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Thread: Bailey and Friends

  1. #21
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    Apr 2009
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    Default Re: Bailey and Friends

    Hi Sas,

    In my experience, I'm used to people using the term "crate" to refer to all kinds of enclosures -- the plastic molded ones as well as the wire ones. The plastic ones (with the wire windows and wire doors) are the kind that we've always used because they are more private without the need for a towel or blanket covering them.

    Susan, in answer to your question as to what to do at night -- I am not an expert, but I can tell you what has always worked well for us. And that is to have the puppy enclosed within the crate at night, but nearby so that you can hear if it wakes up and is restless. That way you can immediately respond to a need for a potty break. But this will keep the puppy from wandering around the room at night and going potty (or creating chewing damage) while you are blissfully sleeping.

    As Saskia says, you do not want to close a puppy into a crate until you've completed the process of familiarizing it. So to begin with, you may want to find some other way of "corraling" the puppy at night -- perhaps maybe using an exercise pen. Since our bedroom is also upstairs, I've always spent the first nights with a new puppy downstairs. I've been willing just to sleep on the couch with the puppy in a nearby exercise pen. That way, we were very close to the door and it was fast and easy to take the puppy out during the night for at least one scheduled overnight potty break (plus any other needed ones). But once the puppy was comfortable with being closed inside the crate, that became it's "bedroom," both overnight and for daily napping and quiet time. I agree that the crate should never be used as a punishment. Rather as a quiet den when it is naptime or when your attention needs to be elsewhere and the puppy needs to be confined so as not to be wandering around getting into mischief (yes, I have gnawed table legs and even a chunk chewed out of the drywall of my dining room to prove what an unattended Lab puppy can accomplish in a very short amount of time...).

    Marianne

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Bailey and Friends

    Quote Originally Posted by SasAndYunah View Post
    Okay, I have figured out the difference I think What "we" call crate, you would call a wired crate. And what you are using is what we call a "travel kennel". So for me, a crate always means a wired crate. Everything else is a "kennel" or "travel kennel".

    Here, the plastic ones, the travel kennels, are used only for travelling by plane. In our homes we only use the wired crates, simply called crates. So when I say crate I mean a wired crate and what you call crate is a plastic travel kennel...am I correct?

    Sas and Yunah
    Yes-you have it, Sas!! I hate calling it a crate but that is the only way I have heard them referred to. This is plastic, with a wire door and they are approved for air travel. I will try to get myself used to calling it a kennel.
    Your crate suggestions are greatly appreciated. BUT-if I am to keep Bailey by my side of the bed , in the beginning, do I have the door very near the bed so I can reach her if she starts to get distressed? For now, I think the door can be removed.
    I am anticipating trouble with Bob on this. He already announced that when we are home, Bailey will not be in the crate. (Well-he didn't really announce it, but he stated his opinion.) He didn't understand my wanting (and getting) another one for upstairs.
    I told him I was getting suggestions from an animal behaviorist. I think he may be teachable...so long as he doesn't know that's what I'm doing!
    That's all I can do right now. I have found that I do not like not having the duck with me in bed, so he's coming back. I'm having a rough time re:Palmer now and it has kind of sucked the wind out of me.
    I'll be back!

    Susan

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Bailey and Friends

    Marianne.....LOL!!!
    (yes, I have gnawed table legs and even a chunk chewed out of the drywall of my dining room to prove what an unattended Lab puppy can accomplish in a very short amount of time...).

    More later. Thanks for what you wrote.

    Susan

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Bailey and Friends

    I just added one picture to Palmer's album....if anyone's interested......it shows up first.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Bailey and Friends

    Susan, is there a particular reason why Bob is so negative about using a crate? Did any of your other dogs have a bad experience or a bad reaction?

    As a result of comments that I have read on the forum, I do understand that using crates can feel like a tougher decision for folks who have rescued dogs from very negative situations in which they have been cruelly caged or confined for lengthy periods. But for little puppies who have never had any adverse experiences with a cage, a crate can truly be introduced and used in a very positive and peaceful way.

