Our Silver Belle Labrador~Athena has crossed the Rainbow Bridge

[labblab]

How I wish I could just reach out and give you guys a big hug!!! At least I hope you can “sense” my arms around you from a distance!

I’m so glad to hear that things seem a little bit brighter this morning, and I sure hope that continues. I do have one suggestion as far as a temporary ramp. My 75-lb. Lab girl who passed away three years ago suffered from severe mobility issues at the end, and we were able to help her maneuver our steps with a ramp from this company:

https://store.petsafe.net/deluxe-telescoping-pet-ramp

Unlike lots of ramps that fold, this ramp “telescopes” and I think that may make it sturdier. Plus you can adjust the length, and thus the steepness, to fit a variety of heights. You’ll see the ramp comes in two sizes, so that also offers additional flexibility. Hopefully you might find it in a store so you could actually eyeball it in person. If you like it, you can then search for the best price on the internet — multiple sites offer it. I’m sure there are other good choices out there, too, but I just wanted to mention this ramp since we’ve had personal experience with it for a big dog.

As far as the SARDS, no, I don’t think it makes any big difference for you to pursue a definite diagnosis now since it couldn’t be reversed even if it was the cause. Also, since Athena’s Cushing’s was diagnosed so long ago, I wouldn’t question whether or not she truly has Cushing’s. That question comes up for us when newbies arrive here with questions about dogs who have just very recently lost their vision and also simultaneously first started to exhibit Cushing’s-like symptoms. In some cases, dogs with SARDS do also get diagnosed with Cushing’s, too. In other instances, sometimes all the symptoms except for the vision loss begin to ease after a couple of months, so the possibility arises that some other hormonal imbalance is at play. But in Athena’s case, she was legitimately diagnosed with Cushing’s a long time ago, so I don’t think there’s really any value in pursuing the SARDS diagnosis further now.

OK, continued best wishes to you and all your family — and especially sweet Athena!
Marianne

P.S. I just checked the dimensions of our ramp, and it’s the “Medium” which is the smaller and less expensive of the two sizes. It worked fine for us because we only had a couple of steps to deal with, plus Peg had her vision so she could easily see the sides. It might be all you’d need for Athena, too, but it’s good that the “Extra Large” is also an option for folks to consider if they’re interested in this brand of ramp.

[WeLoveAthena]

Athena has taken a turn for the worse. Every time we hope and it gets a little better
BOOM
Just returned from Vet. Getting her settled
Update to follow. Happened in a matter of an hour
:-(

[labblab]

Oh no! :-(((((((((((((((

We’re right here alongside you, awaiting word whenever you have the chance to post more.

Holding you all in my heart,
Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Here with you all the way.

Hugs,
Leslie

[WeLoveAthena]

**UPDATE**

July 1st I had a medical appt. My hubby stayed with Athena. They were laying together when I left. She was fine. I even snapped a pic of her. For some reason I didn't want to go to my appt but I had to and so I went on. J assured me they would be fine. He hadn't slept well most of the night before ( combat wounded Marine- long lasting effects of injuries) so he was going to lay with Athena and just grab a nap while I ran to my doc appt. Athena had been fed, had insulin and her pain meds. No doubt she would drift off and nap with him. She loves that.

I wasn't gone no more than 90 mins. I noticed I had a missed call from J and when I tried to call him back there was no answer. Of course I was worried but got right home
J said that Athena woke him up pressing her nose in his arm. She does that at times when she want's to go out but he said he noticed her right eye didn't seem right. She couldn't open it and her left eye was showing the third eyelid. Soon as I got there I saw it. We thought maybe she got up, walked around and injured herself while J had been sleeping near her. She was walking with her head at an odd angle and not wanting to open her eyes. We scooped her up and I ran her to the vet.

Our regular vet who is awesome wasn't there so we had to see the other vet ( not much of a fan but it's all we had). Brought her in and she didn't really even look at her and said that she is just going through 'the normal progression of the disease of Cushings/Diabetes". I said "Yes I know but something is wrong with her can we test her eyes to see if she has any injury to them". So they did a stain ( I had to ask for it). Nothing came up. No injury. She placed her on an eye drop antibiotic ( wasn't aware she had an infection) and said that if we wanted a 2nd opinion we could come back the next day to see our regular vet. I wanted to have a meltdown!! Our regular vet is amazing and would have done much more. I left after not being able to get this vet to comprehend something was not right. So I raced home with Athena who by now was not well at all. It was hot out, and no amount of AC was helping her. Got her home ( J had stayed home with our other dog and I ran her to the Vet). I got home and he got her out of the truck. She will not get into and out of the truck. We have to lift her to get her in due to her hind legs being weakened and now with no eyesight it's worse.

