PB my doxie & I Need Your Advice

[Sushi-Q]

I forgot to reply that PB is around 15 to 16 lbs and the prescription is for 10 mg of vetoryl once a day which I have not gotten yet but if I do need it soon I will definitely get it online for around $35-40 a month versus $60 at vet. He encouraged me to find it cheaper.

[Squirt's Mom]

Outright greed is the only reason a vet wouldn't want to split a vial. That way they can charge for the full amount of the vial with every test. They don't lose money either way but can make more if they don't split the vial.

I have a little male Chihuahua who has Hydrocephalus and he licks everything, too. Walls, floors, doors, furniture, me, you....if his tongue can reach it, he's kissing it. Which means I am saving a whole bunch of money on cleaning supplies! But Squirt, my cush pup, is very stingy with her tongue; she rarely kisses anything. So, in my house, licking isn't connected to Cushing's. One of the signs of nausea is "air licking" - flicking the tongue in and out of the mouth, licking the lips over and over. But when I asked the vet if Brick, the Chi, was doing the licking because he was nauseated, Doc said no, or he would have vomited at least once by then...and he never has. He just likes to lick.

The "high dose" test is the HDDS and it is used to try to determine which form of Cushing's is in play - pituitary or adrenal. The adrenal form can sometimes be cured via surgery if the pup is a candidate - it is a very serious surgery and not all pups are candidates. The adrenal form, ADH, can be treated via medication, too. So unless you would have the surgery on PB if she has ADH, performing the HDDS would just be an added expense. Most cush pups, 85%, have the pituitary form, PDH, so the odds are that is the form PB has. If I were going to spend money on another test it would an abdominal ultrasound. More expensive than the HDDS but it will also tell you a great deal more. It can help tell the form of Cushing's as well as show many other organs and any issues there. As one of our members used to say - "this test gives the biggest bang for the buck."

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[SachiMom]

Hi Suzie,
Sometimes it is a very small world. I just happened to check in today and always try to check up on the doxies. Although I lost mine a few years ago, she burrowed deep into my heart and so now all doxies hold a special place in my heart.
The "girls" are giving you excellent advice. They are the greatest. They have probably forgotten more than I ever knew. And I'm not just saying that, it is true. So I won't even attempt to address any of the testing, etc. However, Sachi's vets were the most caring and wonderful and the office staff was great also. It has been a few years, but she saw Dr. Steve Leibl and Dr. Kim Doane at Hermosa Animal Hospital on PCH in Hermosa. If this is anywhere near you, I would give them a call, and see what their prices are. They were always very forthcoming with me. I was fortunate at the time and could afford my "million" dollar dog, but I know they worked with other pet owners. Oh! don't panic, it wasn't because of Cushings she got the nickname - she had several other expensive issues!!!
Wishing you the best of luck.
Give the doxies a hug.
-Mary Ann

[Sushi-Q]

Mary Ann, I Do know Dr Leibel from Hermosa Animal Hospital because my boss uses him! She loves him, and the only reason I have not used him is because he is a bit out of my way, but not by much. I suppose 30 min away vs 10 min is minor, except when you need to go frequently, then it would be an hour round trip and I work, so...but again, I wouldn't mind if its for my dogs. I will call this week and find out more, thanks!

I'd like to hear from anyone who had the ultrasound done on their dogs, what is the approx price range so that I can be prepared when I ask? Esp since I fear my current vet is just too pricey. From what I've gathered so far, this seems to be the next step for PB, if I'm reading it right.

Thanks for reading this folks.

Suzie & PB (that's stands for Pretty Boy BTW, cuz he's just so gorgeous. I don't think I'm biased )

[Harley PoMMom]

I took Harley to the School of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania. The ultrasound there cost around $400.

Not all ultrasounds are created equal. A good quality ultrasound/interpretation depends on a few things; the tool used, the technician performing it, and the physician interpreting it. There is a great difference in the quality of U/S machines. Is it a human grade (Phillips, GE, Siemens) My gen vet had an old (? brand) that just doesn't have the power to capture crisp, high-resolution images.

