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Thread: Zoe By My Side- Our Journey with Cushings

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    San Diego, Ca
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    2,133

    Default Re: new member needs help - my Zoe, Lhasa Apso, may have Cushing's

    Dear Addy, I am new to this also. My vet /acupuncture/holistic referred me to a specialist in endocrinology. Told me to get these tests.
    ACTH Stim Test
    Blood pressure
    Urinalysis-Antec
    Urine Culture MIC
    full blood panel.
    The senior members can best help you. Also read up on the caine Cushing the resources . Don't just jump into the treatment. Hang in there. Ask questions and get info.
    Sonja and my little Apollo.
    Last edited by apollo6; 06-18-2010 at 02:38 PM. Reason: added info

  2. #12
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    Default Re: new member needs help - my Zoe, Lhasa Apso, may have Cushing's

    this is a link to looking up a specialist in your area
    http://www.acvim.org/websites/acvim/index.php?p=3

  3. #13
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    Apr 2009
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    Nebraska
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    Default Re: new member needs help - my Zoe, Lhasa Apso, may have Cushing's

    Addy, Usually Dr. Oliver from the Univ of TN writes a report with the dx and the recommendations at the bottom of the report. Can you type that if you have it?

    I can answer some of your questions. It is common to have multiple hormones elevated in cush dogs and the lysodren should help that. That is why lysodren is being recommended for treatment. I used it on my dog Haley. She was 12 1/2 when diagnosed and she just passed on 5/22 at the age of 16 1/2 so you can see the drug does work!

    Not all dogs have all symptoms. The ones you describe,except the diarrhea, are all signs of cushings.

    My concern would be the diarrhea. I would email Dr Oliver (nice guy, he'll read it and respond!) since he is THE GUY regarding this test. Tell him about the diarrhea issues. I wouldn't treat the cushings until I figured out what is causing the diarrhea and try to get her stools normal. (I know you have done alot already)

    I also noticed the cholesterol was high. Did he mention this in his report?

    Cushings is NOT a death sentence. And it does NOT need to be treated right away. I would continue to focus on the diarrhea. Has anyone ever mentioned Tylan to you? It is a powder antibiotic used to treat poultry I believe. It is not approved by the FDA for use by dogs however many vets recommend it. Just google it and read what many others are saying. You'll see that it is just a powder that you mix with food in very small quantities. I couldn't believe what I read about it. Very positive reviews.

    Glad you found us. Keep us posted. Kim

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Redding Connecticut
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    Default Re: new member needs help - my Zoe, Lhasa Apso, may have Cushing's

    Hi Addy,

    I am not an expert, but I just wanted to wish you and Zoe well on this journey. I have just started lysodrene therapy (yesterday) with my Great Pyrenees Sonoma, and I know what it's like -- all the ups and downs and frustrations. I have spent several thousand dollars on tests and medicine and special food, but more importantly, known the fear and frustration, along with subjecting my poor pooch to all these tests, all before a diagnosis was even given.

    This therapy procedure is terrifying to me, the icing on top of a very stressful time in my life apart from my pet's issues.

    I'll be sure to add anything if I discover any helpful tips during this next week. The posters here are amazing, much better than the myriad of vets I have consulted.

    Take care and try to get some rest! Things are always worse on no sleep.

    Karin

  5. #15
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    Default Re: new member needs help - my Zoe, Lhasa Apso, may have Cushing's

    Right now the chronic loose stools bother Zoe and me more than ehr Cushing symptoms but we have tried to fix this for 2 years. We get better and then in Spring it all gets worse. She always tests out normal for her stool problem. Internist thinks the lysoderm may fix the problem. I read it can make it worse or better depending. Seems like stress colitis, she is afraid of thunder storms and has dietary indiscretion, she eats something in the grass and I can never see what it is, I know she likes crabapples and bunny poop. She was doing better for 3 weeks on the Flagyl and now since I am trying to get her off the Shen Calmer and she ate something in the grass again, she is worse. I hate to up the flyagl again to 2 x a day. Vet suggest Hill's W/D at first but no way do I want to feed that to a Cush dog. Am I being too stubborn? Now vet says don't change food if we are going to treat Cushings as too many changes muddy the waters.

    Has anyone had loose stools that got better with lysoderm?

    I am at my wits end. I will try to get Dr. Oliver's last page, not sure why vet did not include it but she was working late and nice to call me after hours and talk for an hour.

    Also, she said she won't give me prednisone to have on hand. She said she would start on a low dose and it there was a bad reaction, she needs to come in and be seen because if it is that she can't tolerate the drug verses in crisis they need to know as I should not give prednisone if it is drug intolerance it would make it worse. They are emergency center 10 minutes away, open 24/7. Does this sound right?

  6. #16
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    Default Re: new member needs help - my Zoe, Lhasa Apso, may have Cushing's

    Addy, Yes, do get the recommendations from Dr Oliver. I repeat, I would email him directly to ask some questions - Assuming that Dr Oliver recommended lysodren therapy I would make sure he is aware of the chronic loose stool symptom. The reason is because diarrhea and vomiting are signs that a dog has too much lysodren. So if you go into this with diarrhea you will not necessarily know if it is from too much lysodren or not.

    That is why I suggested focusing on that first. I would be interested in Dr Oliver's take on this.

    Regarding the prednisone, alot of vets are not aware that a dog can go seriously low (cortisol) using trilostane. Read Lulusdad's thread (went too low late on a Saturday night and had to go to the ER) and Apollo's thread where we are having the same discussion here:

    http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/show...=2220&page=11-

    It is easy to say, drive on in but it is much easier to have it on hand. And it can save you an ER bill. Better safe than sorry.

    Don't know if you saw my mention re Tylan - I have never used it but I read such incredible testimonies from people who had been struggling with digestive issues for a long period of time and had tried many many kinds of antibiotics, etc. It is worth a few minutes of google research.

    Hang in there! Kim

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    north GA
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    Default Re: new member needs help - my Zoe, Lhasa Apso, may have Cushing's

    Addy - hi again.

    Based on Zoe's test results, it does appear that lysodren would be the best drug. For both the excess cortisol and all of those other hormone(with the possible exception of estradiol) that were out of range on the UTK panel. (Trilostane, on the other hand, can cause some of those secondary hormones to rise over time, and most of Zoe's are already out of range.)

    I agree with Kim on the diarrhea and not starting the lysodren until that is sorted out. It is NOT a cushings symptom and will make it harder to tell when Zoe is loaded (as soft stools/diarrhea are some of the signs of too much lysodren.)

    However, I did notice that your Zoe's folate/B12 test showed that the latter was elevated. The folate/B12 test is used to diagnose small intestinal bacterial overrgrowth (or SIBO). My Zoe also had that test and her B12 was ok but her folate was out of normal range. And that was what led us to try tylan on her (the drug Kim mentioned.) Not sure but I think usually, both are out of range in SIBO, but I was so desperate to 'fix' the problem that our IMS thought it was worth a try. I had just always figured Zo's intestinal issues were IBD - as an u/s showed that evidence. However, with her there was apparently more going on, higher up in the intestinal tract (the small intestine.) And the tylan did do the trick.

    So as Kim said, if you google tylan (or tylosin), you will find that it is used with good success in treating dogs with diarrhea and similar intestinal problems. Zoe's symptoms were soft stools, sometimes diarrhea, and really horrific gas. The drug is a fairly safe and inexpensive antibiotic, especially if you order the powder online and fill empty gel capsules (available at any health food store.) You wouldn't need an rx by doing it that way (as its sold to farmers for use in chicken and bee populations) but you would need your vet to figure out the right dose for Zoe. That just might do the trick for the diarrhea. I'd say it's well worth discussing with your vet before you start the cushings treatment. If your vet is unfamiliar with it, print out the info and take it with you to discuss. I may have saved some of my bookmarked links about tylan so will check and let you know.