We were both very upset between me feeling bad for going to that appt, J falling asleep with her and he felt like he should have stayed up but who could have known this would happen. So our next move was to call a hospice vet we know very well. She's always been good to us and she was the one that helped our oldest dog cross the rainbow bridge 3 years ago.

Explained everything to her, sent her pictures, etc. She promptly responded by calling
She said this is something she's seen in dogs with Cushings and Diabetes. It has to do with the effects of the nerves as they do generate deposits of calcification like material on the nerves. It's neurological decompensation She thinks she had like a mini stroke or a small clot but while we were waiting for her to call poor Athena seemed miserable. We fed her by hand in order to give her some pain meds which seems to help her very much but we noticed each time we tried to feed her she would do this involuntary head tilt to the left several times in a row. As if when she attempted to open her mouth her head would tilt to the left. Her eyes looked horrible.

The hospice vet was talking us through a few things and we had pretty much done them all. She was going to head over in a few hours ( she lives about an hour from here and the emergency vet here isn't open until after 6pm you have to utilize your vet before that and we had zero luck with that other vet).

Within 30 mins from that phone call with the hospice vet Athena suddenly returned to normal. Just her normal eyes that can't see, no more head tilts, she had her personality back and we were stunned. She was tired and slept most of the day but when she was awake to go out and also when fed her and did meds she was good.

Called the hospice vet back and she said that was VERY good. We sent her a new picture to show her the difference. She has always known Athena to be a tough cookie and so amazing. Athena bounced right back ah inch the hospice vet said was really good because sometimes it can take a few days and sometime they don't return to their normal self.

Since then we've not seen her do anything like whatever that was....We did talk to our normal vet the very next day as well and she is seeing Athena tomorrow for an exam.

We really thought that was it...that we were going to lose her...and had to prepare for that...it was heartbreaking and shocking all at once however like in true Athena form she bounced back as if nothing happened.

The hospice vet is gone for 5 days but will call when she returns. At that point she had told us she supported us if we felt it was time to let Athena go and anytime we do because sadly Athena will just progress and nothing is reversible. This we know all too well. Right now however it's not the time and she agreed that since she bounced back Athena is not ready and so we are enjoy, as always, every minute with her.

We are always with her and this one time that this happened so fast one of us was asleep and I was at an appt. You can't imagine how awful we feel but right now we have to focus on Athena and getting her through....the reality of losing her hit so hard especially after just losing our beloved boy in December. It was so overwhelming. I laid on her bed with her all night last night.

Our reg vet said this may be a few things and she feels we can safely treat Athena to prevent another one of these episodes.( once we verify what this is exactly) but it could happen again. We are just concerned because we don't want her going out of this world in a bad way. We want her to go with the grace and dignity she's always carried in herself and her strong beautiful ways.

She's doing good on the deck stairs ( we are near her of course) and we notice by the evening are when she has a few missteps due to being tired or sore which it's generally when it's time to dose her and feed her.

We are using our voice and a few commands we taught her that she basically learned overnight...such a smart cookie. She always comes to my voice when it's time to come up the 3 deck stairs. She's so funny. J loves how her ears become very alert, she wags her tail and follows my voice. We always encourage her when she gets to the top. There have been a few times J had to pick her up- and she's a big lab but it's when she's just not wanting to get up the deck stairs. We will be moving soon to our perm home. It's concerning as if she makes it that far she will have to learn everything again. We hate that for her but we were only here temporarily. This will be our perm home with ramps and all ( because even J and I need them. Yes, we are mess but we make a beautiful little family and have overcome so much we've been through in war and all and our dogs are everything to us)

I don't know how to post pics in a thread to show you what we're talking about with how she was that day but maybe the description is enough.

