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Thread: Lola's tentative pheo diagnosis

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Lola's tentative pheo diagnosis

    Quote Originally Posted by Erika L. View Post
    One question for those who have lived with pheos. The doc has me on the lookout for symptomatic behavior (ravenously hungry or thirsty, lethargic, etc.). Since Lola is an English Bulldog she is always extremely hungry or thirsty and has a tendency to fluctuate between lethargic and ridiculously hyper (which causes her to pant a lot). When I mentioned this to the vet she told me, "You are looking for behaviors that are uncharacteristic for her. You'll know them when you see them."

    Do those of you who have dealt with this condition agree with her assessment. As it is anytime she begs for food as if she's starving to death (completely normal for her), is taking a nap, or begins to pant after playing, I get a sick feeling in my stomach and wonder if this is actually something I should be "noticing".
    Annie's symptoms included lethargy at times but the ones that were most noticeable were full body shaking (like shivering) - it came and went. I now know it was because the tumor was active (they are usually dormant and when they excrete the 'adrenaline' they are active). At times she panted heavily and on about 5 occasions in 2 years her heart raced so fast and her breathing was so fast I could not simulate it myself.

    After the episodes I noticed her skin was bright pink/reddish. (blood flow) and her skin was damp (sweat) She usually napped or laid with her eyes closed afterwards. (I read they could get migraines from the blood rush)

    She also would not eat. She wanted to but it was as if she had nausea. She would run to the bowl take a bite and spit it out or sniff and turn her head. She would usually eat a different type/flavor of dog food after several attempts and she ate well then. But there was no pattern I could ever find of why she wouldn't eat that particular flavor that day. I often opened 5 different flavors of dog food in a day. She quit eating all human foods she used to love like cheese, peanutbutter, eggs - you name it. It was quite stressful.

    That and the adrenaline caused her to lose weight. She went from 18 lbs down to less than 11 lbs. She was a walking skeleton. she also lost alot of her hair - I didn't notice it at first - I thought the groomer was shaving her too close.

    She too had an enflamed vulva. That and the hair loss I believe are from elevated sex hormones as a result of the pheo.

    Re the test you described to rule it a pheo - we have read about it and some have had it done. I think the reason the vets are still not convinced is because they have found that it isn't 100% accurate.

    In the early stages my dog was a very normal looking dog also. My only signs were the full body shaking and then I noticed the skin/sweat. That and the heavy panting (more than normal) would be what I would be on the lookout for.

    That said - I don't think Trish's Flynn had the same symptoms that I did. Hang in there - it is a tough journey but at least there are some of us with experience now. 4 years ago I about drove this board crazy (she was misdiagnosed as having cushings)

    Take care, Kim

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Lola's tentative pheo diagnosis

    Renee, Lola's "brother" is 1/2 Pug and 1/2 English bulldog. He looks like a giant pug with a very broad chest. He's a handsome guy. . Pugs are the most wonderful little spirits. Is that her in your meme? She's adorable. I'd like to put Lola's pic up as mine, where do I go to upload her?

    These examples of abnormal behavior make a lot of sense; things big or small that just register as abnormal, odd, or just out of character. I'm pretty certain that right now I'm over analyzing everything I see.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Lola's tentative pheo diagnosis

    Annie is the one in the background. Haley is in the front. Haley had cushings and that's how i found this group over 8 yrs ago! Sigh.. I understand over thinking things. Hang in there.

    Here is a link on how to post a photo/create an avatar. Kim


    http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5555

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Lola's tentative pheo diagnosis

    Quote Originally Posted by Renee View Post
    I have pugs, and much like english bulldogs, they are ALWAYS hungry. And can be very lethargic all day and night. Even so, I could tell, and I think you will be able to tell too. Just watch the subtle differences. My girl never, ever bit me to get food... when her cushings was very bad untreated, she was so hungry, she would bite me taking a treat. And she started getting in the trash (or trying to), which she never did before.
    Quote Originally Posted by frijole View Post
    Annie's symptoms included lethargy at times but the ones that were most noticeable were full body shaking (like shivering) - it came and went. I now know it was because the tumor was active (they are usually dormant and when they excrete the 'adrenaline' they are active). At times she panted heavily and on about 5 occasions in 2 years her heart raced so fast and her breathing was so fast I could not simulate it myself.

