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Thread: new to board ~ Kona has passed

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    alaska
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    Default Re: new to board

    Lori, that sounds like a great idea! Thank you guys for your help, i am going to call her in the morning and find out for sure. Now maybe i will sleep a bit better, except for the anticipation now of the idea of a different test, thanks again
    Hugs, kona & deb

  2. #22
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    Jun 2012
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    Canada
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    Default Re: new to board

    Oh that is such a good idea!

    hugs,
    Sharlene
    Sharlene and the late great diva - Molly muffin (always missed and never forgotten)

  3. #23
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    Aug 2012
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    Clearwater, FL
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    Default Re: new to board

    Hi Deb, I'm new to this board too, and also have a boston who has high liver enzymes. ALP are in the 2500 range & ALT is 334. My vet is pretty much baffled by my 8 yr old Winston's test results. I asked about the bile acid test for fear of liver disease (my Winston has been on Phenobarbitol & Potassium Bromide for almost 6 yrs due to grand-mal seizures) But my vet either is clueless or they truly don't suspect liver damage. He didn't feel it was necessary?! I think I've done more research on the diseases & drugs than the vet in these past few weeks because I'm the one asking the vet for certain tests, not them suggesting the tests to me...
    Anyway, Winston definately has all the signs of Cushings so I started him on a low dose of Trilostane 10 days ago just to introduce the drug slowly to his system... His Cushings symptoms are getting progressively worse so I plan to up his dose tomorrow. (He weighs 19.5 lbs & he's on 3 mg of TS 2x per day, VERY LOW DOSE, But that's because I'm scared of the possible side effects with his other meds...
    Please keep us informed of what's going on with your sweet girl Kona...
    All I do now is research & educate myself on Cushings & other possible things that could be wrong with my baby Winston, it's a long hard road but my baby is worth it.
    BOSTONS ARE THE BEST!!! I AM INFATUATED WITH THEIR SWEET, PLAYFUL, & LOVING PERSONALITIES!!!
    Good luck to you & sweet little Kona...
    Stacey aka: Winston's Mama

  4. #24
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    Aug 2012
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    alaska
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    Default Re: new to board

    Hello to a fellow boston lover stacey ! We too love our little guys they are such love bugs and do follow me everywhere too. THey each have such distinct little personalities and are sooo easy to love !

    Sorry to hear about winstons health issues though, I have heard about these guys being more prone to the seizures, so glad to hear the meds are working for him and keeping him seizure free for so long. Im with you in going slow on these meds, and especially since you have other meds already that could conflict, I would be doing lots of homework just like you. I have been doing my own research too about all of this cushings and there is just so much to learn and so many differences, its all very confusing.

    As far as Kona, she was prescribed the vetoryl 10 mg 2 x day, but I too wanted to go slow so I started her on 1 x day and watched closely. I took her back yesterday to recheck blood and if the numbers had not dropped we were going to do the bile acid test. Well, first off she is dropping weight, a good thing, she was at 26.9 and now is 24.8, she used to weigh around 20 so that was a good sign. Then her blood work was still high, but it has only been a week and only at 1/2 the dose so I was glad to see it. Her alkp was 7611 down to 6955, and alt from 219 down to 213. We didnt do the baseline cortisol test only because I had insisted on the early recheck, they will do that next week on the regular appt for sure.

    SO the vet suggested that I now go to the 2x day for the next week and see if we can get her numbers down more and maybe relieve some issues. I am more comfortable doing that now, and if she contines to lose the weight we may be able to go back to the 1 x day. One thing that was worrisome was now they detected a SLIGHT heart murmur which can be from the cushings which is the other reason they said to up to the 2x day and see if we can get this under control before any more issues come up.
    You mentioned only doing 3mg a day, are you using vetoryl? If so, Im curious as to how you are able to go so low with the pills being in 10mg ? ALthough you are not supposed to touch the meds, I thought about doing it anyway, opening the pill and dividing it in half so I could do her dose of 15 mg instead of the 20 if that turns out to be too high. The vet told me not to but I think its only due to liability, I think I could do it myself if needed, and i would.

    Please keep us updated too as to winstons condition and what you decide on your meds for him.
    Hugs, Kona and Deb

  5. #25
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    Aug 2012
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    Dallas, TX
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    Default Re: new to board

    Welcome little Kona & Deb,
    I to have a BT & love them all to pieces. I have never had a dog so intune to my feelings & love me so much. Boriss & I are stuck to each other like glue. He is 8 years old.

    You are a couple of steps ahead of me. We are still in the testing phase with things. He had his full blood panel, urine culture, LDDS test last week & this week he does his Ultra sound. Like you I am SCARED to death with this whole treatment thing.

    He sounds a lot like your baby. He isn't showing extremes signs of the disease. More thirsty than he used to be.. but, not buckets of water like others mentioned. Of course accidents in the house & he will lay by the food bowl in the evening. He does this thing that my husband & I call shopping for food.. He will go all around the living room sniffing & licking the carpet looking for crumbs to eat.
    I don't think he is at the "starving" stage. But, he used to never care about food & now he wants his dog food.
    He is more lethargic these days when he used to be hyper & play all the time.

    oh & I also noticed the other night he is snoring louder than he used to.

    I am so afraid with the meds he might just lay around even more. BT's are supposed to be fun & silly. I hate to see the life being drained out of him.

    I am glad your vet is letting you start your treatment on a low dose. Boriss weights 28lbs now. He normally weights 26lbs. My vet wants to start at 30mg a day. That sounds high to me... scary..

    Is your baby having any adverse affects to the pills if not that is a plus?

    I am by far no expert & only learning about a disease I have never heard of until a few weeks ago.

    I am sure someone else will say something. but, it doesn't sound like a good idea to break the pill open yourself. scary...
    There are places you can get the drugs compounded to a different dose. But, who am I to say I am clueless so far. Maybe that is an option. But, I have always heard that even with human drugs it is a bad idea.

    I will probably start treatment soon. I can't decide if now is the right time. Mainly do to fear of the meds.

    But, my vet did say not to let it go too long so other organs don't become affected.

    Good luck & welcome.. I hope we can all get our babies back to normal. I am looking forward to seeing my crazy BT again.

    Amy & my boy Boriss

  6. #26
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    Mar 2009
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    rural central ARK
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    Default Re: new to board

    If so, Im curious as to how you are able to go so low with the pills being in 10mg ? ALthough you are not supposed to touch the meds, I thought about doing it anyway, opening the pill and dividing it in half so I could do her dose of 15 mg instead of the 20 if that turns out to be too high. The vet told me not to but I think its only due to liability, I think I could do it myself if needed, and i would.
    Hi Deb,

    No, it is not a good idea to open those capsules and divide them yourself. In the first place, Dechra warns against handling the meds. In the second, you cannot be sure of the division of drug vs filler in the mix if you divide it. So you may get the full dose in one portion and none in the other. If you need a smaller dose, compounding is the only way to achieve this if pills can't be cut into smaller pieces efficiently.

    Hugs,
    Leslie and the gang

    From the Dechra product insert -

    HUMAN WARNINGS:
    Keep out of reach of children. Not for human use.
    Wash hands after use. Do not empty capsule contents and do not attempt to divide the capsules. Do not handle the capsules if pregnant or if trying to conceive. Trilostane is associated with teratogenic effects and early pregnancy loss in laboratory animals. In the event of accidental ingestion/overdose, seek medical advice immediately and take the labeled container with you.
    "May you know that absence is full of tender presence and that nothing is ever lost or forgotten." John O'Donahue, "Eternal Echoes"

    Death is not a changing of worlds as most imagine, as much as the walls of this world infinitely expanding.

  7. #27
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    Aug 2012
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    alaska
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    Default Re: new to board

    Hi guys, yea I did read about not supposed to touch the meds because it is like a chemo drug used in humans. The vetoryl is small capsules with the powder in them, and I have the same kind of pill for her milk thystle that I break open and divide and I know its a WAY different med I just thought if thats what it takes then I would do it, no worries, not at that point yet for now going with the full capsule.

    Amy that is funny about your little Boriss snoring more cause that was something I noted about Kona too, she never used to snore and then all of a sudden shes snoring up a storm, must be the deep sleep this cushings can put them in ?? Like I have read all over the place, all these guys can have so many different signs. Kona does what you described about licking the carpet for crumbs, especially where the other two had eaten like she hoped they had dropped some, then I noticed her eating birdfood around my bird feeders, and the same thing, sitting at the dinner bowl right on time, or a few minutes before, making sure I didnt forget it was dinner time.