We never used the eye antibiotics. She didn't need them. So since then Athena has been playing, eating well, taking her meds, happy and doing well but we don't know for how long that will last as this thing came out of nowhere and we're both so upset neither of us saw the onset.

I watched her and J in the yard last night. Those are the moments that cause the tears to fall. Seeing them walk together. How he helps steer her if she's headed too close to a tree or something. She has always been our faithful friend, protector and just an amazing girl. We know she's never really been the same after losing our boy in December. They were very close. Our other doggy is the wild child and she can't be around Athena much especially now but they are amazing creatures that we feel so lucky to have in our lives. Once of us is always with one of the dogs. It sounds crazy to most but it's our life and we love it.

The reality of losing her is hitting hard. We know it's coming. I just feel it. It goes so fast....we knew she'd never be that 12 year old lab but she's still young and that's the hard part but she's packed a ton of life in those years..
I don't let her see me upset. Neither does J because she's so in tune to us and we don't want her to be worried. She's the resident Nurse too. Always checking on everyone else.

Sorry I'm rambling again. Just wish we knew what did this but hopefully tomorrow brings some more answers...when the time comes to let her go our hospice vet will come to the house. Athena hates going to the vet hospital ( bad experience at our old vet changed her) and although she loves our vet now with Athena we will bring the hospice vet to the house where she's comfortable then off to the awesome place that took care of our two older doggies but we hope we don't have to for awhile.... Lately Athena has been laying right next to their urns.

As far as what happened has anyone heard of anything like this before?

Any thoughts?

[labblab]

I’m so sorry for my delay in having a chance to reply, but I’ve now read everything you’ve described. Once again, I’m so deeply touched by your devotion to your dogs, and especially by your tender attention to Athena in her hour of need. I’m afraid that, otherwise, my posting here will be short because I truly don’t know what might have been going on with that very weird episode. I just hope it was a “one-off” and won’t ever happen again!!

Otherwise, it sounds as though you guys are doing an exceptional job of helping her adjust to her new routine — and of surrounding her with love. That has to be the best medicine of all. So I’ll keep my fingers crossed that everything remains stable for now, and please do continue to keep us updated.

Marianne

[WeLoveAthena]

Note to Mod: How do I change the heading on my old thread if you merge this one with it? Thanks


UPDATE

Hello to all on the K9 Site
So....we took Athena into her regular Vet on Friday for an appointment. Normally she's very stressed at the vet but she did great. She was calm and didn't mind a puppy coming up to her to lick her in the face. It was so sweet. Everyone in the waiting room swooned over Athena. It was truly sweet to see. Not many see a Silver Lab in person.
Anyway...we went back and saw our regular vet who has been treating Athena. By now Athena was past her crisis and so the vet did an extensive and detailed exam of her whole body and eyes. Her right eye is all the way blind but her left eye still has some sight left in it. There are cataracts but she can see around the one in the left but she did great on her exam. She has pretty awful stifle in her left rear leg which we knew about but it seems worse. This is due to a bad vet who diagnosed her as a puppy as having a "muscle strain" when we brought her in thinking she injured her leg playing but they insisted it was nothing to worry about even after an X-ray. It didn't get better and we brought her back and saw their lead vet ( this again was our old useless vet hospital we used to go to) and he said the same thing..muscle strain.. WRONG... Years later with our new vet in place we find out Athena more than like blew her ACL and you can't imagine what that did to use to hear that. We would have treated her with it as a puppy when she would have been able to sustain a surgery. Now it's too late. So it healed wrong, and she over compensated with her right leg but we were always told the legs were due to Cushings. Thankfully we are in good hands now since last fall with our new vet. The only thing we've been doing is treating her pain but the vet would like us to try a round of Adequan injections and feels this is something Athena will greatly benefit from and is able to do. We are going to do it.
The crisis she had with her eyes, her head tilts, etc. was a vestibular crisis but not due to her ears or anything like that. More than likely from the Cushings and the neurological decompensation and calcification on the nerves but the good thing in this is she bounded back remarkably fast which most take a few days and some take weeks. For Athena it was hours...and she's been okay ever since.

We thought we had lost her..or were going to have to let her go but the vet said she's got plenty of life left and we saw it the other day when she found her stuffed animals and was playing again. Even though she can't see...she's back to playing and being her strong silly self. What a relief. Our vet said she understands how we felt that way because it's very scary to see a dog go through that but we did the right things by giving her some food, pain med and her Cerenia for possible nausea..and that may have just saved her and let her bounce back so fast. Whew.....

