Bailey and Friends

[SasAndYunah]

Awwwww Susan, don't worry too much Like for example with the table scraps... If you enjoy feeding some table scraps (and you don't overdo it and watch what it is you feed and watch Bailey's weigth) there's no harm in it. There's no "law" that says pups need to be raised this way or that way. It's about how you and your pup can have the best life togheter

It also depends on the pup. If you have a pup that's a bit of a character, it takes some more efforts usually and some more "strict" rules but some pups are naturally very mellow and don't need that much work

About the crate, don't think of it as a tool to kennel the pup. It's suposed to be a safe and quiet place with the door always open....For example, my Yunah, I have a crate with the door open at all times. She will use it when there are too many people and she wants to sleep, for example. Or late at night, when I'm in bed but stil "up", working on the pc, reading a book, watching tv and there are still bright lights. Yunah wants to sleep late at night and so she will go into her crate where it is dark and quiet So she uses it at her own preference..it's a "bed" to her...calm, dark and peaceful My crate is never used to kennel Yunah. But, if there's some sort of emergency (wouldn't know what at this moment) I can put her in her crate and close the door because she is used to it and that's just a reasuring thought. And also, here it's forbidden to have a dog in the car without some safety measures. They either have to be in a crate or they have to wear a safety seatbelt. So for transportation and safety purpuses it can be useful as well when a dog is used to being crated. That's also the main reason people here use wired crates. You can fold them up very flat and once inside the car, it gives the dog the possibility to look outside

But in my opinion, using a crate or kennel is not to lock up the dog, it's to provide the dog with his own private space, a safe and quiet environment and in case of emergencies or transportation, it's handy when they are very well used to being in a crate (those are the only situations in which you would close the door) And of course, there can also arise other unexpected situations in which it can be handy...but in normal life, day to day, I personally do not believe dogs should be crated and thus that's not my starting point

I will write about what to do at night, later today. But I just didn't want you to worry too much...it's not neccesary

Saskia and Yunah

[labblab]

I have the utmost respect and admiration for Saskia's thoughts and advice regarding training. For living proof, just look at beautiful Yunah, who is the most remarkable companion I have ever known . And if the notion of never confining Bailey in her crate is appealing to you and also accomplishes your training goals, Susan, then for certain it is the route for you to go.

Before exiting the conversation, however, I do want to clarify that using a crate for confinement during puppyhood is an accepted training method here in the U.S. As an example, here's a link to the crate training suggestions offered by the U.S. Humane Society:

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals..._training.html

Their instructions are pretty much the same as the ones that we followed at the time that our dogs were puppies. In addition to providing a safe enclosure for the puppy, another significant value that they attach to this type of approach is the manner in which it can assist with toilet training -- which otherwise often becomes one of the biggest stressors for new parents.

But having said that, it may be the case that you'll find Saskia's approach to be the more successful for you. Or you may end up combining elements from different approaches. But I did want to at least provide this link, since the method it describes is one that was very successful for us and it addresses several of the questions that you have asked.

Marianne

[addy]

Wednesday, March 16th.

What's the Countdown?

I can't wait to say, ten, nine. eight, seven , six , five, four , three, two, one and they are OFF!!!!!

It will all be fine. If you don't have to go to work, it will be a piece of cake.

Sometimes guys have problems with crates, my hubby did too. They have trouble sometimes seeing the positive side of one. Maybe until everything gets chewed up. Koko chewed up every pillow in my house, never wood, he liked soft stuff.

Almost time,

Hugs,
Addy

[SasAndYunah]

Oh Marianne, I think there's a slight miscommunication I will write more this evening but for now a quick response. Crate training will involve "locking" the pup up, afterall, it needs to get used to being behind a closed door if only in a case of emergency if nothing else And of course, everyone can have differant reasons or moments in which for them it is handy or more safe for the pup if they can put the pup in a closed crate for a while. But, once a dog is familiar with a closed crate, I don't think the crate should be anything but a "bed" to the dog. A place thats always available (meaning, the door should be always open) to retreat in if the pup wants to or feels like it But the notion, that crates are for kenneling, should not be the norm. Crates are a safe and private place for a dog, without closed doors. That should be the norm use of a crate. At least, that's how I feel about crates

Sas and Yunah

[labblab]

Saskia, I am always interested in reading your suggestions and will be looking forward to reading everything that you recommend to Susan. Because even though I don't know whether we will ever again be bringing home a dog in "puppy stage," I want to incorporate all the best suggestions I can find.

