sweet stuff) helped a lot so far - energy improved, moving around more.
I have to say - her attitude has been pretty great this whole time. Been very cooperative/understanding - taking her meds no problem, doing the fluid treatments no problem, putting up with me having to carry her around to go potty, etc. Aside from stairs (which she tried to sneak past me to climb on her own - several times! stubborn girl), she's needed very little help to get around. Especially when she's motivated.

The vet that gave the rx for the food was not the same vet that was happy about McDonalds, but the two don't really seem to disagree on much regarding my girl. If she approved of the idea or not, she did not say anything to me about it. Over the phone or otherwise.

I agree - see a specialist (or someone like that). I wanted to take her before, but (probably) not going to happen. Unfortunately. I'm already beyond tapped out, and my financial helper is simply not going for it. At all. Huge fights. I have continued to look into and ask, but... truth is - we're probably stuck with me doing the best I can with what we already have or can get. Really worried, but she does seem to be doing better. At least, at the moment.
((To be honest... based on what they've said and their behaviour, I've pretty much spent this entire time terrified that she's going to die any minute, and that hasn't really changed. I've already hid from my pup and cried so many times. Of course, dogs attitude = What's wrong? I can fix it. I'm not dying, but thanks for all the cool foodstuffs and sleeping on the floor with me. Can we sleep on the bathroom floor again for a little while tonight? I know it sucks, but I'm bored with the living room again. I know... Let's go outside and bother someone. Bring the chicken! And don't forget my drink. = lol. Dogs.))

I don' t know what's going on. To me, her lab reports look like a bad infection with (recovering) anemia, and that - even if she had Cushing's - she was very responsive to treatment, but I don't know what to make of anything at this point.

Thank you all so much for all the ideas, and advice, and... everything.

[molly muffin]

Well I think cushings is the least of her problems and probably not relevant. I do think raising the sugar and getting some into her, over coming the infection will help.
It's encouraging that when her sugar level is up a bit to within range that her energy level improves. That might also be affecting her appetite.

[tank&kat]

Randy,

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I have done the same thing. I have to leave the room when I cry at the thought of losing my dog. I can't let him see me cry. I just can't. That doesn't mean I let it slip a couple of times. Sometimes it's better to let them know what you're feeling and that it will end and you'll be ok afterwards.

I know it doesn't sound like she has Cushing's. High cortisol (prednisone) is the best treatment for a pup that won't eat. What are her other symptoms besides the inappetence?

~Kat

[SandyH]

Cockers are prone to IMHA(Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia). I never heard of this disease until I lost my 2 yr old cocker to it. I have 3 cockers and have become quite educated on this disease, unfortunately. While you did not post actual numbers you did mention low HCT(hematocrit) which could indicate this. You can google it and read up on this. Easy way to check is to check her gums. If she is black and has black gums then check her tongue color. Gums and tongue should be nice and pink, pale/white gums indicate anemia.
Hoping for the best from one cocker wigglebutt owner to another.

[roseiswild]

molly muffin, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a low sugar level wasn't helping in the slightest. So far, the vitamins and increased sugar level seem to really be improving things.

Kat, thank you for sharing that. I really thought I was doing something strange. I'm sorry you're going through it, too. It really sucks.

I feel just terrible for this poor dog.
They seemed so sure about the Cushing's diagnosis. Her symptoms for Cushing's - pot belly; a lot of panting, drinking, urine; she would eat others food sometimes; overweight; little bumps on the skin (but I don't know that they are the correct ones); couple fatty patches (but they don't seem to be in the right place). Admittedly, her energy level had gone down over the years, but - she's 14 with some arthritis. I don't know if they counted lowered energy, but I probably wouldn't.
Unless there are things not on the list I have, that's about it - without lab stuff. Though, this list... it seems like these could be caused by a lot of things. Or, nothing really.

Without lab stuff - the difference in symptoms is basically inappetence, a bum leg, and tiredness. I mean... She had diarrhea only twice while she's been with me at home. She hasn't vomited the whole time. (Unless she did at the vet and they didn't tell me.) I don't even remember the last time she pupchucked. Her not wanting to get up at a certain time, or being active (restless?) at the wrong time of day, are mostly to do with the fact that she can't tell what time it is.
Before I took her to the vet the first time: she hadn't stopped eating - she was picky, but she ate; she was still walking around the yard, house, deck just fine; and whatever noise she made about anything was the same as always. She hasn't cried or anything. If she were human, I would probably say that she has a really bad cold or something and just plain feels like crap.
Right now, I'm not sure if this dog ever had Cushing's, or pancreatitis.