Reality that the Cushings is advanced in her young body and she can't seem to get as stable as she should be with the diabetes. She could have another attack like this again and it could be worse and would render her in worse shape...at that point decisions would be made. We will NEVER allow her to suffer or live a diminished quality of life and we can't do any surgery, nor would we for any reason at her age and health status.

The one thing right now that is really overwhelming is her insulin which I plan to call the vet back on Monday to ask about. Athena is on Humlin NPH by Eli Lilley and it's nearly $200 a vile now and she needs two a month on top of her pain meds, RC food, and now the Adequan which we want her to have to help those back legs be stronger to deal with her blindness...it's just overwhelming. We would go into hawk for our dogs but we want to know if there is another insulin that wouldn't drain the piggy bank as bad. The pharmacist even asked up ( because we get it at the pharmacy) why she isn't on several others available that are 1/3 of the cost and just as effective.

Does anyone here have a dual diagnosis dog with Cush/Diabetes? What type of insulin are they on? Anyone on this type? At the time she was placed on it we went along with it thinking it was the best and because she had unstable Cushings due to not tolerating Veteryol that almost killed her ( she's on a compound version now)

We want to ask the vet would it be a huge ordeal to change her from this one to another insulin because this one hasn't really stabilized her as best as can be in the last 6 mos since her diagnosis.

Our vet is one that would never make us do something to just do it. This vet hospital is unlike our previous one that guilted you into everything, made you do stuff that was not needed, and had a 300 percent markup on everything. This vet now is awesome, and there is a military discount and they really go above and beyond but right now everything is adding up so much due to the insulin....

Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

Thanks so much

Moderators: Prefer to stay on the Cushings side of the house. We were on the diabetes end for a bit but there were a few folks there that were not easy to deal with and it totally different than the Cushings crew.. THANKS :-)


Athena's current meds: Humlin NPH 30 units Q12 hours with food
Gabapenten, Carprofen for pain with intermittent Tramadol PRN
Trilostane q12 hours 1/3 flex tab Compund Version ( cannot tolerate Veteroyl
Name brand). Cerenia PRN. RC Glycobalance food
July 8th will start loading dose of Adequan for rear legs

[Squirt's Mom]

I have once again merged your latest thread into Athena's original thread. We like to keep all posts about each dog in one thread. That way it is easier to keep up with the history for that dog. Thank you for your cooperation in the future.

You are more than welcome to talk about her diabetes here in the Cushing's site however we are not the experts on that disease and you will not get many replies on Diabetes...we simply don't know. Our forte' is Cushing's, theirs is Diabetes. You will be shorting yourself by leaving the diabetes forum for us. If you just don't like that forum you can try some of the Facebook groups if you are on Facebook. BUT again you will be shorting yourself because FB groups are filled with misinformation, opinion presented as fact, and pure nonsense. So the best bet, even tho you may not like everyone there, is to stick with K9Diabetes. If you are having particular problems with certain individuals who are being rude, dismissive, etc. then contact one of the Admins there and let them know.

I have had several dogs with Vestibular and if you search that condition here you will find that several others have as well. What I have seen in mine was that it came on very quickly with circling to one side or the other for weeks and when that got better they still didn't move forward in a straight line - they moved, or actually staggered, sideways, circling from time to time. Nausea was a big part of it for all of them which resulted in a loss of appetite. In the dogs who had eyeballs the eyes move side to side very rapidly - this is the hallmark of Vestibular according to our vets. It took months before any of them were right again. Athena's case is very different from any I remember reading about or seen in my own. She is lucky it left as quickly as it did!

As for switching insulin - I won't even attempt to discuss that or anything about diabetes treatment. I was just diagnosed as Type II and it is a very difficult disease to get a handle on and control. In humans there is no one path, no one diet, no one treatment that works for all - it is widely varied. And from the little I know about canine diabetes the same is true for them. I have no first hand knowledge or experience so I can't in good conscience offer guidance on that disease. Again, I strongly recommend sticking with the diabetes forum.