But I do think that you and I are talking about a different approach, rather than just a miscommunication. When you have the time to look through the link that I posted above, you'll see that it does talk about actually kenneling the puppy within the closed crate for limited periods of time with the intent of keeping the puppy safe and aiding in toilet training. Once the puppy has matured, then the crate is used most often in the manner you are recommending: with an open door and as an available personal den. But during the first weeks or months, the puppy does spend the night confined in the crate as well as limited times during the day. So I do believe this is a different approach.

But I also believe that there can be many ways to achieve a desired goal. So I will be very interested in learning more about the training methods that you will be suggesting!

Marianne

[Bailey's Mom]

Hello Friends of Bailey!!

Thank you for the words of encouragement and the guidance/suggestions/personal experience on crating/kenneling. I will print out the link and read it and then probably give it to Bob to read.

This is Wednesday. The countdown clock tells me 2 days, 10 hours, forty five minutes and zero seconds!! I'm writing this at 2-ish pm on Wednesday...so for me, actual departure time is 64 hours!!

I am stopping by just to let you know I will look in here periodically over the next 64 hours, but I'm in countdown crunch now. If you don't here from me before I leave on Saturday, I hope to be able to post Saturday evening-and each evening thereafter (for those who have the patience to put up with my ramblings!)

It sounds like you all are almost as excited as I am! And I promise to try not to sit on anyone. The car will be full, but I will make sure there is room for each one of you.

I spent most of last night canceling reservations made and making new ones-due to changes we decided on (like shortening travel time each day.)
I'm hoping I didn't miss one that should be canceled...and then get charged for it.

I guess I didn't tell you guys (HOW could I have NOT??!!)-I set up a Shutterfly web page for Bailey. If you are not a Shutterfly member already, to gain access you will have to set up an account. -That just means your name, a user name and a password. It may require me to "allow" you after you register. Here's the link-if anyone has any trouble getting in, let me know.

http://littlebailey.shutterfly.com

If you do not wish to share your email address, that's fine. The only difference if you don't get in is that you may get pictures or videos a bit later. Also I won't be putting this kind of dialogue in there. It's more of a general public forum, so to speak.

I will at the very least come back to keep you current on the countdown!!

-(((((Hugs)))))
Susan

[SasAndYunah]

Okay, here we go. And Susan, you have to do what you are most comfortable with, that’s the number one rule. I checked out the link Marianne gave us (and Marianne, you were right, difference in use, not just miscommunication ) and that would work perfectly well, no problem. The difference lies mainly in the fact that in that link, the crate is also used as a “tool” in housetraining and as a mean to, at certain moments, let the dog stay in the crate for it’s safety and the safety of the furniture so to say, when people have to leave the pup alone.

And that’s the difference with here, The Netherlands. Let me explain shortly... When people take a dog (pup or adult) there’s always someone home. It’s quite uncommon actually for a dog to be left home alone for longer periods of time. You cannot even adopt a dog here, when there isn’t at least one person home practically all day. The maximum time a potential new dogowner is allowed to be away from home is 3 times a week, 4 hours. And that’s the absolute max. If you’re gone more often or for longer periods, you don’t get a dog. So in general, people here have more time to raise and train puppies. It’s just due to different circumstances, is all.

So Susan, with you and your husband being home most of the time, it’s up to you. If you want to use the crate for housetraining as well, you can follow the link Marianne gave us, a perfectly fine description of how you could train Bailey. But I will also tell you how it’s done here, separate crate training and separate housetraining.

Let’s start with the crate training. I already gave you an “introduction” of how to place the crate (in a calm area of the living room but with a view at where the people are) I already explained how it would be best if the pup “voluntarily” designates the crate as her private area to sleep. And how you can help this process by tossing (unseen by the pup) a treat in the crate, every now and then.

Now let’s specify it. Pups, are known to play one moment, and fall asleep the very next. If Bailey falls asleep right there and then where she was playing, you gently pick her up and place her in the crate…as far in the back as possible. If this wakes her, you stroke her with some calm, gentle strokes (do not talk to her during this period, we want her to go back to sleep) and this is where you close the door quietly. Now, it’s important that you make sure you are in the same room with her, when she is about to wake up. Because when you hear her waking up, a yawn, some movement coming from the crate, you go to the crate, hand her a treat through the closed door (don’t speak or act excited since we don’t want Bailey to think it’s a big deal) wait a second, then open the door, call her out, and pick her up immediately to bring her to her outside “bathroom area”. If all goes well, she should think of her crate as her “bed” pretty soon and go there all by herself. The duration of the closed crate door, will be longer in the time to come, with slow, small steps...but we get there later

At night. I would use some sort of box (like a cardboard box) and put it next to the bed. Proceed as you did during the day. Place a very sleepy Bailey in the box, give her some gentle strokes (don’t speak) and leave her to fall asleep.
If she wakes up and becomes restless, just lower your hand into the box (don’t speak) give a few gentle strokes and take your hand back out. This way she will know you are close and this will hopefully settle her down so she will fall asleep again. (I will discuss the "pee at night" part in the housetraining part )

Now about the housetraining. In the beginning you need to put her in her outside “bathroom area” every hour. And apart from that, every time after she has played, every time she wakes up from her naps and every time after she ate. Let’s say she will go out for the last time at 11 at night. And let’s say her first morning time will be around 7 in the morning. Well of course, 8 hours is too long for a puppie. You can do 2 things. You can just go to bed and wait for her to wake you up during the night (but then you may not know whether she is just “lonely” or whether she has to pee) or you can set an alarm, 2 times during the night (for example at 2 and 5), and asleep or awake, just pick Bailey up and bring her outside. This way, if she wakes you up in the times in between her peebreaks, you can almost count on it she wakes you up for some comfort. Otherwise you could end up going outside in the middle of the night 6 or 7 times

And after just a few days, you set the alarm just once (around 3 for example)…and once you know she will sleep through the night and she won’t wake you for comfort reasons, you can quit setting the alarm. Because you can be secure she does have to pee and she is not looking for comfort. This will usually happen in less then a week. Well, compared to human babies, it’s nothing, one week of broken nights

But be sure to pick her up and bring her to her bathroom area, right away. Don’t go to the bathroom yourself first or brush your teeth first, she can’t control her bladder muscles to keep it up. And the less accidents, the better. It may sound a bit intensive compared to other forms but it works very well and reduces the risks of accidents to a minimum. And, my personal most valued statement about dogs is, we want to set them up to succeed…and that is what we do using this method, in my opinion.

In case you discover an accident indoors, (probably needless to say but I will still say it) never ever punish the pup, not by voice, not by rubbing it’s nose in it or any other way. Clean it up, preferably when the pup isn’t even there. She’s a baby, she will have accidents. I will often ask people who complain about accidents: “How long did you need to wear diapers? How old were you when you first stayed dry an entire week at night?”

Hope I didn’t confuse things even more. And as always, if you have questions, don’t understand something I said, let me know.

Sas and Yunah

[Bailey's Mom]

....countdown = 2 days 8 hours, fifty-six minutes and 30 seconds!!!

Hey-I didn't think to tell you-the owner of the kennel has "reserved" one of Bailey's sisters. How funny!

[Bailey's Mom]

I am printing out the discussion about crate training. I have already printed out the Humane Society article. I gave it to Bob and he read it. I asked him what he thought about it and he replied it sounded okay. I think if we figure out when and how we can give it an honest try.
For bedtime-we have one of those high beds...the ones you have to take a running jump to get into. (Well,,,maybe I'm exaggerating a tad.)For the immediate future we have a small table that is very sturdy. I think I'm going to try putting Bailey on there at first. There are a couple of other things I could try to raise her a little higher so it will be possible for me to reach down and comfort her.
I went to bed but never to sleep...and I was hungry, so I got up fixed myself a little sandwich and am now back up here-I'll probably try going down in about an hour and see if it will work then.
You guys are aware that we will be starting a second countdown when we hit the road?? That will be the countdown to 10AM on Friday.

Good night. Let's all try to get a good nice sleep.

-Susan

[BestBuddy]

Susan

I am getting so excited for you. It is going to be so much fun.

I am really interested in the crate/kennel training as we have never done that. I am sure others in Australia (Alison?) have used it but it has never been something I have had anything to do with. I have always lived on a property with land as I have horses and we always have an outside area securely fenced with an undercover area (veranda) or at the moment it is an unused garage with a doggy door that I can put the dogs outside and they look after themselves when I am at work. Its like another room that has dog beds and food and water bowls.

I wonder if it is something that I could look into considering my dogs are now 3 and 4 years old. Maybe I have left it too late. I can see a benefit of having the boys inside but contained when needed for certain situations.

Jenny