Tipper - adrenal tumor/breathing issues

My 10 year old loyal, intelligent, and wonderful Jack Russell Tipper has been diagnosed with Cushings. She is all I have I have no family left. Tipper is like a child to me, and this has rocked me and taken me to my lowest point. She had all the testing done, I have a specialist that consults with my Vet, and she is on 20 mg of Vetoryl. The first day she was on it I saw a big improvement in her symptoms. She is going today to get her bloodwork to see if her dosage is correct. One of my biggest concerns is her breathing. It is especially noticeable at night. It appears she is having more difficulty than usual breathing. She snores, and at times has a throaty sound like dogs do after they have had a tube in their throat for anesthesia. I am wondering if someone could help me and explain what exactly is causing this to happen. I know it is the disease, but what specifically is this disease doing to cause her to breathe like this and snore? She has only been on Vetoryl since the 25th of August 2012. Will this subside after she is on it for a while? I am so frightened of this disease and losing the best companion I ever had. I find myself just breaking down several times a day. If this is managed by Vetoryl will she be able to live her life out? I am so terrified of this disease that I was afraid to look at the side effects of the drug, as she needs it to go on. I am hoping this drug does more good than harm. I love her more than life, and cannot even imagine my life without her. I need some tips on feeding her, and any supplements that are beneficial. I guess the things I should do, and the things I should not do! When Tipper was a puppy she had allergies and they had to use Prednisone at times to control them. This is what predisposed her to this. It is in her pituitary gland. Sometimes I see some neurological signs, she will go in a circle, and wag her tail real fast. She also is doing the licking. She has all the classic symptoms, panting, excessive water drinking, pot belly, hungry all the time. She does not have any skin issues as of yet. I also had her urine tested and it was fine- she is concentrating her urine with no protein in it, and no uti's. Once you start them on meds does this stop the muscle wasting? I thank anyone who can help me in advance as I am terrified of losing my girl. I will post her test numbers after my Vet visit today, as I see that helps.

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HI!
Welcome to the group. My dog just started on the meds. Today is his 3rd day. I have also noticed my dog snores more often in the last month since he was diagnosed.

Since I am so new to all of this I don't have any medical advice. I just wanted to say hello & welcome.

You will love all the people here & get lots of good advice & shoulders to lean on.

Hang in there..

Thank You so much for the welcome. It is heart warming to know others will care and help you thru this.:

Hi there, my girl Kona is 10 years old and has never snored in her life until this cushings thing, now she too snores up a storm. I asked my vet about it and she had no answer so, sorry I dont have an explanation for you either but just wanted you to know that it does seem to be related. I find comfort in it now, when I hear her snore I know she is at least sleeping comfortably. Today is her third week on the meds and things are going ok. She is also on the 20 mg daily.

Hugs, Kona and deb

Hi and Welcome,

I am so glad members have been stopping by to welcome you. We have a bit of a list fo questions we usually pose, consider routine:D

Could you tell us how much Tipper weighs?
Could you tell us how Tipper was diagnosed?
Which tests were done and what were the results?


I am so glad you have an ACTH scheduled. Please let us know the results.

Dogs are treated with Trilostane to alleviate symptoms and usually, yes, are on it for the rest of their lives. The dose may need adjusting, sometimes, more, sometimes less but does indeed have to be monitored on a regular basis.

Quote:

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One of my biggest concerns is her breathing. It is especially noticeable at night. It appears she is having more difficulty than usual breathing. She snores, and at times has a throaty sound like dogs do after they have had a tube in their throat for anesthesia.

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I am not sure why this would be. If Tipper had allergies as a puppy, sometimes, when we drop their cortisol, we will see issues that the dog was using the cortisol to self medicate, so allergies could crop up.
That is just one thought. My Zoe snores, but she has done that loudly with and without treatment.

I am so happy you found your way here. You will find a wealth of support and information. My Zoe was diagnosed 2.5 years ago. We started treatment with Vetoryl in June 2011. She has quite a few health issues but which makes treating her a bit of a challenege but I am able to do it, thanks to the wonderful people on this forum.:D:D

It will get easier.

Welcome and hello!!! I don't have any answers for you regarding the snoring and I don't think I have ever asked the vet but Bo (cushings) also snores. Snoring is not a typical thing seen in poodles and my other poodle doesn't snore. Hmmm, cushings related?? Idk but when he is snoring I know at least he is in a deep sleep and resting comfortably. Hope you find some answers.

