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Thread: In need of advice - Update: Norman will be crossing the Rainbow Bridge

  1. #1
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    Default In need of advice - Update: Norman will be crossing the Rainbow Bridge

    Hello, my name is Sharon, I have two puppies - Norman a 12 year old dachshund 24 pounds and Millie, a 13 year old yorkie pooh 6 pounds. A recent break-up, shortly thereafter a move, plus a tumble down a staircase created some problems for Norman. No one loves me like Norman, my mother came in a close second. Anyway, Norman started urinating as soon as he was let out the door, two steps and peed a river. He also had four urine accidents within a week. He went to the door and before I could say you want to go out, he went in front of me. This happened also with my ex BF. I knew something was wrong as Norman as he also started to drink excessively. I took him into a new vet. Loved them...they did a through exam; stool, urine sample and blood work. The vet did discussed possibilities,also mentioned that if it was cushings she wouldn't put her dog through the treatment as it is expensive and hard on the animal. Well all testing came back it looked more like cushings. (results below) I suffer from RSD/CRPS, a painful neurological condition and am on SSD ( not much income to work with) so I was grateful when the vet explained this before we knew it was cushings. However, Norman is happy and relatively active, I can not take him on long walks like he was used to with my ex BF. I walk along with him in the yard. I researched cushings on the computer as Norman's excessive water consumption and frequent urination continued. I found a supplement supraglan and ordered it as it had rave reviews. Some days and nights were better but I also noticed she was eating dirt weeds and the roots and he recently just had a tooth break out of his mouth. Norman also searched outside for any water, mud, rainfall puddles, etc. Recently, he has been wanting to go out more and more often and waking at night to go out. A real problem for me because of the medication I need to take for my neurological condition to help with sleep. I am at a loss, looking desperately for some alternative to help ease the symptoms. I can't put the one who loves me like no other down. Where do I get melatonin and Flax Husks? and how much do I give him? Please help me and I thank you for having this site...God bless you! I do not have the $600.00 for the actual testing and inital Lysodren treatment. I am looking for natural ways and hoping I can afford them....I just am not ready to put the one who loves me more than anyone down. I am alone most of my day, my family doesn't understand my medical condition and I am not able to go out because of fear of being touched and pain. I would appreciate any suggestions to help my Norman. Thank you!
    ALB 4.3
    ALP 879 high
    ALT 239 high
    AMY 460
    TBIL 0.4
    BUN 15
    CA 10.7
    PHOS 6.5
    CRE .05
    GLU 122 high
    NA+ 146
    K+ 5.2
    TP 6.7
    GLOB 2.3
    QC OK
    HEM 0
    LIP 3+
    ICT 0

  2. #2
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    Default Additional info on Norman recent diagnosis of Cushings

    I also forgot to mention Norman has had an enlarged heart (no surprise to me with all the love he gives me) for a few yeras now. He is on a half tablet of furosemide 12.5 mg twice daily.

    Moderator's note: In order to complete your registration, you need to check your emailbox (or spam folder) for a communication from us. Once you respond to that email, your membership will be finalized, and anything that you post will become visible on the the forum immediately. Until that time, your replies must be manually "approved" by a staff member before they are visible to the public -- so there may be a bit of delay between the time that you write your replies and the time that you actually see them.

    If you have already received and responded to the confirmatory email, please be patient. Your registration will be finalized shortly…Thanks!

    Also, I merged this post to your original Thread so that all information about Norman is in one place.
    Last edited by Harley PoMMom; 12-08-2012 at 08:15 PM. Reason: added something

  3. #3
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    Default Re: In need of advice for my Norman

    Hi Sharon,

    Welcome to you, Millie, and Norman! So sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but so glad you found us.

    Cushing's is one the most difficult diseases to get a confirmed diagnosis for because other non-adrenal illnesses can create false positive results on all Cushing test and not one test is 100% accurate at diagnosing this dratted disease. Also, other health issues such as diabetes and thyroid problems share some of the same symptoms as Cushing's.

    With Cushing's the initial expense is during the diagnostic phase. After a confirmed diagnosis treatment can begin and the cost does drop. The two most Rx's medicines that are used to treat Cushing's are Lysodren/Mitotane and Trilostane/Vetoryl. One can have these medicines compounded which can be a huge cost-savings.

    I wish I had better news to tell you about the supraglan. Supraglan will not lower a dog's elevated cortisol which is the problem with Cushing's disease. So please do not waste your money on this product.