But I CAN change her thread title and will be glad to do so!
Hugs,
Leslie

[WeLoveAthena]

I have once again merged your latest thread into Athena's original thread. We like to keep all posts about each dog in one thread. That way it is easier to keep up with the history for that dog. Thank you for your cooperation in the future.

You are more than welcome to talk about her diabetes here in the Cushing's site however we are not the experts on that disease and you will not get many replies on Diabetes...we simply don't know. Our forte' is Cushing's, theirs is Diabetes. You will be shorting yourself by leaving the diabetes forum for us. If you just don't like that forum you can try some of the Facebook groups if you are on Facebook. BUT again you will be shorting yourself because FB groups are filled with misinformation, opinion presented as fact, and pure nonsense. So the best bet, even tho you may not like everyone there, is to stick with K9Diabetes. If you are having particular problems with certain individuals who are being rude, dismissive, etc. then contact one of the Admins there and let them know.

I have had several dogs with Vestibular and if you search that condition here you will find that several others have as well. What I have seen in mine was that it came on very quickly with circling to one side or the other for weeks and when that got better they still didn't move forward in a straight line - they moved, or actually staggered, sideways, circling from time to time. Nausea was a big part of it for all of them which resulted in a loss of appetite. In the dogs who had eyeballs the eyes move side to side very rapidly - this is the hallmark of Vestibular according to our vets. It took months before any of them were right again. Athena's case is very different from any I remember reading about or seen in my own. She is lucky it left as quickly as it did!

As for switching insulin - I won't even attempt to discuss that or anything about diabetes treatment. I was just diagnosed as Type II and it is a very difficult disease to get a handle on and control. In humans there is no one path, no one diet, no one treatment that works for all - it is widely varied. And from the little I know about canine diabetes the same is true for them. I have no first hand knowledge or experience so I can't in good conscience offer guidance on that disease. Again, I strongly recommend sticking with the diabetes forum.

But I CAN change her thread title and will be glad to do so!
Hugs,
Leslie

Hi Leslie
Thank you for merging everything yes if you could just change the subject line for us to update just that word would be great instead of with the original title was on the original post

Unfortunately there was a particular individual that kept showing up in my posts on the diabetes site that was just downright annoying no matter what we said they just came back with such annoying irritating and aggravating posts

In the middle of dealing with all this effort last thing you want to hear while I don’t mind constructive criticism or opinions I believe that there’s a way to be kind and tactful about it and not downright annoying

This person just thought they knew everything and while they may have known a lot they were very obnoxious to the point that I asked for a thread to be removed from the diabetes site

Other than this forum we don’t do any social media we’ve never had a Facebook Twitter or any of those things and never will

we just feel like those places are a three ring circus :-)

Yes I Thena recovering very quickly from her crisis which we are so thankful for and the vet was amazed but we are always amazed at how strong this sweet lab is. She’s a strong soul that overcomes so many things today it’s just wonderful to watch her play and be happy considering how bad she was the other day where we thought we were actually going to lose her

I’m going to call the vet tomorrow about her insulin. I spoke with two pharmacists that are very much dog advocates and felt that Athena would be fine on a different insulin that wasn’t so outrageously overpriced and believe me they were kind enough to give us discounts and still it’s over the top $$$&& but they didn’t see why she had to be on the specific name brand insulin. So we will be checking on that tomorrow but on top of that Athena hasn’t really been stabilized with her numbers even though they say not to worry too much about that and more how she feels

Right now getting the Cushing’s regulated is what we’re working on. It was going well now it’s not she’s on a compound version of her Cushing’s medicine that may need it dose increase the vet believes that’s what needs to be under control for her to respond better to her diabetes treatment

[Katy1]

Hi,

I also have a dual diagnosis pup. Annie is a 10 year old miniature schnauzer who has been diabetic for over a year and was diagnosed with cushings in February of this year.

I share your frustration with the k9 diabetes forum and I’ll leave it at that. As far as insulin goes, Annie has always been on Novolin N—that’s what it says on the box and we buy it at Walmart for 26.00 a bottle—-no kidding. We started off buying it at CVS but were paying 120.00 for it there. We found out about the Walmart price by accident.

Uncontrolled cushings has a direct effect on how insulin works or doesn’t in dogs but you should probably talk to your vet about that. I hope this has helped a little. Blessings to you and Athena. Karen