All of you are truly wonderful, and I am so glad I found this haven where you can let out you biggest fears, love your dog like you would a child, and have people support you for it. I have experienced "the real world" thoughts like " it's only a dog!" I am a retired account executive, so I am with Tipper 24/7/365. I typed a lengthy answer to the questions you all asked, only to realize my time was up and the message was gone. I have now checked the remember me box, so here we go. Tipper was not actually diagnosed by my Vet, but by me. She had started all the symptoms described in my previous message. I kept telling the Vet something was wrong and he kept explaining it away on other things. He is a country Vet, and probably not too much experience with Cushings. Finally I talked him into testing her for Cushings. Sure enough this is what came out of the tests:
The sonagram showed adrenals that were much larger than usual.
The ACTH test: Pre 6.4 Post: 27.9
Dexamethasone Supression Test: Pre: 7.6 Post 4 hours later was 1.3 then after 8 hours was 1.0.
Tipper was started on 10 mg.Vetoryl on August 23,2012. She was started on a low dose as she can be allergic to many things. The Endocrine Specialist (Dr. Mark Peterson who has the only clinic in the world for this), is who got to consult with my Vet, and he agreed. I started to notice an improvement in her after her 1st dose. By evening the symptoms were starting to come back. On August 25th she started on 10mg in the morning and 10 mg in the evening. She weighs 17 lbs. She had gained some weight due to all this, before she was 16 lbs. Her cholesterol which she never had a problem with shot up to 325 and tryglicerides to 572. The specialist said it was from the Cushings. The 2 doses seemed to help the symptoms from becoming full blown in the evening. Tipper had another ACTH test and early detection profile done yesterday. The results will be in tomorrow and I wil post them. This, I assume will tell us if we are managing her correctly, or if she needs the Vetoryl increased. I am feeding her Hills Science Diet WD. It is for diabetic dogs. She fortunately is not diabetic, but the nutritionist at Hills told my Vet this is what she should be eating. I also consulted one of the primary nutritionists in the country Shawn Delaney from California Davies. He said these dogs need a low density diet. I could not find a way to safely make her food so I opted for the Hills. The Vet is of the opinion that too much protein could cause kidney problems. I am not so sure it is the best method however. I have read many places where these dogs should be getting Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Selenium, and Fish Oil. These have to be done a certain way, and controlled a certain way and I am not sure how to do it. Does anyone have any experience with these supplements, and diets. I could sure use help. I am trying to be proactive, and good nutrition is a must to help her body deal with this. I really need to control her weight as she is starting to have some changes in her rear legs- like not laying the same way, and watching how she jumps. Xtra weight can make leg problems worse, so I have discussed Adequan shots and Duralactin with the Vet. He said after we make sure she is managed, they might be a good idea. Anyone that has used this, I could use some input, in the event we have to use them. Just one final note. When I got Tipper as a puppy she had a white tip on the end of her tail, hence the name Tipper. She is by far the most intelligent, crazy, and loyal dog I have ever lived with. I love this dog, and am willing to do whatever I have to do to insure I will enjoy her for years to come. This disease terrifies me, but everyday I wake up to her is a blessing. Thank you all, and bless all of you and your wonderful babies. Tipper's grateful mom.

Well, Dr. Peterson is pretty darn good:D:D:D

I think you are off to a good start if he is consulting with your vet. The ACTH test if that is what was done will tell you if you can stay on the current dose or if it needs tweaking. Cortisol can continue to drop the first thirty days( and more) so sometimes we don't change the dose on the first stim test.

Not sure what to tell you about the food as I always read they need a high quality protein. But I don't think you want to change things or add things when you are first starting treatment.

I am sure members will be by to give their thoughts on Adequan shots and Duralactin.

I am so glad you found us.:):):):):):)

Thank You Addy for the encouragement, I am trying to deal with this the best way I know how. I appreciate all the help, this is a godsend!

You picked the best specialist you could to help your country doc. Just keep yourself involved like you are doing to help monitor to make sure the country doc is 'getting it'... I say this cuz I live sort of in the country so it can be scary. ;)

Anyway... I have used both duralactin and adequan on two different dogs. Adequan I used with my cush dog Haley and it seemed to give her relief for her arthritis as she aged.. she passed at 16 1/2 and had no real leg issues .. just walked slower. I used adequan with Annie to help strengthen her weak legs (from a tumor) and I believe it was helping her. Problem was she wouldn't eat anything with any regularity and the pills were vanilla flavored and she hated anything sweet tasting. Anyway.. I do believe it is a good product. If you google it you'll be hard pressed to find negative reviews on it.

Good luck! Kim

Welcome from me, too!

And it is certainly true that it is your good fortune to have Dr. Peterson consulting with your vet. :)

One quick question, though. Are you certain that these are the correct numbers for the diagnostic LDDS results?

Quote:

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Dexamethasone Supression Test: Pre: 7.6 Post 4 hours later was 1.3 then after 8 hours was 1.0.

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By any lab norms with which I'm familiar, this would actually be a "negative" result for Cushing's. Usually, the 8 hour result has to be higher than approx. 1.4 or 1.5 to be consistent with Cushing's. I am just curious as to whether Dr. Peterson had any comment about these results. I've read elsewhere that "negative" LDDS results are usually quite reliable, with only a small percentage of dogs who test negative on the LDDS actually having the disease. But especially if the disease is in the early stages, a dog may have a negative LDDS but return a "positive" on the ACTH. And that apparently is the conclusion re: your dog, especially in light of the bilaterally enlarged adrenal glands. But as I say, I'm just curious as to whether Dr. Peterson had any feedback about this LDDS test.

Marianne

As a fellow Jack Russell Terrier lover, I wanted to welcome you! I have two JRTs. Alivia is 14 1/2 years old and was diagnosed with Cushing's 1 1/2 years ago. Maxwell is 12 and, fortunately, healthy as can be. JRTs certainly are intelligent and can definitely steal your heart. Mine are like kids, so I do understand your attachment to Tipper. Actually, I think it's safe to say EVERYONE here understands that!

You are in the right place. The people here have a wealth of knowledge and are a great support system. Cushing's is a terrible, awful disease, but with the proper combination of treatment (prescription drugs, supplements and nutrition) it can be managed and many dogs live long, full lives. It is terrifying at first and certainly can make your head swim with all there is to read and learn about. You are definitely on the right track by having your vet consult with Dr. Peterson.

As for nutrition, I have mine on a high protein, low fat diet (Evanger's canned). Both of mine seem to be doing very well on it. Cush dogs can be prone to pancreatitis (Alivia had a severe bout a year ago and was hospitalized for 5 days), so a low fat diet is important. Along this journey you'll be the best advocate for Tipper and you'll figure out what works best for her. Relax. Take a few deep breaths. ;)

Looking forward to seeing some pictures of Tipper when you are able to post some!

Mary Beth:
My god your dog in the picture is a dead ringer for my Tipper. I will post some pictures of her as soon as I can. Thank you for the encouragement and help.
Tipper's Mom

Marianne:
Thank you for the help and support. Dr. Peterson did see the results of Tipper's lab work, and I am assuming that it is like you said that Tipper was caught in the early stages. The Vet just called me and said all Tipper's blood work came back good, and that the cortisol was in the normal range now. I will post the results after I get them next week. Thank all of you again!

So, Tipper looks like my Ali? No wonder you adore her so much! It's those soulful, intelligent eyes...they'll get you every time! ;)

That is AWESOME news that Tipper's bloodwork was so good! Can't wait to see a picture of her!!

Mary Beth and Alivia:
I just noticed that you are from Pgh. I lived there my whole life and just moved about 5 years ago to the Ohio/ Pa border. I bet the doggies have lots of Steeler wear!! Tipper has many Steeler outfits, but they don't like them so well in Ohio. We think it's rather funny to wear them here. I am so glad Tipper's bloodwork cam back good. Yesterday she played with her toys, played ball, ran around the house, and went for a walk. She had an exceptional day, which I am grateful for. Every day I wake up and see her face I am truly blessed.
Tipper's Mom ,and Tipper- we call her Tipper the Ripper as she is such a ham, and runs through the house so fast you can barely see her!!

Mary Beth and Alivia:
I posted the picture of Tipper in her car seat. She absolutely loves to ride in the car in this seat! She usually sports her Doggles and it makes people laugh to see a dog in a car seat, and having sunglasses on!

Well, I am not Mary Beth and Alivia but the picture of Tipper is sure adorable.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Thank you Addy. Tipper has been having a few "good days" playing with her toys and her ball, running through the house, and causing mischief. I hope she continues to do well, as I am always terrified somethng else will happen. It seems you are always waiting for the second shoe to drop! I noticed that on the days the humidity is up that Tipper has more difficulty breathing, when I walk her. At times I end up carrying her home. Has anyone else had this experience? These Vetoryl capsules are hard to get down her, I wish they were tablets instead, as these capsules tend to stick in your throat. I found a good way of giving them to her though. I stand over her like she was a pony, lift her head up and it is easer to insert this capsule going backwards towards her than from the front. She seems to be aware that this is helping her, and never fights me. This dog is such a blessing to me I wish she could live to be 100.

