Mypuppy:Princess (10 yr. old Lab on Trilostane) - has crossed the rainbow bridge

[mypuppy]

My almost 7 year old Lab was just diagnosed with Cushings, and I am simply devastated and rather confused at the mixed information received from my veterinarian and an internal medicine vet. One says not to treat with trilostane because it could be fatal, the other says treat? Seems like a catch 22. Where do I go from here? Has anyone on this forum ever used holistic treatment for their dog with Cushings and was it effective? What will happen if I don't treat my dog? Her only symptoms right now are excessive thirst and urination and increased appetite. Will she develop the other symptoms, hair loss, etc. in time if she goes untreated? Please help. Would like to do the right thing for my pup, and give her a happy comfort zone while dealing with this disease.

[maggiebeagle]

I know you are overwhelmed right now, we all were when we first came here.
You will have replies from many members who have successfully treated their dogs with trilostane or lysodren. I believe a few members have used chinese herbs. I don't think anyone has had much success with the preparations sold over the internet.
You may have been told that the life expectancy after a diagnosis of Cushing's is only two years. Most dogs are over 10 when diagnosed and are dying at or near their normal life expectancy. Maggie was diagnosed three years ago and is about 13 now.
I'm sure someone else will be along soon to answer more of you questions. I just wanted to assure you that you aren't alone.
Virginia and Maggie

[haf549]

I know you must be over-whelmed with the news that your pup has Cushings, but please be assured that it is a completely treatable disease. Though both medications (lysodren and trilostane) seem scary right now, it proper procedures are followed, they can help your dog immensely. Others will pipe in here soon asking what tests were done to confirm cushings and asking you to post any results that you get. You will also get input on the 2 main drugs. My dog is on trilostane and has been stable on the drug now for 9 months. She is doing very well and is almost her old self again. I say almost, because, well, she is 12 and that's not young for a Siberian Husky. She's got arthritis and that can give her grief. But the basic result of using the trilostane is that she is much better. She just had a 6 month stim test and her numbers for that are normal (for a cush pup). I was talking to the vet yesterday and she said that often they won't treat the dog if they are not showing any symptoms. But, your's definitely has the clinical symtoms, so you are probably at the point where you will need to treat. From all I've read here, methods other than the Lysodren and Trilostane really don't seem to help. Your decision at this point will be which med.

Hang in there; there's lots of help out here.

Heidi & Kira

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and Welcome,

We are so friendly around here, and just starting out my post with "Hi...." so, what's your name, if you don't mind sharing it and what's your pups name. That's just the first few questions

We tend to ask alot of questions around here so we can get to know your pup better, that way we can help you help your pup, ok.

Cushings Disease is a very difficult disease to diagnose, it usually can not be dx'd with just one test, luckily it is a slow progressing disease which gives one time to make sure they get a proper diagnosis for their pup. A proper diagnosis is vital for a proper treatment plan.

What tests were done on your pup (Chemistry panel, CBC) could you post any abnormal results here? Could you post the results of any Cushings tests done here (LDDS test, ACTH, HDDS test) with the units. Does your pup display any other symptoms other than the ones you mentioned? How much does your pup weigh? Is your pup on any other medications or supplements? Does your pup have any other health issues? I'm sorry for all the questions, but like I mentioned, the more we know, the more we can help.

These people here are amazing, they are very knowledgeable about Cushings disease and have years of Cushings experience under their belts.

Hang in there, you are not alone, we are here for you.

Hugs.
Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome to you and your puppy!

Do you and your baby have names we could use? "Hey you, with the puppy!" can get really confusing around here!

Devastated and confused, huh? Yup, you're right where you are supposed to be for now. When I got the diagnosis for my Squirt, I fell to pieces ...started crying in the exam room, squeezing her til she could hardly breath, fighting a panic attack, just absolutely terrified and heart-broken. What I heard was, "Your dog is dying..." Thank all that is good, that is just not what Cushing's means - it is not the final notice!

But I didn't understand that until I got here and these kind, wonderful folks took me in and started my education...the most valuable thing a cush parent can have - knowledge. And I was a real mess when I got here! I, too, had been reading and talking for a while and was so confused...nothing I read made any sense, my poor old brain got things mixed up badly, and all I could understand was that my Sweet Bebe had this awful disease. I felt overwhelmed, helpless, hopeless, frustrated, guilty, angry, and yes, completely devastated.

As time has gone by, I have learned more and more about Cushing's and it's treatments and I feel much more confident and calm about the whole thing. (Notice, I didn't claim to be saner! ) The best thing you can do for your baby is educate yourself on Cushing's. The more you know the better off you both will be. You are your baby's first and last defense, their only voice, their advocate and knowledge will make you stronger in these roles. Please read the thread here, our Helpful Resource section and ask any questions you may have. We will do our best to help you understand.

We do play 20 Questions with new folks so we can get a better idea of the whole picture and be able to offer more meaningful input. So, here we go - How much does your baby weigh? Are there any other health issues you are aware of? Are they on any meds, supplements, herbs at the moment and if so what? What prompted you to have the Cushing's testing done in the first place? Do you have copies of those tests that confirmed the diagnosis and would you mind posting the results along with the units of measurement (ug/dl, mnol/L, etc) and the normal ranges for that lab? What tests were done to arrive at the diagnosis? Has an abdominal ultrasound been done?

Now, to your questions -
"Where do I go from here?" You have made the best next step you could have by coming here to us. For right now, try to relax a bit...then listen, read, ask, listen, read, ask and repeat. Thankfully, Cushing's is slow progressing condition and based on the few signs you have listed, you have plenty of time to learn a bit to help you make an informed decision as to how to proceed. Some things you can start doing that will of great help to you on down the road is to get copies of all your babies testing from now on, not the bill but the actual result sheets. Also keeping a diary of your babies behaviors - eating and drinking, pee and poop history, sleep patterns, any changes you notice, moods, etc. This way you don't have to try to remember when they pooped that weird purple stringy thing last month! A few things that need to addressed early on in the diagnostic phase are the ruling out of mimicking conditions like hypothyroidism and diabetes to name a couple. This can be done with the chem panel (blood work) so if you have those results, it would help to see them as well. And most important of all...start learning all you can!

Has anyone on this forum ever used holistic treatment for their dog with Cushings and was it effective? The term "Holistic" means a method of approach that looks at the whole dog; it does not mean no pharmaceuticals are used tho that is the common thought associated with Holistic treatment. Most of our members use either Lysodren (Mitotane) or Trilostane (Vetoryl) for conventional Cushing's treatment. Some of us treat another form called Atypical which is treated with melatonin and flax lignans, which could be considered a "natural" treatment. Several of us also used supplement and herbs to help our babies deal with the effects of Cushing's. If you are asking about TCM (Tradition Chinese Medicine) treatments, we have very few here to use that approach tho a few do include some Chinese herbs. If you are asking about things like Cushex, Supraglan and such that you find touted on the web - they are bunk and actually scary to me.

What will happen if I don't treat my dog? Here is a link that will answer this for you:

This one is about a few of the abnormal results that untreated Cushing's dogs may have:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...&S=0&C=0&A=628

Will she develop the other symptoms, hair loss, etc. in time if she goes untreated? Yes, more than likely.

Ok, now it's your turn...you must take care of yourself. It is so hard, especially at first, to relax, boy do I know that! But pulling your hair out, screaming at the computer, crying into the pillow, cussing your mate, and so forth don't help...trust me! So take a deep breath, lay your head back for minute and tell yourself that you and your baby are in good hands now. You kiss that big, ole blocky head and tell your puppy that ya'll now have a whole bunch of folks on your side who will help you both get through this. You don't have to take one more step alone, we will walk with you every step of the way.

I am so glad you found us and look forward to learning more as time goes by!

Keep your chin up!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

K9C Resource section:
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10

[acushdogsmom]

My almost 7 year old Lab was just diagnosed with Cushings, and I am simply devastated and rather confused at the mixed information received from my veterinarian and an internal medicine vet. One says not to treat with trilostane because it could be fatal, the other says treat?

Just curious - which Vet is saying what? I would make a guess and say that the Internal Medicine Specialist is the one who wants to treat?

Where do I go from here? Has anyone on this forum ever used holistic treatment for their dog with Cushings and was it effective? What will happen if I don't treat my dog? Her only symptoms right now are excessive thirst and urination and increased appetite. Will she develop the other symptoms, hair loss, etc. in time if she goes untreated? Please help. Would like to do the right thing for my pup, and give her a happy comfort zone while dealing with this disease.

Left untreated, the dog usually develops internal organ damage due to high cortisol production, in addition to all of the symptoms that you can actually see. It's the organ damage that is very important to try to prevent by treating with a proven to be effective cortisol-lowering drug, such as Trilostane or Lysodren. We have folks here treating for years with one drug or the other, and whose dogs are doing really well. The so-called natural treatments (for Canine Cushing's) don't work, in my opinion. Cushing's is a serious disease that needs to be treated with serious proven medications, such as Trilostane (Vetoryl) or Lysodren (mitotane)

Here's a link to where you can read about some of the medical complications associated with untreated Cushings Disease:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195

If your dog has been definitively diagnosed with Cushing's, then what you need to do is probably to have faith in the Vet who believes that treatment with trilostane is a good thing. And partner with that Vet to be a team who is dedicated to getting your dog well again.

