Buttercup (Calcinosis cutis) - Buttercup is now in heaven

Oh gawd, I feel your pain and I too sometimes get that red rage at the unfairness of it all especially when it is one thing after another. Glad you have hear to come and let it out. I don't have any experience of Bell's Palsy in dogs but I did have it when I was a kid. Woke up with the whole droopy eye thing going on and a nasty headache too which would be something Butters does not need right now. It came right over a few weeks, just temporary paralysis of that facial nerve. I had to tape my eye when sleeping so it did not dry out when it was not closing properly. Poor Butters, I hope this is just a wee annoyance for her and will come right quickly. x

Dawn:
I have read all your post and know how you have struggled to get your Butters to a better healthy state. I am so sorry this is all happening to you. I feel that way with Tipper a lot. I get one fire put out and another starts blazing from out of no where. I am hoping this is the last thing you have to deal with. This journey can be really difficult and God knows never seems easy. Just know I have been at your frustration level many times with Tipper too. I am praying for some really good things to start for you and you baby. She is so beautiful that the things this disease can do are criminal. Blessings
Patti

Dawn, sending you huge hugs. I don't blame you one bit, that is rage worthy.
Bells Palsy, so what did the vet say, will this pass in a couple weeks or so like with humans? Do you just need to keep her eye wet? I read lubricant drops every 4 - 6 hours and an eye antibiotic.

Argggh, this must be so frustrating when everything else was getting sorted out. :(

hugs
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Zoe's opthamologist has us using Genteal Gel for severe dry eye- must get the severe to keep her eyes lubed. we buy it at Target, it is cheapest there. Maybe you could ask if you could use that for Butters.

No, none of this is fair and I dont blame you for going into a rage, I do the same thing, blame it on our red hair, (yup, I'm a redhead) you just need to get it all out.

Dawn, you do the best you can for as long as you can. This disease is not always easy and crap comes up and it is not fair, none of it and our pups dont deserve it at all. I know you are just hanging on and you have been doing great, so great, dont let that damn Bell's Palsy take that from you. Girl, you just go beat the crap out of that Bells Palsy anyway you can.

I used to wonder why God sent me and Zoe on this journey, what was the message or lesson to be learned? I dont know I ever discovered that answer and you might not either.

Somehow, we find the strength to go on.

my flynn suffered from it too. it is rare, but secundary to cushings. he got moderin for a week. his eye was ok then, his lip never healed. he sometimes bit on it, which was sad.

First 24 hours on trilo ok, her morning BM normal, she ate just fine. Just gave her meds.
Her vet said to use the gel drops if I'm not going to be around her for a few hours and at night.
Hey, was any one else instructed to wear gloves when handling Trilo , Davis sent gloves with the med and the package states WEAR GLOVES. Have not seen this on anyone elses pages that I have been reading.
After thinking long and hard on yesterdays event, I would say that the Bell's Palsy is the lesser of the 2 evils, very releived that her teeth and gums are fine nothing broken and no infection. So here we go again with her headaches, will keep her as comfortable as possible with out totally doping her up, a little drewel here and there is ok to, keeping paper towel in pocket , and an eye that dose'not blink properly is ok to. Hoping it won't take long for the inflamation to go down on that nerve and that her blinking will be restored, could be days or weeks , just have to be patient . I'm also aware that she could be like this for life and or it could happen again.

Dawn and her teacher,life coach, best friend and traveling companion on this long and winding road, Miss Buttercup.

Dawn, I'm sorry to hear about Buttercup's Bell's palsy. I hope her eye gets blinky again soon. Butters is so fortunate to have you as her advocate.

Dawn:
The things you describe about Butter's just made me cry a river, was very well put together. Blessings
Patti

Hi Dawn, we had one other member tell us in January that she'd been warned to wear gloves, too. In all my years on the forum, these are the first I've heard about such a warning and it is not included in the official product insert for Vetoryl. The greatest caution seems to be for women who are pregnant or trying to get pregnant. Aside from that, I've only heard warnings to wash hands after handling the drug.

Is Buttercup's medication in capsule form? If so and it is 10 mg., I'm assuming it must be brandname Vetoryl since compounders cannot exactly duplicate an FDA-approved finished product. Is the written warning to wear gloves something that Davis has added to the packaging themselves?