    After the episodes I noticed her skin was bright pink/reddish. (blood flow) and her skin was damp (sweat) She usually napped or laid with her eyes closed afterwards. (I read they could get migraines from the blood rush)

    She also would not eat. She wanted to but it was as if she had nausea. She would run to the bowl take a bite and spit it out or sniff and turn her head. She would usually eat a different type/flavor of dog food after several attempts and she ate well then. But there was no pattern I could ever find of why she wouldn't eat that particular flavor that day. I often opened 5 different flavors of dog food in a day. She quit eating all human foods she used to love like cheese, peanutbutter, eggs - you name it. It was quite stressful.

    That and the adrenaline caused her to lose weight. She went from 18 lbs down to less than 11 lbs. She was a walking skeleton. she also lost alot of her hair - I didn't notice it at first - I thought the groomer was shaving her too close.

    She too had an enflamed vulva. That and the hair loss I believe are from elevated sex hormones as a result of the pheo.

    Re the test you described to rule it a pheo - we have read about it and some have had it done. I think the reason the vets are still not convinced is because they have found that it isn't 100% accurate.

    In the early stages my dog was a very normal looking dog also. My only signs were the full body shaking and then I noticed the skin/sweat. That and the heavy panting (more than normal) would be what I would be on the lookout for.

    That said - I don't think Trish's Flynn had the same symptoms that I did. Hang in there - it is a tough journey but at least there are some of us with experience now. 4 years ago I about drove this board crazy (she was misdiagnosed as having cushings)

    Take care, Kim
    Gosh Kim that sounds just awful. It seems like a pheo is one of the worst things a dog can be diagnosed with. I'm so thankful to have found a support group as none of my friends have ever heard of it and are obviously confused about what to say or what kind of advice to offer.

    Was Annie's swollen vulva something she had all her life? When I told the vet that Lola's has been swollen since she was about 6 months old she speculated that there was a chance that the tumor has been there since she was a puppy; she didn't think it was likely, but it was possible.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Lola's tentative pheo diagnosis

    Quote Originally Posted by Erika L. View Post
    One question for those who have lived with pheos. The doc has me on the lookout for symptomatic behavior (ravenously hungry or thirsty, lethargic, etc.). Since Lola is an English Bulldog she is always extremely hungry or thirsty and has a tendency to fluctuate between lethargic and ridiculously hyper (which causes her to pant a lot). When I mentioned this to the vet she told me, "You are looking for behaviors that are uncharacteristic for her. You'll know them when you see them."
    Hi Erika - if you go back to the first page of Flynn's thread I go over the symptoms he had when first diagnosed http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4242

    I had written.... "Flynn had nondescript symptoms that included weight gain we thought because of his ravenous appetite so put him on a diet, less energy, panting when stressed ie if we were eating, lipomas removed a year prior but mainly all back again, pot belly, shaky like a lot of foxies and he has always done this but it is much more pronounced, not so good at jumping"

    Another big one for him was hypertension, caused by the cathecholoamines like adrenaline that the pheo secretes. They can do this even when they are teeny tiny which made his diagnosis difficult, he had four scans including a CT before they finally found it and in that year to 18 months it had grown into his vena cava. Don't worry too much about it being on the right, our surgeon said that while it is a bit more fiddly to get to the right side and remove, it did not impact on mortality in the cases he had done

    I had a google on that UC Davis study you mentioned that was published last year and wonder if this is the one, Dr Feldman who is known here by a few of the members is one of the authors: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...vim.12027/full it will be interesting to hear back from your vets if this is the blood test they are used. The full study is available to read, but it is a fairly heavy going . But interesting nonetheless! Plus it is great to see more studies coming out that will help with diagnosis of adrenal tumours. I saw it was first presented at a veterinary conference in 2006, so the info has been around a while but it still does not seem to be routinely used by specialist vets and I wonder if it is because of the small numbers in the study.
    Stop worrying about what can go wrong and start getting excited about what can go right!