I am BEYOND thrilled to hear that Tipper is doing so good!! I agree, I wish they could live 100 years, too. It is so unfair that even under the best of situations, their lives are so short. I once heard that is because dogs are born knowing the things it takes most people a lifetime (if ever) to learn.

Sounds like Tipper is doing really well at taking her medicine. You're lucky! Alivia is a master at trying to avoid any meds!

Love the picture of Tipper in her car seat, but I would really love to see it bigger. When you get a chance, please see if you can add to your page in an album. It's pretty easy to do.

So you are from Pittsburgh originally?! Small world. I actually live in Pittsburgh, but don't follow the Steelers. I think I am about the only one here that doesn't, so don't tell anyone! :D

Again, great news at Tipper's improvement. You take such good care of her.

Tipper has been doing ok on her Vetoryl, the symptoms are subsiding, but in one of my posts I said I was waiting for the "second shoe to drop", well it has. I noticed Tipper having some neurological signs. She would put her head low to the ground and turn it to the right, then go in a circle and fall down. I have noticed this 2 times in as many weeks. I had seen her months ago before she was diagnosed, go in a circle, and thought she was just fooling around.
Since she had pituitary dependent cushings, I assumed it must be a tumor on her gland pressing on her brain. I am guessing these episodes are seizures. After reading the Macro Tumor material on here, I have just sunk to a new low again. After foolishly thinking I could manage the cushings and she could live her life out, I just got a punch in the gut from this. I am wondering if anyone has had experience with this, and radiation treatments?? Is it even worth considering this. I have just cried all day over this. I somehow thought I could maintain her for a few more years, and now am feeling quite hopeless again. I need some advise. Thank You all in advance for your help, as I am falling apart again.

Hi Tipper's mom,

Here is a link just in case you missed it about macro tumors - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3567 and are some great links to in this thread - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229.

Has your vet mentioned performing an MRI to determine if the tumor is growing?

There are many here who have experienced this and I know they will check in shortly.

I do not have any direct experience in macro tumors, but it could be something all together different. My girl exhibit this behavior and it turned out she had a bad ear infection and this was also throwing off her balance.

Keep us updated and big (((hugs))) - we are all here for you in sorting this out.
Terry

Thank You Terry I will make sure the Vets checks Tipper's ears again to see if it could be that.

Hello there! I think that when a macro tumour is present, there are a few different symptoms together that present themselves. They come on gradually and can be very vague. I have just posted my story over in the thread which Terry gave you the link to. Like you said, get his ears checked out-it could easily be something as simple as that. Just keep an eye on him for now and take note of anything else unusual.
As for treatment (if it is a macro) well.....it's a hard call. It depends on a lot of things. How old is Tipper? How strong is he? Have you got the money? It's a very...and I mean very expensive procedure! Like I said, don't get yourself paranoid just yet. When I was researching Maya's symptoms, I found Tonnes of illnesses with the same symptoms. It's hard to know.....
Hugs from Leah and Maya

Maya:
Thank you for the help. I am going to look up the other things that present with a macro tumor. I will have her ears checked the next Vet visit.

Don't go macro just yet. Have the vet do a thorough checkup and blood work to see if anything is off that might be causing the strange side effects you're seeing.
Then monitor to see if the effects are progressing or not.

I love the pictures of your crew btw. What a great bunch!

hugs,
Sharlene

Sharlene:
Thank you for the help I truly am going thru this by the seat of my pants. This is so scarey that I cry all day. I cannot imagine my life without my precious Tipper. I have Lupus and she has been with me thru all of it. I think I am alive today because of the happiness she brings me. I am not sure about getting an MRI. I am scared to death to put her under, and the stress is getting to her with all the tests. Anyway, if you don't have thousands of dollars to treat the tumor, what good is the MRI? I don't think I could put my dog thru radiation anyway. I am having a hard time pilling her now. She is resisting me. I called Dechra and they said absolutely don't let her chew the capsule, which is what ends up happening. Does anyone have any good ideas as I could sure use some. Thank you all I would be lost in space right now if it wasn't for this forum.

I don't think you need to think about an MRI unless any other possibilities are ruled out and then you have to consider whether or not you are going to be able to treat it if it is macro. There really isn't much that can be done if it is. Prednisone for the swelling is a normal treatment.