Marianne

Dawn,
not to complicate things but bell's palsy often follows exposure to Lyme disease.
I had a boss who had both, the bell's did resolve after a few weeks.

Has Butter's been tested for Lyme?

Davis tested her for everything, we do not live in an area that has issues with lyme disease, we are in the san francisco bay area.

Yes it is 10 mg capsules and yes it is brand name, Davis added the label to wear gloves. Since I can not get pregnant does it really matter or not whether if I wear gloves?

Dawn

Ok, it was an idea.
Now that I think of it, I know two people who had Bell's and in both people, it resolved and you wouldn't know today.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dawn Anderson

Yes it is 10 mg capsules and yes it is brand name, Davis added the label to wear gloves. Since I can not get pregnant does it really matter or not whether if I wear gloves?

Dawn

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Can you email Davis and ask them about the basis for their warning since it is not a warning that the manufacturer includes nor is commonly recommended by other centers or pharmacies. Maybe they think they know something that others do not. :eek:

Marianne

Marianne, the warnings may come from the Safety Data Sheet for Trilostane. A quick bit of research revealed that the GHS (Global Harmonized System) is a system of classifications and labeling of chemicals. The Safety Data Sheet does list Precaution Codes P264: Wash {hands} thoroughly after handling and P280: Wear {protective gloves/protective clothing/eye protection/face protection}. They also list P362+364: Take off contaminated clothing and wash it before reuse. I don't think UC Davis instructs their clients to do this. I do know that Safety Data Sheets are routinely used by OSHA and suspect since this is for 100% concentration of the chemical, these precautions would definitely apply to anyone in working in manufacture, processing or packaging of the chemical, but not so much pet owners who are administering a finished drug.

I have an audio of Dr. Feldman that predates Vetoryl and he said that he instructs his clients to not open the capsules to split the dose but he knows that some of them do because they can't afford to waste what they have when they need to do a dosing adjustment. It could be that those warnings insure that anyone foolish enough to open a capsule will wear gloves and wash their hands.

Drs. Foster and Smith also has a similar warning on their Trilostane Page.

https://www.caymanchem.com/msdss/14164m.pdf

Yes, I agree with you that the Safety Data Sheets relate to production workers as opposed to pet owners. Probably the SDS for virtually any drug carries a warning, though, re: the use of gloves among workers who are handling it and that doesn't typically translate to warnings for consumers. It has not been the norm in the past for owners to be instructed to wear gloves with trilostane, so I'm wondering if Davis has determined that there is some new sensitivity to be concerned about. If not, it seems to me as though they're likely to scare the crap out of people unnecessarily and maybe make some owners shy away from even giving the drug. :o

Marianne

Marianne, I was thinking that too. Something as scary as being instructed to wear gloves when handling makes it sound much less safe than it is. Not that there aren't risks, but it seems a bit overkill.

It's possible that UC Davis is just taking precautions in case their clients may be pregnant or trying to conceive. Vetoryl's safety sheet filed with the FDA states that Trilostane has caused early pregnancy loss in laboratory animals. I do know that the lab animals they are referring to were monkeys. It is much more common for a vet to tell a pet owner to wear gloves when handling Lysodren for the same reason. I did find the Dechra pet owner handout on Dermcare's site. I couldn't figure out who Dermcare was until I found their name on one of Dechra's financial statements as being the company that launched Vetoryl when it was approved in Australia. Anyway, the handout says wash hands and do not handle if pregnant or trying to conceive.

http://www.dermcare.com.au/images/ve...yl_handout.pdf

Read everything to daddy and he still want me to wear the gloves, he is certified in safety data ( he is the shop foreman at the dealership) and said that there is a reason for the label and gloves that were sent with the rx and that I am to follow the instruction, he will bring home a couple of boxes of gloves from work so that I don't have to keep reusing the set that I got with the rx. Like he says safety first.
So I will wear the gloves which I think is over kill since I CAN NOT get pregnant, to keep him happy and peace in our house.

Dawn and Miss Buttercup

He worries about you And Buttercup. I can't fault the man for that :) My husband would be the same. Is the same. :)

I don't know if it is just due to pregnancy concerns or if there is something new, and I can certainly see where Davis would want to take all precautions since they tend to know the canine patients but not necessarily the health of the humans involved.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Oh, I love your daddy. You do what he says and count your blessing that you have him with you. My daddy passed 29 years ago and not a day goes by that I don't think about him. Give your dad a big hug for me and tell him I think he's great.