    The only other thing is the prednisone. I think, especially with lyosdren, having some on hand is important. Dogs can drop too low at all hours of the day, night, week, weekend. I guess having an emergency clinic close by is a plus, but again, taking them there after hours can get real pricey. Sue
    Last edited by zoesmom; 06-20-2010 at 06:00 PM.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: new member needs help - my Zoe, Lhasa Apso, may have Cushing's

    Thank you all. I did google tylon and internist mentioned that was an option but since Zoe had been responding to Flaygl and I was used to it she said let's continue with it and it was fine until Friday night. But Friday I tried to again cut back on Shen Calmer and we had thunderstorms and company so maybe she got at something and the 2 combos sent her over the edge. Yesterday she was at the groomers so who knows what happened there and today soft mush stools continue even with Flaygy once a day. So maybe we need to switch and try Tylan. I will call her. I emailed a request to her for Dr. Oliver's last page and will follow up with a phone call tomorrow. Once I have that I will email Dr. Oliver.

    Internist said since Zoe responds to antibiotic treatment she felt it was bacterial overgrowth but she thought it might go away once we start treatment. I did read somewhere that it does sometimes happen but I also know lysoderm causes loose stools so I am worried about starting it.

    I guess at this point the prednisone is not an issue because I really need stool problem fixed first. I was just trying to get a feel for your thought on how accurate she is. Trying to assess her experience I guess.

    I really think some of Zoe's loose stools are from stress as well, but I wanted her off the Shen Calmer in case we tried melitonin and because noone can tell me how Shen Calmer works and the ingredients are in Chinese and holistic vet says, oh no problem but she is not always thorough and I am super parinoid now.

    Thanks for letting me ramble and vent. My Zoe is my heart and soul and I feel like I am loosing both. Too much stress, maybe I should use her Shen Calmer. (My attempt at humor while I cry)

    Should we change my thread title? We know now it is real diagnosis.

  9. #19
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    May 2010
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    Default Re: new member needs help - my Zoe, Lhasa Apso, diagnosed with Cushing's

    Andy and Zoe , what a sweetheart your little one is. This is tough. Glad to be of support. The senior members can be very helpful. Most importantly you should not be afraid to speak up for Zoe, if you have questions are not sure of what ever do not hesitate to ask your vet.

    this website shows the ingredients on the bottom but think in Chinese,
    maybe this might help

    http://www.euroherbsshop.nl/shen-cal...301300520b5ae6

    The input on this site is supportive. There is a lot of knowledge and experience here. I am just starting.
    Last edited by apollo6; 06-20-2010 at 10:28 PM.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: new member needs help - my Zoe, Lhasa Apso, diagnosed with Cushing's

    Today I found the courage to email Dr. Oliver and I received an auto reply he is out of the office until July 6th.

    Current thinking:

    If Zoe needs Shen Calmer for her anxiety could I not replace it with melatonin? I read there is some thought it helps fear of thunderstorms. Would that not also possibly help her coat? If the flax hull lignans are a laxative could they work like pumpkin and pysillium and possible be a fiber that could absorb water in Zoe and possibly help her stools if we find the right doseage?

    If the tylon is an antibiotic with anti inflammatory properties and leaves the body through the kidneys, I would not need to worry about Zoe's liver as with the metronidazole which leaves the body through the liver.

    Diet- Cushing dogs need high quality protein with low fat and low fiber and should not eat raw? Zoe is on commerical raw turkey with minimum 16% fat and her tablespoon on Embark has flax in it. Will that be too much flax? She only gets 1/8 cup of the Embark per dayand flax is the second ingredient.

    Also, if Zoe has "kind of sort of Sibo" is thay why she has such a sensitive stomach and has so much trouble eating new things?

    How come all her blood work and urine tests look so normal except for the colestoral which is the same as it was 2 years ago. I mean her alk phos is above normal but with her on going colitis issues, could that not be from her gastro stuff? Am I not reading her tests correctly?

    Just throwing all of this out there in case someone may have answers.

    Feeling much calmer since I know I have this group to turn to. Thanks guys!!!!!!!

    Addy

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