The technician, most likely, will perform their own and therefore, it should those most experienced with capturing good windows and images. That would be a board cert. radiologist or board cert. Internal Med Spec. Likewise the one interpreting it should be the most experienced as well, and that's one of the 2 above. In addition, you could get a copy on disk and always have it over-read by another. Just my opinion.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Sushi-Q]

Lori, thanks for that advice, very wise words indeed. I never would've thought about not all ultrasounds being equal. So, do I outright ask vets or their receptionists what type of machines they have?
I am in the process of looking for another vet practice. I have a lot of things to consider before I make my decision. Sometimes I am discouraged after reading some of the posts; some pets and their owner/parents go thru so much heartache, so much pain, and not all ends well. It's just so scary to face. Like I've mentioned before, when do I seek treatment? I am told Cushing's is slow-moving, but when will I know now is the time to start? That's my main worry right now. I don't want my dog to suffer because I'm clueless...

Suzie

[addy]

Hi Susie,

Each dog is different, different symptoms, perhaps different health problems so it is hard to have a tailor made answer for when to start treatment. I have even had difference of opinions between vets.

I know how hard it is to consider. Usually, treatment is begun to alleviate symptoms that are worrisome and/or concerning to the "owner" (I prefer the word parent )

Have you read through this link? Maybe that will give you more insight.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2231


Hang in there. Many of us struggled with the same question.

[Harley PoMMom]

Lori, thanks for that advice, very wise words indeed. I never would've thought about not all ultrasounds being equal. So, do I outright ask vets or their receptionists what type of machines they have?Suzie

When I inquired Univ. of Penn. about their ultrasound machine, they informed me that they use not a high resolution machine per se, but a "state-of-the-art" machine with all the bells and whistles!

My gen. vet told me that their ultrasound could not capture images as clear as Univ. of Penn., and the cost was around the same. I figured if I was going to spend that kind of money I wanted those u/s images to be as clear as they could be. In fact, Harley's pancreatitis was diagnosed from his first u/s done at Univ. of Penn. Harley never displayed any symptoms of pancreatitis.

I am in the process of looking for another vet practice. I have a lot of things to consider before I make my decision. Sometimes I am discouraged after reading some of the posts; some pets and their owner/parents go thru so much heartache, so much pain, and not all ends well. It's just so scary to face. Like I've mentioned before, when do I seek treatment? I am told Cushing's is slow-moving, but when will I know now is the time to start? That's my main worry right now. I don't want my dog to suffer because I'm clueless...

Suzie

I truly believe you will know when the time is to start treatment, plus we are here to help, and yes, Cushing's is a slow progressing disease.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Sushi-Q]

Thanks Lori for letting me know about the ultrasound cost in your area. I figure $400 in PA will probably translate to $500-600 here in So. CA. I have since done more research, and a vet practice where I got my baby doxie girl spayed actually lists their prices on most of their services. They have their own lab and ultrasound machine, and said their ultrasound starts at $320. I will ask them, and a specialist (VERY pricey) place, what types of machines they have. I have used the specialist before, their consults are over $150.

I will also contact Hermosa Animal Clinic for prices. Bottom line, though, is I want a dr who is familiar with Cushings. But I want you all to know, with all you experts out there, your opinions are what I trust the most! Yes, I am still not confident but feel better that one day I will "just know" when to start my PB on treatment.

[frijole]

Sometimes the law of supply and demand lowers the price and I'd think there'd be a greater supply of high res machines in CA. Also teaching hospitals can sometimes save you money. I paid $500 in Omaha (was referred to them) and they didn't find a tumor. A month later I went to the K State Univ Vet Hospital and paid $150 for a much more comprehensive set of films and they found the tumor. Not only did they have better eqpt, they had better people reading and taking the film. It was worth the 10 hrs of driving. Kim