Littleberry, diagnosis issues

[CarolW]

I kept trying the Cushings forum; it's still offline. Let's hope it comes back up soon! Though my Kumbi doesn't have Cushings, I'm interested.

There IS another Cushings group; it is astounding! A friend of mine pointed me there. It's a Yahoo Group, so you would need a Yahoo ID (Yahoo will guide you on how to get one), and you have to apply to join the group, same as here. Too bad their messages aren't public, so you can't read them until your membership is accepted.

The group is here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canine...utoimmuneCare/

A shorter version of that link:

http://tinyurl.com/vdyw

When your membership is accepted, they send you a bunch of files, with quite a few links in them. I felt quite overwhelmed - but I've spent all my long life dealing with being overwhelmed, and I have a trade secret (ha!) about coping when you get thrown much more than you can possibly do (I was taught this in school, some 50 years ago):

Do what interests you most, and you feel able to do - and set the rest aside! You can always come back to it later!

I can say this about that forum: it is very thorough, and has truly excellent information. It is also supportive, in the same way as here and on the Cushings online forum that just disappeared.

So, I'd keep checking for the now-missing forum (I'll be doing that too, because I love reading there), but also, I'd go look at that Yahoo Group forum, and consider joining there. If you do join, you'll find me there too.

Sat, 11 Apr 2009 06:52:39 (PDT)

[CarolW]

Back from giving Kumbi his morning insulin, I want to add this about the Cushings.net online forum, and the Yahoo group I just pointed to. I am NOT suggesting you substitute the Yahoo group for our much-loved cushings.net forum! I'm suggesting it in ADDITION.

I don't think there's another forum quite like the cushings.net one. I really hope they can get back online soon. Hope they didn't get hit by some kind of technical problem - maybe a problem with billing, but surely they'd be able to straighten that out (I hope!) very soon .I'll be checking several times a day, till they come back online, as many of you here are my friends there (though I barely post there).

P.S. Today is Kwali's 14th birthday, and Kumbi's 12.5 UnBirthday.

Sat, 11 Apr 2009 07:09:13 (PDT)

[lulusmom]

I'd also like to thank Natalie for letting us cc.net folks use her site to communicate with each other. I'm a member of both sites but I know just enough about diabetes to be dangerous. I have two dogs with cushing's, one also diagnosed with hypothyroidism and the other we suspect has diabetes insipidus.

I'm sorry to say that I am disorganized and lose my train of thought easily so I take the easy road in responding to posts. See my comments in blue below:

I know many people here have also dealt with Cushings dogs so it's good to have a place to go as questions arise. Ten year old Poodle has suspicious blood work and physical signs, thinning hair on body, slight tummy and constant ear inflammation.

Hypothyroidism and cushing's are two conditions that are not uncommon to toy and miniature poodles. All of the symptoms you have listed are symptoms associated with both conditions as well. I'm not sure about the suspicious bloodwork though. Can you please post the abnormal blood values, including the reference ranges?

80%+ of dogs with cushing's experience increase in appetite (polyphagia) and/or excessive drinking and peeing (Polydipsia/Polyuria) Have you noticed any change in appetite or thirst in your dog.

She recently went on Thyroid pills as that tested low but I learned Cushings can affect Thyroid levels. Not drinking excessive water or pottying too often yet

Yes, Cushing's can definitely affect the thyroid. As a matter of fact a good majority of cushdogs, prior to treatment, have what is called Euthyroid Sick Syndrome. The elevated cortisol levels in a cushdog transiently lowers thyroid levels (low total T4 concentrations are common); however, once the cortisol is brought down to desired levels via effective treatment, the thyroid levels usually correct themselves.

She has to retake the 8hr Dex test in a few weeks since the first one she took was lost in the mail. [We're waiting for inflammation from last test to heal before repeating the test]. I have new appreciation for everyone going through these difficult illnesses and I know many of these dogs are older and must leave us eventually but it's such a hard road to travel.

I didn't have time to post to your thread on cc.net but I do remember reading your post and thinking about how angry I would be if the blood for or results of an LDDS test were lost in the mail. This is pretty inexcusable and I certainly hope the second one is free of charge. We'll look forward to seeing the results once you get them.

I'll be checking in again and look forward to more information.....the more you can give us the better able we can provide appropriate feedback.

Glynda

[acushdogsmom]

I really just have a minute but wanted to say that I don't think they absolutely have to take blood samples from the neck area. In fact I know they don't have to.

My Cushing's dog had ACTH stims done many times over the six years in which he was successfully treated with Lysodren, and they always took the necessary blood samples from his legs. Always.

Why? Because I asked them to do it that way.

My cushdog (15 lb Bichon) had a very bad experience when he was younger (at a previous GP Vet) which involved a blood sample being taken from his neck. So when I realised he was going to have to have numerous blood draws over the rest of his lifetime, I asked for the samples to be taken from the legs instead.

edited to add:

I think it may be easier for the Vet Techs to get blood samples from the neck area, but they can definitely use the legs for the blood draws.

Apparently, not all Vet Techs can get blood samples from the legs, maybe because it's a bit harder to find a good vein in the legs, but one of the two the Vet Techs who knew how to do it was always assigned to do our dog's blood draws.

[rhodesian46]

Hi and welcome,
I had a Siberian Husky named Pebbles. She was on thyroid pills( Soloxine),had Cushings and Diabetes. Dogs with these diseases are prone for more infections. Pebbles was on these thyroid pills even after her Cushings was under control. Also dogs that are first diagnosed with Cushings may have high blood pressure. Has your dog been tested for that? Normally the meds are given and usually discontinued after a few months.

If you could post more info as to the results of her blood work we would all love to help you. The liver enzymes are generally high with cush pups. Washter any more tests done such as an abdominal ultrasound?

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Littleberry,

Glad to see you made it here! I posted to your thread at cc.net...I'm the one who's ACTH was in the freezer! LOL

Hope you are feeling a bit more settled now and not quite as angry. Tho lord knows you had reason!

Like Glynda said, the more info you can give us about your baby the better. Does she have any other conditions that you know of? Is she on any other meds, supplements, herbs at the moment? How much does she weigh?

This can be a frustrating, scary process at first but you will get through it. There will be folks here to help you along. And you don't have to do alone, either. There may not be as many of us here at the moment, but all it takes is knowing one other person out there knows what you are going throught to make it a bit easier.

Hang in there,
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[gpgscott]

Hi Littleberry,

Very sorry the cc.net is down and very glad you are here.

It stinks that the first LDDS sample was lost, and I agree with Cushy, unless you have an extremely small on you should not have to go for the neck, I am familiar with doing with with cats but not dogs.

The Ldds can return negative for Cushing's and the pup have what is called Atypical Cushing's, this was our case and many other members as well. Atypical Cushing's is when hormones other than and sometimes also including cortisol are elevated.

Please let us know of the results of the LDDS.

Best to you both. Scott

[lulusmom]

Hi again.

I just wanted to expand on Scotts comments about atypical. Miniature and Toy Poodles are at the top of the list of breeds that are over represented for atypical cushing's and pseudo cushings, also known as alopecia X. Both of these conditions involve an imbalance of adrenal steroids other than cortisol, which is common in typical cushing's. With the primary symptom being loss of coat, the breed being a Poodle and lacking the normal voracious appetite and excessive drinking and peeing, I would suspect that pseudo cushing's may be involved. Many dogs with this condition present with dermatological issues, like loss of coat, and liver abnormalities such as elevated liver enzymes and enlarged liver, which could be the cause of a slight pot belly. Perhaps the abnormal bloodwork you mentioned probably involved elevated ALKP and/or ALT?

http://www.michvma.org/documents/MVC...s/Nichols2.pdf

Now here's the deal. In the absence of overt symptoms like huge appetite and excessive drinking and peeing, it is generally not recommended to treat with conventional and serious drugs like Trilostane and Lysodren, even if the LDDS were to be positive for cushing's. So if it were my dog, I would forego the LDDS and have a full adrenal panel done by the University of Tennessee Knoxville (UTK). They test both baseline and stimulated values for all adrenal steroids, inclulding cortisol, so you kill two birds with one stone. Not all vets are familiar with atypical of pseudo cushing's which is a shame because there are a good many dogs out there that go undiagnosed or worse yet, misdiagnosed.

I am providing a link to UTK general information page which has information regarding proper handling and shipping of blood sample. If you choose to discuss this with your vet, I recommend that you share this link with him/her. I am also including a link to their treatment consideration page which has some great information. Please take the time to read through it.

http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/en...ts_info_07.pdf
http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/en.../treatment.php

If pseudo cushing's (usually only elevated progesterone and/or 17 oh progesterone) is ultimately diagnosed, the good news is that melatonin is the recommended treatment. This is inexpensive and can be purchased over the counter at just about any health food or drug store.

I have two cushdogs, one of which has pituitary dependent cushing's with elevation of all adrenal steroids. They are both Pomeranians, which is also a breed that is predisposed to adrenal steroid imbalances. My first cushdog, Lulu, was diagnosed and is still treated by an internal medicine specialist. They always request a full adrenal panel from UTK before confirming their diagnosis, especially if the dog is a breed commonly known to have adrenal hormone abnormalities, like Poodles and Poms. Internal medicine specialists are generally more experienced and knowledgable in diagnosing and treating cushing's so this may be something you might consider. If you don't know of one in your area, I am providing a link that might help.

http://www.acvim.org/websites/acvim/index.php?p=3

I hope this helps. I also hope that your head isn't swimming too badly and you can still feed yourself. I remember when my first one was diagnosed....oh my gosh, I was dazed, confused and probably a threat to myself but didn't know it.

Glynda

[acushdogsmom]

I love Glynda.

I also thought that this might be helpful and interesting reading for you:

Newer tests shed light on causes, treatment of adrenal disorders
By:Johnny Hoskins, DVM, PhD, Dipl. ACVIM
DVM Newsmagazine, Jan 1, 2008

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm....jsp?id=485128

Page 1 of article:
http://www.dvmnews.com/dvm/article/a...ID=1&sk=&date=

Page 2 of article:
http://www.dvmnews.com/dvm/article/a...date=&pageID=2

Page 3 of article:
http://www.dvmnews.com/dvm/article/a...date=&pageID=3

[littleberry]

Thanks everyone for posting about Cushings, have to be off this Easter morning and hope be back to read all the posts tonight.

So much great information, thank you !!!!