    It sounds like these guys are about the same weight, and I would agree with you that the 30 a day seemed high, she was originally prescribed 20 per day but I started her (like you probably already read) on 10 per day for first week and today is now 2nd day of increase to 20. So far no adverse reactions, I think, maybe, she isnt drinking as much water today. Could be my wishful thinking, but I really dont see her at the water bowl so much so far today. I think I may agree about the cushings can effect other organs cause like I said the heart murmur was never there before and it CAN be related to cushings, which is why my vet encouraged me to go to the 2 x day like she originally wanted. I am no expert either but these are the things I am noticing and learning as we go. Maybe you could ask your vet about starting low and see how he does and then increase ?? I dont know, I did it without asking but it made me feel better and it was only short term and now I feel better with the full meds. One week at the low dose and there was definate signs of improvement. We go back next tues for the regular blood check and I have higher hopes that it will be even better, but it doesnt mean I am not still watching her like a hawk becuase of the increase of meds, I have predisone on hand and she is with me 24/7.
    Keep me posted on what you decide cause it sounds like we have some similar things going on.
    Hugs, Kona and Deb

  8. #28
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    Aug 2012
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    Dallas, TX
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    Default Re: new to board

    I thought the snoring thing was odd too when it started in the last couple of weeks. I find it comforting now.. Just hearing.. knowing that he is still curled up right beside me all night.

    Are you doing the 20mg all at one time in the morning? I can't decide if I want to ask to the vet if I can do it that way or 10mg in the am & 10 mg in the pm. I was just reading about trilostane side effects & it said something about for some dogs less side effects & better results if you break it up??

    I dread the next time I need a pet sitter to stay with my babies when I am out of town. Sounds like too much to trust someone else with. I would be a worry wart.

    You & Kona give me hope. I love seeing pups that this is working for & running relatively smooth. I am sure nothing will easy the constant worry or the scary things running thru the back of our minds. But, I am happy for you & the success thus far.

    Yay!!

    Amy & Boriss

  9. #29
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    Aug 2012
    Location
    Clearwater, FL
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    14

    Default Re: new to board

    Hi Deb, to answer your question about the low dose Trilostane...I have a compounding pharmacy right down the street so my vet called in a prescription for the 3 mg pills. I too was afraid to open the Vetoryl capsules & I don't plan on ever doing so.

    Winston was initially prescribed 10mg Vetoryl 2x per day when I had him at the emergency hospital for a horrible melting corneal ulcer. (That's how he was diagnosed with Cushings, was at the ER.) Anyway, they had him on that dosage for 4 days when he was in the hospital since they were caring for his eye with drops every hour... When they let him come home, he was so lethargic & lifeless that I was afraid he wouldn't make it through the night. I spoke w/ my regular vet who suggested I stop the Vetoryl to see if Winston would bounce back. (I didn't know if it was the Cushings, the eye ulcer, or the Vetoryl that was making him act so lifeless???)
    He did start to act much better within a few days after I stopped the Vetoryl so that's when my vet & I decided to try the lower dose Trilostane just to be safe. He's got so many other health issues going on right now so I have to be extra cautious...at this point I don't even know if we're going to be able to save his eye.

    On a lighter note... I'm happy to hear that Kona is doing well with her treatment! I think starting her on 1 pill & working your way up is the smart way to go.
    I'm anxious to hear some good news about her progress & her test results...take care!!!
    Stacey aka: Winston's Mama

  10. #30
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    Aug 2012
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    alaska
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    Default Re: new to board

    Hi Amy, I am dosing her twice a day and didnt realize that makers of vetoryl suggest once daily until reading heare. But my vet thinks the splitting up and keeping an even amount going in the body is better, so I dont know, so far ok, but its way early. It will be something to consider (1x day) if this doesnt work out. All of my bostons have pretty touchy tummies, I cant mess much with extras or meds on them cause it usually dont settle well so that also was a concern when starting but so far no upsets at all.

    See I learned something else today, never thought of the compounding pharmacy, in fact I dont even know if there is one around me, but I will be finding out now. Im so glad the lower dose is working for you so far too, that was a fear of mine, her becoming lifelesl and lethargic, we always want them happy and healthy, and full of life like we know bostons are. So, I will definately be looking for that option if needed, im just praying and hoping that this helps and not hurts. Ive said it before, this is just such an awful disease for our pets to get, its not right when they live such short lives anyways, breaks my heart.

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