    Saskia may take exception with things that I say here (and please feel free to do so, Sas!). But all of our puppies came home with us at the 8-9 week mark. And as I've already said, their crates became safe havens and also were really helpful in terms of toilet training. By instinct, a dog does not want to soil its den. And so a puppy will be less likely to choose to relieve itself while in a crate than when it has free rein of a room or the house. No puppy should ever be left alone and locked in a crate for a period of time that exceeds the capacity of its little bladder. And we always gave our puppies the opportunity to relieve themselves both before we put them in the crate and at any time that they came out of their crate. But during naptime, bedtime, and periods during the day when we were not available to be focused on monitoring the puppy's activity, their crates really were safe, clean havens.

    I'm saying all this based on the understanding that you and/or Bob are at home quite a bit of the time. For people who are working away from home, other arrangements definitely need to be made. Because it would be very cruel to lock a little puppy (or dog, for that matter) alone in a crate for extended time periods. But what I am talking about are briefer interludes throughout the course of the day.

    Also, I have to add that my experience has been with big, energetic, MOUTHY Labs who love to chew. The experience with little dogs may be very different. But their crates really were often the safest places for our dogs when we couldn't be watching them. I remember instead setting up an exercise pen in the kitchen and leaving baby Luna inside -- supposedly to keep her safe and confined while we were away from home for a couple of hours. She managed to push on the side of the ex-pen until she shifted it clear across the kitchen floor and got to the dining room carpet. When we got home, she had chewed up the entire edge of the carpet . Although of course I was not happy with the damage to the carpet, we were even more upset about the possible damage to her, should she have swallowed some of the carpet tacks, etc. So some homes may have rooms that are more easily puppy-proofed than others. But our house really does not have a good, safe place to confine a puppy. However, I always knew the puppy was safe in her crate.

    And clearly her time in her crate has not damaged her psyche . Because as I said earlier, she, Peg, and Barkis all three have loved their crates as adults. Peg and Luna frequently walk in-and-out throughout the day to lay down and sleep. There are occasions now when I do want to confine Luna in her crate while I am attending to Peg. All I have to say is, "Luna, in your box" and she absolutely RACES across the room to hurl herself inside. I always give her a treat once she is safely in there, and it absolutely cracks us up to see how fast she flies into her crate to turn around inside and claim her treat.

    As I say, there may be ways in which we have used the crate that others would think are not so great. But even if we have goofed up, our dogs have still ended up loving their personal dens. So they are testimony to the fact that crates do not have to be horror chambers by any stretch of the imagination.

    Marianne

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Bailey and Friends

    Three days to go Oh, I can hardly wait!! Go get that baby!!!!!!
    Love, Carrol & Chloe

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Bailey and Friends

    Carrol-do you have my countdown clock??
    Susan

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Bailey and Friends

    Quote Originally Posted by labblab View Post
    Susan, is there a particular reason why Bob is so negative about using a crate? Did any of your other dogs have a bad experience or a bad reaction? No-we have not had problems before....we just never really got it to work. I think Bob is figuring....We'll be here so why would you kennel the dog?

    As a result of comments that I have read on the forum, I do understand that using crates can feel like a tougher decision for folks who have rescued dogs from very negative situations in which they have been cruelly caged or confined for lengthy periods. But for little puppies who have never had any adverse experiences with a cage, a crate can truly be introduced and used in a very positive and peaceful way.

    Saskia may take exception with things that I say here (and please feel free to do so, Sas!). But all of our puppies came home with us at the 8-9 week mark. And as I've already said, their crates became safe havens and also were really helpful in terms of toilet training. By instinct, a dog does not want to soil its den. And so a puppy will be less likely to choose to relieve itself while in a crate than when it has free rein of a room or the house. No puppy should ever be left alone and locked in a crate for a period of time that exceeds the capacity of its little bladder. And we always gave our puppies the opportunity to relieve themselves both before we put them in the crate and at any time that they came out of their crate. But during naptime, bedtime, and periods during the day when we were not available to be focused on monitoring the puppy's activity, their crates really were safe, clean havens.

    I'm saying all this based on the understanding that you and/or Bob are at home quite a bit of the time. For people who are working away from home, other arrangements definitely need to be made. Because it would be very cruel to lock a little puppy (or dog, for that matter) alone in a crate for extended time periods. But what I am talking about are briefer interludes throughout the course of the day.

    Bob and I are both retired. I really retired early and he retired early I guess too. With our two former doggies, we both worked full time.

    Also, I have to add that my experience has been with big, energetic, MOUTHY Labs who love to chew. The experience with little dogs may be very different. But their crates really were often the safest places for our dogs when we couldn't be watching them. I remember instead setting up an exercise pen in the kitchen and leaving baby Luna inside -- supposedly to keep her safe and confined while we were away from home for a couple of hours. She managed to push on the side of the ex-pen until she shifted it clear across the kitchen floor and got to the dining room carpet. When we got home, she had chewed up the entire edge of the carpet .

    LOL!!!! I know it wasn't funny...but having had Peaches who tore up the kitchen carpet, I know how you felt.
    Although of course I was not happy with the damage to the carpet, we were even more upset about the possible damage to her, should she have swallowed some of the carpet tacks, etc. So some homes may have rooms that are more easily puppy-proofed than others. But our house really does not have a good, safe place to confine a puppy. However, I always knew the puppy was safe in her crate.

    And clearly her time in her crate has not damaged her psyche . Because as I said earlier, she, Peg, and Barkis all three have loved their crates as adults. Peg and Luna frequently walk in-and-out throughout the day to lay down and sleep. There are occasions now when I do want to confine Luna in her crate while I am attending to Peg. All I have to say is, "Luna, in your box" and she absolutely RACES across the room to hurl herself inside. I always give her a treat once she is safely in there, and it absolutely cracks us up to see how fast she flies into her crate to turn around inside and claim her treat.

    As I say, there may be ways in which we have used the crate that others would think are not so great. But even if we have goofed up, our dogs have still ended up loving their personal dens. So they are testimony to the fact that crates do not have to be horror chambers by any stretch of the imagination.

    Marianne
    Thanks Marianne. I thought it might help to just answer in the body of your message. I need some clarification for when the door is shut and when you leave it open please. I have known dogs who loved their crates and voluntarily went into them.

    I am (so I say now) going to try to get this training thing better this time. Since I was working full time for the other doggies, not a whole lot of training was done. They were both very bright and kind of trained themselves with what they knew. We did training, but not structured training.

    Also-the table scraps. I'm pretty bad about that and I hope to change that. Palmer never begged....he just sat there very patiently. He knew when I was done I would pick him up while still at the table, or if I had meat scraps or something, I would head toward his bowl with him barely a step behind. And of course, it was not unheard of for me to sneak him a little piece of something while I ate. (I know this is BAD guys. I'm going to try to change!!)

    I have gotten way too excited about all this. I had acid reflux the entire day today and nothing I took helped. I also have these little red circles which have come and gone on my legs-about the size of a quarter. I had hives lots and often after Ryan was born and these little circles do not look like hives to me.

    Did I say I am taking the duck back to bed with me? Someone pointed out that I have said how I felt I was closing a door on Palmer. She asked if I was never going to think of him again. Of course that sounded very silly. She suggested I re-frame it knowing I'll always have Palmer and Bailey is just something new.

    Thank you for all your help.

    -Hugs,
    Susan

  9. #29
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    May 2010
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    Default Re: Bailey and Friends

    OMG, Susan, I am sure our time clocks are in sinc. I am counting down the days, too, as it takes my mind off my problems here for a while and gives me a much needed smile. Believe me, I will even be in the car with you. Please don't sit on me!!!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    So Cal
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    1,175

    Default Re: Bailey and Friends

    Yeah!!! So close to pick up time. I am jealous, I want a new puppy too!!!!

    What an adventure you will have and you are so much wiser this time around--haha!!!

    Have a great journey to pick up Bailey!!
    Marie, My Angel Girl Maddie, and Now Miss Ella

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