My dog was treated with Lysodren by a Specialist and he did wonderfully well for more than 6 years. I'm sure you'll be hearing from our members who are treating with trilostane and who have found it to be a very good choice for their dogs.

[littleone1]

Hi and welcome,

Back in January my Boston Terrier, Corky, was diagnosed with Cushings. I had never heard of it before. My vet recommended not treating it. I got a second opinion, and that vet recommended treating the Cushings. I was also in contact with a vet in CA, who gave me valuable information in the past. She also said to treat it. If it is left untreated, it could affect the organs, and cause a lower quality of life for our babies, along with congestive heart failure. For some reason, Corky's clinical signs started to disappear, and his tests came back in the normal range. His signs were then in remission for 7 months, and started to reappear. Corky was recently rediagnosed with Cushings. He has a right adrenal tumor. He has taken his 7th dose of Trilo this morning, and seems to be doing well. I know, it really did a number on me, but this group has been very supportive, and has so much valuable information to help make this journey a little easier to cope with. There are also so many links on this site that will give you information that is really needed by us.

I wish you the best in making your decision.

Terri and Corky

[forscooter]

Hi,

I wanted to add my welcome and tell you I had two dogs with Cushing's. I lost one last Christmas and still have my other. We used Lysodren to treat but I have been around long enough to assure you that either medication can be a true lifesaver. I am also curious as to which vet doesn't want to treat it?

At 7, your pup still could have many more years. The 2 year rule, although I question its validity, is if we take it as fact, an average. That means there are dogs who live less time and dogs who live much much more. I have witnessed many dogs who have been on the end of much much more. So, there is no reason not to have faith in treating in my opinion. Many people are amazed how much better their dogs are on treatment.

That being said, I do have another question....and that is, does your pup have any other illness or condition(s) that would cause your vet to recommend not treating? If there is/are, depending on what they are, then I would suggest having that be a consideration. But barring that, I can tell you that treatment can give you your "old" dog back....one that is healthier and happier.

We all understand how overwhelming and scary this time is for you....we still feel that way sometimes ourselves. But this is a disease that can be managed and we walk each step at one time together. You will have a lot of support here. You read and learn as you can, and before you know it, you will be feeling much more confident!

Many hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scooter

[jrepac]

7 yrs old is too young not to treat...unless other complications are present? It is odd for a vet to describe treatment as "fatal", particularly w/trilostane. Trilostane and Lysodren do have associated risks, that you need to be aware of. Trilostane was approved in the US earlier this year and many have used it w/success; some feel it is LESS risky than lysodren, but his may be debateable. Other, less popular/less effective drugs are anipryl (selegiliene) and ketoconozole; a few of us have used/use those too. Various herbs and supplements can help with symptoms of the disease. Many (most?) here are using something else in addition to an Rx treatment.

I would get the diagnosis fully confirmed first; perhaps get a full adrenal panel from University of Tenessee and go from there. Others may have mentioned, but you want to make sure what form of Cushings you are dealing with, e.g., Pituitary or Adrenal (non-pituitary), which would drive treatments. Plus, atypical cushings could be in the mix as well, so the UTK full adrenal panel is a good one to have, if you have not done an ACTH test yet.

No need to rush; take time and look into treatment options.

Good Luck

Jeff

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi,
I also wanted to welcome you and your puppy. You have already received so much good information and have been asked a lot of good questions. I just wanted to add my little story of what can happen to an untreated pup, which is why I am glad you found us.

I was one that did not find this forum back in 2006 when my girl was first dx’d. I was afraid of the treatment my vet offered and chose not to treat my baby girl. Besides all the damage done internally that you cannot readily see, I witnessed my healthy girl physically and mentally deteriorate. She lost the strength to use steps, so I built a ramp, eventually did not have the strength to climb the ramp. So I would carry her outside. When I tossed her favorite ball, she would try so hard to go after it but just couldn’t without falling on her face. She didn’t understand why she couldn’t fetch her favorite ball anymore. I watched my little athlete that loved to run, do backflips and swim get to the point that I had to hold her to stand up and do her business. My point really is that if I had found this forum of well experienced members, I would have been encouraged to treat knowing I had access to so much help, experience and resources.

I can only urge you to get a thorough and proper diagnosis. Read as much as you can, do not be afraid to ask any questions or raise any concerns you might have.

BTW - Love to know Puppy's name and we do like pictures of our pups