I can't remember what they said they gave her at the vet to try to get her to eat. It's not on the paperwork I have. I am fairly certain they didn't feed her if she didn't eat on her own.

SandyH, I'm so sorry you lost your sweet baby.

My family has had cockers for decades, and I have never heard about that about them. Definitely not an awesome thing, but good to know. Thank you.
I am a little familiar with human IMHA, but didn't know dogs got the same thing... just assumed they could probably get something similar. I did ask the vet about such a possibility when I called, but she didn't respond to it any differently than any other possibility I threw at her. They didn't mention checking her spleen, or doing a Coombs' test (do they do that for dogs?)... I'll certainly be looking up the dog IMHA. Tonight? Today? Today.

[molly muffin]

I just have a moment but yes they can run a Coombs test on dogs.

She probably does feel like crud, poor baby.

It sounds like you have alternatives to the honey. Just try maybe a rub on her gums even.

[roseiswild]

So, it's Friday morning and we are at the vet again. Why? Because I may not know whatever else is going on, but I know abscess drainage when I see it.

Me - completely freaked out. Dog - like she's relieved.

We see the vet (different vet than her regular vet) and he confirms abscess. He and the tech take her back to clip her hair down and assess the situation. Tech comes back with my baby, tells me a lot came out. I tell her a lot already came out, she just looks at me weird. The vet comes back and starts asking me about other dogs. It's not just one abscess - it's several.

She was bit! Somebody bit my baby!

[roseiswild]

(Let me try that again. Now that I've calmed down some.)

Somewhere, somehow, my dog has been bit by another dog, and has terribly abscessed wounds from it.

Needless to say, but I'm really upset about this. They are definitely dog bites, and there are several pretty significant holes oozing in her leg. I'm not clear on how this happened, but it is the same leg that suddenly had a torn ligament. It that how that happened? Why wouldn't anybody say or do anything about it?
I feel so guilty that I haven't been checking her as thoroughly as I usually do because she's been going to the vet so much and they've been examining her. (I know - I will never know if it would have made any difference, why/who would I even think to check for such a thing... but I should have checked her anyway, and I am so mad and disappointed with myself that I didn't.)
She is most certainly in a much better mood than I am... She seems strangely happy about the situation. I suppose it feels a bit better that it's draining and the pressure is off.

They gave me more antibiotics and probiotics, and I have several weeks of refills on those. I've continued giving her the vitamins and rotating through the various sweets (still giving her her pills and hydration treatments, of course), but the infection is really bad. I've gone through a lot of washcloths already.
She is more interested in food, but unable to eat on her own, so I am going to try -slowly- feeding her more (like, down the throat feeding). I think she needs more help, but the vet didn't suggest doing anything more than what he did, and I'm already doing more than he suggested I do. I called my helper and she's very much against taking her to a specialist, or taking her back to the hospital even. She, for some reason, suddenly doesn't understand how bacteria works, and keeps talking about how the dog has had her shots. This dog needs a miracle. This is just unreal.


*Her gums are one of the weird things to me. They have been telling me she's anemic over and over, and her blood-work does show that her numbers are a bit under, but every time I have checked her gums - they haven't been pale. Even while she was at the hospital and I was visiting -they were pink or red. Sometimes redder or pinker than other times, but never actually pale. They have been the lightest after she's been sleeping deeply for a while, but... it really takes a while, and once she wakes up, or gets more air going, or gets moving - they're red as ever. (I've been told this can be a side effect of her pain meds., effect of shallow-breathing, deep sleep.)
Right now is the first time I've actually been concerned about the colour of her gums this whole time. I don't even begin to know what to make of that.

*I have been using the honey, molasses, and agave in kind of a rotation, since they each have their own benefits and drawbacks, and trying to make sure I balance them out properly with the vitamin squeeze stuff and her food. I know that's a lot of math, and I have no idea if that's what I'm supposed to be doing, but I wanted to avoid sugar spikes or crashes, or her getting too much of any particular vitamin that could cause a problem.
That really seemed important before... I'm not nearly so concerned about that now.