    Melatonin and flax hull are the treatment for a dog that has Atypical Cushing's. Atypical Cushing's is when one or more of the sex hormones become elevated but the cortisol is not, so right now, if it were me, I would wait on buying these products too.

    Does Norman have a ravenous appetite, pot bellied appearance, or any hair-coat issues? Has the increased drinking/urinating just started recently or maybe after he started the furosemide?

    Please know we will help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask any and all questions.

    Love and hugs,
    Lori

  4. #4
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    Default Re: In need of advice for my Norman

    Thank you Harley!

    I am so grateful I have found a support site.

    The testing the Vet did orignially did not indicate diabetes or thryroid. I don't have the extra funds for the extra diagnostic treatments as I am alone and on an extremely tight budget. Not able to work, on SSD, I live penny to penny. My will to live would be gone if I had to give my dogs up since I had them as puppies. I don't have the initial $500-600 to confirm diagnostics and begin the treatment that is why I am looking for alternative treatments.

    Surpraglan seemed to have made a difference initailly. Some nights he slept through the night or only woke up once. I can handle that, but now it isnt working so I won't reorder.

    I picked up some Melatonin and Milk Thislte plus some remedy product. I don't know where to get the flax hull or I would have picked that up as well. I don't know if Norman has atypical cushings or not. I won't have the money for the diagnostic testing so I may never know.

    Norman's appetite is not as ravenous as it was most of his life. He has been on the furosemide for about three years. the excessive thirst/excessive urination began this Aug/Sept. He is always serching for water or anything to drink including his own urine. Not waiting unti he reaches grass. Two steps out the door and he goes. He has had a toyal of five accidents since Aug. He has had the pot bellie appearance and his hair/coat is thinning for some time 6 months maybe. I just thought it was because of his appetite.

    I wonder if I should give him only one does of the furosemide. My old vet said it would be alright but it would shorten his life span. maybe he would not have the other problems though??? I don't know, I do know I can't keep going with him waking me throughout the night, however, I just can't have him put down because I he wakes me up. He never left my side through my cancer treatments and truly loves me more than anyone on this Earth.

    Thank you for your support and any information/suggestions you may have. Sharon, Norman and Millie
    Last edited by NoonelovesmelikeNorman; 12-09-2012 at 12:04 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: In need of advice for my Norman

    Thanks again Lori! I am wondering if I can post a picture of Norman and how to do that? I am so grateful for this site, thank you and everyone invovled. As Norman's condition evolves I have a feeling I will feel the strength to do what it best but hope that will be far in the future and that I learn and am able to help others as I learn. It is a true blessing. Peace and gentle Hugs, Sharon

  6. #6
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    Default Re: In need of advice for my Norman

    Hi Sharon and welcome from me too. I am sorry you and Norman are having these troubles.

    Lori has started you off nicely. I did want to add that if your vet does not want to put him through any treatment, I would find a new vet. Many dogs live out their normal lifespan even with Cushing's with proper treatment and monitoring. It could be that your vet has no experience in this. Are you near a teaching vet facility? This could offer a cheaper way to go through the diagnosis process. One cannot diagnose Cushing's with just a blood panel and the symptom of increase urination and water consumption. There are several addition tests that need to be done (LDDS, ACTH and an abdominal ultrasound).

    There is an inexpensive test that can rule out Cushing's and that is a UC:CR and it is explained further in this link - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180.

    Did your vet say anything about a urinary tract infection?

    The results you posted indicate high liver values (ALP, ALD) as well as slightly high glucose levels (122). These could be associated with a number of conditions.

    What did you vet indicate could be causing these other than Cushing's.

    I know we ask a lot of questions here. But know we are here to help.

    Also, here is a link to financial resources that may help you - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212


    Keep us posted
    Terry
    Last edited by mytil; 12-09-2012 at 05:37 AM. Reason: fixed link

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    Default Re: In need of advice for my Norman

    Oh sorry forget about the photos.

    Here are the instructions for uploading an avatar - The picture beside your username.

    Go to your "User CP" (upper left corner)

    Then, click on "Edit Avatar" under "Settings and Options", put a dot in the little circle next to "Custom Avatar" and follow directions in the box for uploading a custom avatar.

    Although you can use an image that is posted on any website, most of us use Option 2 - Upload Image From Your Computer.
    Here is a link to our FAQ on albums - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/faq....faq_vb3_albums.