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Lola's tentative pheo diagnosis

    Erika, I have to be out today but wanted to get back to you just to let you know that while those symptoms sound just awful I feel Annie's quality of life was quite good despite. Otherwise I would have let her go earlier. I never heard her whimper or whine as if in pain. I think it was harder on me than on her. There are other potential pheo candidates on the forum right now that are going through the same thing so you truly are not alone. Hang in there, Kim

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Lola's tentative pheo diagnosis

    Trish, although I can't remember the names of the authors or the study itself, this looks to be the one. And yes, I think the small sample size is one of the stumbling blocks for the reliability of the study. I was very pleased about having the test for Lola not just for what it could tell us about her, but I'm fairly certain that they will be using her results to help further the study. If she has to go through all of this, the knowledge that it can help further this important research is nice.

    Kim, I'm super heartened to hear about quality of life with this dreadful disease. Of course the most I can hope for is that this isn't what it appears to be an it's some innocuous blob. But, if that is not the case what I want most for Lola is quality of life: whether she has 8 months, or 8 years of it.

    In the past I have gone through 'heroic gestures' to save my animals. Of course hindsight is always 20/20, but I think in some cases I made their lives worse rather than better while they were here. I have already had discussions with some close friends who also love Lola. I have asked them to be very honest with me about what they see in Lola's quality of life as time goes on. I can't quite bear to write why as my eyes are brimming with tears right now, but I'm sure you get it.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Lola's tentative pheo diagnosis

    I can definitely relate, as I have just learned that what I thought was Cushing's is actually pheo. (Incidentally, I am very glad to have found a forum where pheo is being discussed.)

    My Kenai, a 14-year-old husky mix, has a tumor on his right adrenal gland. This was discovered over 2 years ago via ultrasound. Based on the results of his "Tennessee adrenal panel" (done at UT Knoxville), I received a diagnosis of atypical Cushing's.

    His primary symptom then was weight loss. He weighed about 45 pounds and was losing weight at a rate of 3 pounds per month. When he practically stopped eating altogether, I earnestly began my quest for answers.

    Fast-forward to now. His primary symptom is frequent urination. The ultrasound shows that the tumor and right adrenal have both enlarged since the ultrasound 2 years ago. (...a bit disappointing, since his 6-week follow-up ultrasound -- 2 years ago -- had shown that the tumor had shrunk). The low-dose dex indicated that his condition is not Cushing's. So the internist ordered a urine cortisol/creat ratio test to help determine whether the tumor is Cushing's or pheo. And the answer is pheo.

    However,... the internist is not convinced that the pheo is the cause of the frequent urination. So today we have an appointment with their Chief of Surgery.

    ...and the saga continues.

    Like yours, my dog is very happy and energetic. My neighbors are amazed when I tell them about his condition, since he looks so healthy,... especially for a 14-year-old.

    I wish you well in your journey for answers. Each day is a gift to be treasured.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Lola's tentative pheo diagnosis

    Hello Kenai's mom. I sent you a PM, but I wanted to let you know that I also copied your post into a thread of your own, where you can update and ask questions that are specific to Kenai if you like.
    We have several dogs currently with pheo diagnosis. One who has had surgery our Flynn and Trish, and an administrator Kim, whose Annie, did not have surgery, but lived many years with the pheo.

    It can be found here:

    http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6058

    welcome to the forum.
    Sharlene and Molly Muffin
    Sharlene and the late great diva - Molly muffin (always missed and never forgotten)

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