I'm sorry that you have Lupus to deal with on top of this but how great that Tipper has been through this with you. I know it's a hard disease to deal with.

Hugs,
Sharlene

You can try things like peanut butter, cream cheese, plain butter - anything that is soft enough to form around the pill and that Tipper really likes to eat. Sometimes these things will help disguise the pill and help it slide down plus make it seem like treat-time instead of pill-time. Some pups will gladly take the meds in a Pill Pocket - my Squirt hates those things! :rolleyes: If all else fails, there is a product called a Pill Shooter that literally shoots the pill down their throat.

I want to tell you that I fully understand your feelings about Tipper. My Squirt saved my life when I couldn't save myself. For nearly 15 years, she has been the one constant in my world; always by my side, always the one to come kiss my tears, always the one to bring laughter and hope. When she was diagnosed with Cushing's, I thought my world had ended. Instead, my world opened up to such wonder and magic like I never imagined. We have made some wonderful friends from all around the world and I have learned about things I would have never given a second thought to before. Tho I still fear "the day" I know is coming, Squirt and I are even closer, our bond even stronger. Most importantly, we are never alone...and neither are you and Tipper. Your K9C family will be right by your side all the way, holding your hand, lifting you up when you fall.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

I am so glad you brought this to my attention. I have been giving Boriss his pill in Peanut butter with a green bean on top. He has been tired of the peanut butter lately. yikes! I think he might have chewed a few pills this week. :o

Good luck with sweet little Tipper. The word Macro is the scariest word.:( I am hoping the best for you & Tipper. I know what you mean about your baby pulling you thru hard times & being there for you. Boriss is my world...

I thank you all so much! I cannot do this without you. I am terrified every time Tipper does something odd. I am always worried I will wake up and she will be gone in her sleep, as there are many things I need to say to her. She is my constant companion, and her strange aloof behavior saddens me. Sometimes she seems to not know where she is. I feel like I cannot make it without her. Thank you all for being there to help me go on with this. I had never heard of this disease before, and it is the most horrible thing ever. It worries me that since Tipper has the pituitary dependent cushings that this tumor is growing in her head, and the Veteroyl can only help the cortisol. I am afraid to even look and see if these tumors are fast growing, as I will just cave in. Thank you all again I need your support more than ever, and my Tipper needs your prayers.

we are all here for you.;) It is a terrible disease & can be over whelming. I am glad we all have each other & the ones who came before us with all the knowledge. I will be saying prayers for you & your sweet Tipper.

Boriss:
Thank you for thinking of us. Do you happen to know the supplement you can use to help gain back muscle? If so does it make them sick in any way? Thanks for your help.

I don't know much about all the different supplements. I haven't tried much with Boriss cause he is so sensitive to everything. I am sure someone else will come along with more info on that. ;)

I do use glucosamine for my dogs joints. I have a bulldog with some hereditary issues & it seems to help her a lot.

Glucosamine Condroiton and fish oil can help with leg weakness.It's best to give these supplements after a meal-on a full stomach. I remember Maya had severe weakness in her hind legs before being diagnosed with Cushings. Once she started the treatment, it got better.
Leah and Maya

hmm, I don't know of any supplements that help gain back muscle, but maybe someone else here knows of something. All I can think of is slow steady exercise.
I give Molly glucosamine for joints and liver supplement. None of those have ever made her sick.

Hang in there. Try to find that inner calm place that is one of strength. This is usually a long road with cushings or any other kind of sickness with our little ones. Slow but steady as they say, wins the day, and I hope that this will be true for all of us.

Hugs,
Sharlene

To Everyone:
I found the supplement for the muscle wasting- it is L Glutamine. I am going to ask my Vet if it will help and if it is safe. I just don't want to cause any stomach upset, and make the Vetoryl come up.

Everyone:
I did some research on the L Glutimine- good thing I did as you are not to give it to a dog that has had seizures. For others it was said to be helpful and definitely helpful if the dog get pancreatitis.

Hi Tipper's mom

Pituitary tumors are usually benign. I think less than 5% become/are macros. A more common reason for strange behaviour is ear infections as others have mentioned. When is Tipper's next ACTH test due? Just wondering if her collapsing might be because of rear leg weakness. As someone who has witnessed both focal motor behaviour seizures and grand mal, what you 've described doesn't really match what I've seen. But as you would have noticed, all of our fur babies do things differently.

Jane, Franklin and Angel Bailey

Oops, forgot to add that Cushing's can cause an enlarged liver, which in turn compresses the lungs. Due to that, a cush pup often pants more.