    Any troubles in this, let me know.
    Terry

  8. #8
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    Default Re: In need of advice for my Norman

    Hi Sharon and Norman,

    welcome from me as well

    I will leave the diagnostic and treatment questions to those much more knowledgeable than me. But as far as being single, having a disabeling condition and having to take care of a dog with special needs, I know it all

    The first thing that came to my mind, in the sense of practical advise instead of medical, is that I would train Norman to go potty on a litterbox or something like that. That way you won't have to get up in the middle of the night.

    Another thing that crossed my mind is...are there vollunteer organisations where you could inquire for some help? Or the church perhaps? If I didn't have some wonderful people that surround me in time of needs, I wouldn't be able to do this either. But sometimes we just don't know such people or they are living too far away. In cases like that vollunteers can be a great place to start to try and get some help...walking the dogs, taking you out for a walk for example, etc.

    I live in The Netherlands and things are quite differant here as I understand it but I wondered if you have a wheelchair? That would help you immensely I suppose...

    I don't want to pry into your personal business...but if I can be of any help, let me know.

    Saskia and Mhina

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    Default Re: In need of advice for my Norman

    Hello and welcome.

    I think Saskia has some very good suggestions that could help you. Especially the pee pads. That would help immensely.

    There is nothing specifically other than the cushings meds already mentioned that will bring the cortisol levels down. With high cortisol levels comes an increase for their need of water. Just make sure to keep plenty of water available to him and maybe that will help him not search for it in all other areas. Have you been able to monitor what his water intake per day is?

    Sharlene and Molly Muffin
    Sharlene and the late great diva - Molly muffin (always missed and never forgotten)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: In need of advice for my Norman

    Hi Terry, Saskia and Mhina ~

    My vet is aware of my financial situation, I am pretty sure that is why they don't want to put him through any treatment but she also mentioned some treatments can be tough on the animal. I wanted to stat the lysodren treatment but cant afford the testing before and the additional tests for monitoring. There is no teaching vet facility near Sheboygan, I wish there was. i think the test they wanted to do was the ACTH, plus the other tests would be around 5 - 6 hundred dollars, that didn't include an ultrasound. From what i have read and saw in pictures, Norman has cushings. They did a urine sample his urine was clear - like it showed nothing - clear. : ( they checked his urine four times within two weeks.

    The vet said the other tests go along with a dog suffering from cushings as it puts stress on the liver and kidney function with all the water intake. When I brought him in he was drinking about 12 cups of water a day...I have that down to between 3 to 4. But he still has to go out so often. he does well when I go to the pool or an gone for a few hours, he doesn't have accidents in the apt. He is such a good boy. But when I am home he is at the door ringing the bell, scratching at the door and whining numerous times.

    After examination and urine checks along with the blood work indicate it is most likely than Cushing's.

    I am so grateful for any communication, questions and help. Being alone, with not much if any family support. they don't have time for me, much less Norman. So thank you all for what ever advice you can offer.I will check out the financial resources.

    I put Norman in a cage with a blanket last night after the second time waking me. He whined and barked quite a bit but after a few hours he calmed down and whimpered at times. I got up at 6 am and took him out. He, along with the blanket and pad were loaded with urine. I carried him outside and he did go and then i placed him in the tub. The water was just yellow, so I rinsed him and then refilled the water to bathe him. He whimpered when I dried him off.

    My church helped me with getting into my apt. and help going to appointments, my dog is not a priority to them and I have been given a lot of help recently with the break up and move on my own.

    Since he was a puppy, Norman has been trained to ring the bell and or bark to go out. I just moved into this apt. that is why I tried the cage. I know he had a difficult time holding until he know longer could. I am not sure how to attempt to train Norman to go potty on a litter box.

    I have been trying so hard to find advocates to help me with my injury and all the legal stuff that goes alone with that. I have been trampled by so many people over the past almost 5 years. I wouldn't know who else to ask to help volunteer to inquire for some help? I really don't have a strong support system. I feel very alone.

    I don't have a wheelchair or walker, I wouldn't be able to do the wheelchair because of my injury repetitive movement is so painful, that is why I do as little walking and when I do it is guarded. I can't take the dogs for a walk because of the pulling of the leashes. CRPS is an awful life altering condition. it has taken so much functioning, and livelihood away from me. I go to a warm water pool almost daily, if I keep my neck under the water the pain, spasms and other symptoms lesson while I am in the water.

    Thank you so much for the support and encouragement. Peace to you all.

    Sharon
    Last edited by NoonelovesmelikeNorman; 12-09-2012 at 06:51 PM.

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