Glynda

Oh, I know how you feel. In Elliott's last six weeks I felt like things just kept snowballing--I can't even write it all down or I'll get too upset. So many additional problems kept coming up to the point of RIDICULOUSNESS. It's not fair and not right to have so much happen to these innocents.

You are doing an amazing job.

You are OH so right Jen, just 1 thing after another, our poor pups, this whole cush thing is really insane and it will drive you insane if you let it.

Thanks for the support

Dawn & Buttercup

Butters is showing all the signs tonight of having a UTI, took her out when I got home, then 10 minutes later back out, then once back inside she went to her wee pads and would circle and tinkle circle and tinkle, she did that for close to 10 minutes and to top it off she had hardly drank any water all day, her bowl was way more then half full. So I'm sure her ut test will be positive for an infection AGAIN. She just finished taking those industrial strength AB a week ago Thursday.
Poor girl she just can't seem to catch a break can she.

Is there any supplement I can give her to help support her UT? Her vet kind of pooppoos on supplement so I really can't go to her, but if you guys have any suggestions I will run them by her IMS at Davis.

Thanks Dawn and Butters

I found that giving probiotics to support the gut really helped. All those abx can be taxing to the system. I think boosting the immune system is the best course. As for other supplements, you need to be careful not to over acidify or alkanalize the urine. I have also heard they cranberry supplements are counter productive to abx, so you might keep that in mind.

Any recommendations for a particular probiotic ?

Thanks Dawn

Just found this article stating that in female dogs a recessed vulva could be the cause of recurrent UTI's, the article has some pretty graphic pics: Recessed vulva: An overlooked cause of chronic UTI in dogs

Man those were graphic, thank god she doesnt have that issue. She never had UTIs till this Cushings reared its ugly little head:mad:

Thanks Dawn

Dawn:
I was told to get a good quality yogurt and give them some. Tipper only had one so far thank God. Butters just can't catch a break like Tipper. Blessings
Patti

I've heard yogurt too. Not Greek yogurt, just plain regular yogurt.

doxiesrock912, do you know why the a differentiation between greek and regular yogurt? does greek yogurt have fewer live cultures? My dog is SO astonishingly picky she differentiates between brands, and she will eat greek yogurt but not regular.

Dawn, is there any indication of what bacteria might be involved? Pansy's cultures kept growing e. coli, and I did some reading that indicated using D-Mannose in conjunction with cranberry extract might be helpful for e. coli specifically.

I personally do not rely on yogurt to provide enough probiotics when you are dealing with recurrent UTI's. The vets have some probiotics, fortiflora is one. I have always used the ones from B Naturals, which I order in the big 5lb size and just keep in the fridge. Not all probiotics are created equal, so definitely look for quality.

You can order fortiflora from amazon too. I use it with molly too. It's good stuff.

Sharlene and Molly muffin

Good call Sharlene, I didn't know it was on Amazon. I always see it at the vets office. :) I have heard good things about it too.

It is a fortune for me to buy it from my vet, but then everything here in Canada vet/animal related is a fortune and always by prescription. I check periodically and can find some things on amazon.ca and grab them when I do. LOL I can always get it from amazon.com which I use for some friends rescues. I would think the online pet pharmacies would have it too.

hugs
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

I have found so many meds cheaper at California Pet Pharmacy. They have 30 count box of Fortiflora for $20.50. I buy my Metacam there for a fraction of what other pharmacies charge. In the future, I'll be checking prices for all my canine meds. You don't have to provide an actual script for meds, just your vets name and number. They call and get confirmation from your vet. I believe they also had Vetoryl cheaper than most as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lulusmom

I have found so many meds cheaper at California Pet Pharmacy. They have 30 count box of Fortiflora for $20.50. I buy my Metacam there for a fraction of what other pharmacies charge. In the future, I'll be checking prices all my canine meds. You don't have to provide an actual script for meds, just your vets name and number. They call and get confirmation from your vet. I believe they also had Vetoryl cheaper than most as well.

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This is where I started getting my vetoryl from, and yes, it is an excellent price. And, bonus: they have great customer service!

I have gotten things from them too and they are a Vipps pharmacy.

Yeah, lab work back , no growths, no UTI, yeah

yeah! :) Always nice to have some good news :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin