Apollo fought with grace and dignity to the end, My little angel warrior

[apollo6]

My little 11 year old dachshund was just diagnosed with Cushing diseases. My holistic vet has Apollo on Cushex, and supplements, and said I should get the Ach test, etc. test to make sure he has cushing diseases, which he has. I know I have to decide on a treatment.
The specialists is strongly suggesting Lysordern. I have also heard of Anipryl, and Tri (not sure of spelling will have to look up)
Would like to know what other pet owners have used to help their dogs with cushings. Pretty overwhelmed right now.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
from San Diego, ca.

[frijole]

Don't worry - we all came here overwhelmed. It is normal. You have taken the best first step you could by researching the disease.

Your vet is correct in that you must confirm the diagnosis. It is often misdiagnosed. So in order to help you it is important we know what tests were done so far. If you have the results that helps us too.

We all wish that holistic medicine (example those cushex drops) were a miracle cure but frankly - they don't work. Anipryl is often used with older dogs that cant handle lysodren or trilostane. Without doubt lysodren and trilo are the most frequently used now. Which is best is really dependent upon your vet's experience/knowledge as well as what type of cushings your dog has. Do you happen to know if it is pituitary or adrenal or atypical?

I'm going to link you to our reference section - start reading the general info and come back and hit us with questions. Don't worry... we will help you thru this. Glad you found us. Kim

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10

[littleone1]

Corky and I want to say hi and welcome you and Apollo to a very wonderful group of very special people. I think all of us were overwhelmed with the diagnosis of Cushings.

Corky was over 12 years old when he started being treated for Cushings. He is taking Trilostane. As Kim mentioned, holistic medicine is not the answer for treating Cushings.

You'll get very good information and support from our members, as they have a great deal of experience and knowledge in dealing with not only Cushings, but also other medical issues that occur in our cushpups. They have helped me through some very rough times.

Take a deep breath, and learn as much as you can.

Terri

[Nathalie]

Welcome to you and Apollo!

11 years is still quite young for a dog of Apollo’s size. So if it does turn out that you are getting a confirmed diagnosis of cushings, with proper treatment he can have many more happy years with you.
Cushings can be a bit difficult to diagnose as the symptoms overlap with the symptoms of other conditions such as diabetes, hypothyroidism therefore it is important to take your time and do all the necessary testing to get a firm diagnosis and rule out others.

My dog Phillip (Collie/Beagle) was 11.5 years old when I started treating him with Lysodren and 1 year later he is doing well on it and has not had much difficulties tolerating it – he will be turning 13 in September.

Lysodren and Trilostan has the best track record and due to costs and his vet not having any experience with Trilostan I decided to treat with Lysodren.

As far as I know there is nothing other then conventional drugs that will bring the cortisol down.
That does not mean you have to abandon a more holistic approach. Many of us supplement for various reasons eg. Milk Thistle to help the liver,
L-Glutamine to help recover lost muscle mass. Some people switch to fresh homemade diets to provide optimum nutrition tailored to their dogs specific needs. But first the cortisol must be controlled.

The best advise I can give you is to educate yourself to be the best advocate and partner in your dogs treatment.
Ask questions. It’s the unknown we tent to fear the most.

Looking forward to learning more about your pup.
Nathalie

[marie adams]

Welcome, We were new in February and really nervous about loading with Lysodren at first, but everyone here helped me through the whole process. They are still helping me--now on our second loading, but that is because my last vet was too conservative; which I was okay with in a way, then with all the knowledge these wonderful people shared with me being conservative isn't the best way. Learn all you can about the disease and the medicine and just keep askint questions. You will calm down.

Good Luck with everything!!

[SavingSimon]

My little 11 year old dachshund was just diagnosed with Cushing diseases. My holistic vet has Apollo on Cushex, and supplements, and said I should get the Ach test, etc. test to make sure he has cushing diseases, which he has. I know I have to decide on a treatment.
The specialists is strongly suggesting Lysordern. I have also heard of Anipryl, and Tri (not sure of spelling will have to look up)
Would like to know what other pet owners have used to help their dogs with cushings. Pretty overwhelmed right now.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
from San Diego, ca.

Oh, I remember when I felt like you did, sometime over a year ago - just absolutely overwhelmed and terrified. I found out Simon had Cushing's earlier than most owners (Simon is my best friend and a twelve year old Jack Russell Terrier) I also have six other dogs, (all Simon's fault, but that's another story. I also discovered there was "no advantage" to knowing early once I found out his Cushing's was pituitary dependent, like 85% of dogs with the disease. I took him to twelve vets besides the two I have known and trusted him with his entire life. Specialists, internists, etc. etc.. Every vet except the two I knew and trusted told me there was no downside to trylostane, to my surprise even the holistic vet I took him to said this (and I'm not much for holistic stuff for people or dogs, just so you know but I was willing to try ANYTHING). What I found in my quest for knowledge is that the University of TN has a Veterinary Endocronologist named Dr. Oliver who is THE MAN when it comes to Cushing's disease. To try and make this long story as brief as possible, let me just say, thank God I trusted the vets I trust instinctually and didn't just go with the opinion of those with more experience with Cushings that were really pushing trilostane. Before we started the trilostane, one of the vets did suggest I do some lab work on Simon, and find out how the cortisol was distributing itself in his blood. This test cost somewhere a little over a hundred dollars I think. But it saved me from making the biggest mistake I almost made in my life, and it saved Simon's life. It turned out, according to Dr. Oliver that Simon has "atypical Cushings" and that trylostane would have hurt and or possibly killed him. That is NOT the case in all, or even most dogs, but it is in some, and they are learning more and more every day that shows trylostane is not really much safer than the older medication lysodern. What Simon's bloodwork showed was that his cortisol is mainly being absorbed by the hormone estradiol in his system. Dr. Oliver told my vet that the best solution was flax seed hull for Simon. It mimicks estradiol, and therefore the flax lignans will absorb a lot of the cortisol that would normally be absorbed into his system and start making him a lot more symptomatic. He also recommended melatonin twice a day to prevent hair loss and thinning skin. Simon also takes Sam-E once a day for his liver, and milk thistle twice a day, for the same reason. For his little pot belly, he was originally prescribed Hills RD, but I have read a lot of research that says that ID is a better choice for dog's with Cushings. His disease has not progressed, and since we have just worked out his treatment plan within the last month, all I can say is I am already beginning to see some changes for the positive. I cannot tell you how surprised I am that holistic type treatments are the right answer for him. And I cannot recommend enough that your vet gets the test kit from the University of TN. Since I was about to cave in and try trylostane, against the better judgement of me, and my most trusted vets, because of all of the other "experts" I had taken him to, I really feel that this test saved his life. It is worth every cent. Simon's symptoms ranged from a newly ravenous appetite, when he used to be a "picky" eater. A "pot belly", and weakening of his hind legs (he was a Jack Russell with "springs in his legs" before the Cushings became noticeable.) He pretty much has all of the symptoms, except for only a slight bald spot on his tail instead of a large bald patch, and the one symptom that most owners notice first - the drinking too much and frequent urination are the main symptoms he does not have. The only way I knew he had Cushings was his Alk Phos level had doubled in six months, and it really wasn't terribly high. It was enough for my vet to mention it, and me to ask what it could mean. He said it could be Cushings, but he doubted it, because Simon was not having the symptoms most owners notice first and because it is very debatable how accurate an indicator alk. phos. levels are for Cushings - there are many other things that can cause it to rise and fall. But after his Dex suppression, and the other test (can't think of the name at the moment -ACTH stem?) there was no doubt that Simon was in the range of Cushings disease. That combined with his symptoms made deciding to treat or not to treat and how to treat if to treat an absolute nightmare. I feel your frustration, confusion, and depression that comes with this diagnosis. But trust me when I tell you it is not as dire as it seems at first. Simon also has some more rare symptoms, like licking the furniture until it is soaking wet, and some other things I can't think of now, but have confirmed are rare signs of Cushings. It is just unusual that he is missing the more common symptoms. Regardless, catching this early did not help other than it gave me time to figure out the best treatment, and to find the best diagnostic test to decide what that would be. I cannot recommend enough that you have your vet get in touch with the UofTN Veterinary Endocronologists and find out how the cortisol is distributing so that you can figure out the safest and most effective treatment for whatever stage of Cushings your dog is dealing with. There is so much more hope than I originally thought. There are so many treatments that are not so radical that they can cause your dog to get Addison's or crash. Read everything you can. Flax lignans help people with hormone problems also. Try the website flaxhulls.com and read about how they may help your dachshund. But first make sure they will help by getting that bloodtest. It is also good to get an ultrasound every 3to 6 months to see how your dog's liver and other organs are doing, because there are other medicinal and dietary aids. Your dog can live out it's full life span with this disease if you keep it in check and do everything you can. I am not saying that WILL happen for sure, but I am saying that there is a lot more hope than I was originally led to believe, and there are advances being made all the time in treatment. The most important thing to do is get all of the basic testing done, the stuff your vet will know to do, and then to be sure and send bloodwork off to the University of TN. I am honestly not here to promote any product, or endorse any person, or University, or anything like that at all - I am just telling you what I wish I would have known from the beginning. My vet was so excited about this news, and I have to say I am too - I am already seeing a change for the better. Exercise helps too to keep your dogs leg muscles from getting any weaker, and to strengthen the abdominal muscles. If you are like me, you will do any and everything for your best friend to have the longest and best quality life possible. If the time comes that Simon develops more symptoms (which may or may not, according to my understanding of the disease) trylostane is NOT an option for him, even though it is considered the safer option for many dogs with Cushings. Without the lab work at the University I would not have known that. I will keep you and your dachshund in my prayers - I know this news can be absolutely devastating, and yet after over a year I found out that there are answers that are kind of "outside the box" that really do work after all. I hope this helps you, and others that are depressed and discouraged over this diagnosis. I wish you and your dog many more happy healthy years together, and a year ago I thought my boy might not still be here - but I am thrilled to tell you, not only is he here, he is getting visibly better. Just be careful to do everything through your vet, and be sure that you get the advice and labwork of an endocronologist, preferably the one that is so well known for what he does, who is Dr. Oliver at the University of TN. Oh - and a quick note - I don't live anywhere near TN, but the bloodwork can be shipped out, and you should have results within a week of the best course of action for your dog.
Wishing you and your dog the best, and really hoping that my experience gives you hope and answers.

[frijole]

Apollo's mom/dad is trying to navigate how to post and sent me these test results earlier today. Sorry for the delay as I just got home to post them.

Kim

ACTH STIM TEST:cORTISOL SAMPLE 1-6.9UG/DL CORTISOL SAMPLE 2-37.0
URINALYSIS-Antech-NEGATIVE, SPECIFIC GRAVITY 1.017, OKAY I guess
Waiting for URINE CULTURE MIC RESULTS.
LAST BLOOD PANEL FROM 5/23/10-IMPROVED Amylase-1611(still high but in Sept was 6675
Lipase-improved 2776(still high but in Sept was5969)
Neutrophilis improved 6468(still high in Sept was 14168)
Lymphocytes went up 1176 was 966
WBC IMPROVED WAS 16.1 NOW 8.4
AST(SGOT) 88, ALT -827ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE-854, GGT-131( WERE WITHIN NORMAL RANGE IN SEPT
BUN/CREATINE NOW 62 WAS 34, PHOSPHORUS NOW 6.3 WAS 5.4-nOT SURE IF THIS HELPS. THANK YOU

LIVER OKAY, GALL BLADDER OKAY.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and a belated welcome from me and my boy Harley. I see from Apollo's ACTH stim test that his pre is 6.9 ug/dl and his post is 37 ug/dl. Now, his lipase and amylase levels are elevated also, which I do see that these numbers are coming down, but non-adrenal illnesses can cause false positive results on Cushing's tests. Elevated lipase and amylase levels can be indicators of pancreatitis in our furbabies. The cPL/cPLI test can confirm pancreatitis in ones pup, was this test done on Apollo? Please ask your vet/IMS about this.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[apollo6]

Originally Posted by apollo6
ACTH STIM TEST:cORTISOL SAMPLE 1-6.9UG/DL CORTISOL SAMPLE 2-37.0
URINALYSIS-Antech-NEGATIVE, SPECIFIC GRAVITY 1.017, OKAY I guess
Waiting for URINE CULTURE MIC RESULTS.
LAST BLOOD PANEL FROM 5/23/10-IMPROVED Amylase-1611(still high but in Sept was 6675
Lipase-improved 2776(still high but in Sept was5969)
Neutrophilis improved 6468(still high in Sept was 14168)
Lymphocytes went up 1176 was 966
WBC IMPROVED WAS 16.1 NOW 8.4
AST(SGOT) 88, ALT -827ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE-854, GGT-131( WERE WITHIN NORMAL RANGE IN SEPT
BUN/CREATINE NOW 62 WAS 34, PHOSPHORUS NOW 6.3 WAS 5.4-nOT SURE IF THIS HELPS. THANK YOU

LIVER OKAY, GALL BLADDER OKAY.

[frijole]

We have a member here who is a lab tech with over 20 yrs experience. If she sees this she can give you some input. The acth test does indicate high cortisol and could mean cushings. Did you do any other tests for cushings? Normally in addition to the acth test a low dose dex suppression test (LDDS) is done. It is an 8 hr blood draw test. I would recommend doing that to make sure it is cushings.

High ALK PHOS levels are signs of liver issues which could be cushings.

Lori asked about the lipase and amylase levels which can mean pancreatitus. Has Apollo had upset stomach/vomiting? Please share all you can about the symptoms. Thanks!! Kim