Questions about Cushings - Charlotte has crossed the Bridge

Its been a very trying day today. Lots of pacing, she hasnt wanted to eat much and i havent seen her drink at all. I gave her a few small syringes of water which she swallowed just fine but she isnt interested in drinking water from her bowl today. This of course worries me to no end!

I was able to get an appt on Wednesday with the Bowen practitioner. She feels she can help Charlotte be more comfortable and said she was reading up on cushings and the macro tumors. She also called a holistic vet she works closely with and said he had some suggestions as well. Today i have had many moments where i wondered if we are even going to make it until Wednesday. Tomorrow is a new day, i hope its a better one.

Laurie

Good morning Laurie,

I really hope Charlotte is doing better this morning. I know the feeling well of, will he make it until Wednesday? Skippy is eating but he is now sleeping or laying about 23 hours a day. He is on the BP meds as his BP last Friday was well over 200. I saw your question about milk thistle then found this article:
https://www.mpg.de/8951851/silibinin-morbus-cushing

I'm going to email them and ask if they have started their planned clinical trials. Maybe grasping at straws...

BTW, Skippy goes back to the IMS on 4/4 and they have recommended trying Lysodren; I'm not there yet.

Dear Laurie,
I'm so sorry Charlotte is having a bad day. Have you tried giving her water out of a people cup or coffee mug? Whiskey likes that. Hope today is a better day for your sweet girl. I'll be thinking of you,
Annie

I posted this on Carole's (Skippy's Mom) thread but wanted to post it here as well.

Thanks for the article on milk thistle Carole, very interesting! I'm so sorry to hear about Skippy. I'm glad he is still eating, and I assume he is drinking. Charlotte won't drink so I have been putting small amounts of water down her via syringe. ***I tried what you suggested Annie but she wouldn't drink from a cup either. Very scary!

Charlotte had a very bad night last night and at 3am I had pretty much decided to call the vet in the morning and arrange to end this for her. However, i got a message this morning from the Bowen therapist and she wanted me to know she had a supplement at the pharmacy waiting for me to pick up. She also moved our Wednesday appointment up to tomorrow morning so I'm going to see what happens over the next few days. The supplement she ordered for me is turmeric which I was well aware of. I had made a golden paste for Charlotte a month or so ago but I couldn't get down her since she wouldn't eat anything added to her food. These are capsules and the vet this therapist works closely with highly recommends them. Here is a link to an article he sent me:

http://www.turmericforhealth.com/tur...og-brain-tumor

I would also like to try the milk thistle but I'm only going to add one thing at a time. I'm headed over to pick up the capsules now and I'm hoping I will see some improvement with them and the treatment she gets tomorrow morning. Charlotte is sleeping peacefully right now after having a fairly high dose of pred and tramadol early this morning. I will keep you posted on our progress.

Laurie

Hopefully the turmeric will help. Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Hugs, Lori

I hope that she has a better night tonight and that the tumeric helps. Maybe the vet will have some ideas.
Do you think hanging her head maybe gives her a headache? or maybe she has an upset tummy? Have you given her any pepcid to see if that will help?

Let us know how she does overnight and what the vet has to say tomorrow.
We'll be right here with you!

Thanks Lori and Sharlene! I can't even express how much the support of everyone here has helped. My husband is on the road and will be gone for awhile so it's hard feeling so alone and not knowing if each day will be her last.

She has had a decent day, still pacing but seems more aware and not so panicked. She even chased a stick a couple of times when I was out playing with our shepherd. She ate some meatloaf but still not drinking on her own. I will let you know how the appointment with the Bowen therapist goes tomorrow. I'm not familiar with this treatment but I'm willing to try anything right now. She had 1 turmeric capsule earlier and will have another before bed. Hoping that will help too!

Laurie

I'm crossing fingers for a good night!!!

Oh I don't know how I would have gotten through my journey with Molly without this forum!!! I'd have been lost and more stressed than I was anyway, but they saved my sanity more times than I care to remember. LOL

HUGS

I hope you and Charlotte have a good peaceful night... poor girl. I hope the new treatments help her feel better. We're thinking of both of you...
-dayle and alva

Charlotte had her first appointment with the Bowen practitioner this morning. She seems to have responded well and is resting comfortably without much tremoring. Below is a link that explains the Bowen technique better than what I can in case any of you are interested.

http://thebowentechnique.com/what-is...wen-technique/

It's day 2 of the turmeric supplement so we will see how that goes. We are hoping it will reduce the inflammation enough to be able to wean her off of the prednisone. She still isn't drinking on her own but has an appetite for her meatloaf. I was told by a vet in Tennessee, who I contacted via email, that the herbs she was on can cause a reduction in appetite but nobody can really offer a suggestion as to why she won't drink on her own. Its not like she wont use her tongue because she will lick things when im handing then to her and she has licked things in her food bowl. Its very odd.

As I'm typing this she was outside barking at something so that's actually a good sign. She is a fighter and we will continue to do our part to help her with this battle!

Laurie

How did Charlotte do overnight? Is she drinking yet on her own?

No Sharlene, she isnt drinking on her own yet. I fear the tumor is causing that part of her brain to not function properly and her tongue just doesnt know what to do. She wouldnt eat this morning either but i got some water in her, and her pills. Ill be home at lunch time and if she hasnt improved im calling the vet to see if she can come out to the house today. Im devastated but i have to do whats right for her.

Laurie

I hope you find/found her in much better shape at lunch. Please keep us informed and know we are right by your side.

((((Hugs))))

Laurie, I'm right here with you, too. If Charlotte does have an expanding tumor, I think you're exactly right. The tumor can be placing pressure on the part of the brain that controls responses to thirst and hunger. That's exactly what happened to my boy. I am surely keeping you both in my heart and my thoughts this afternoon.

Marianne

Me too, Laurie...

I am so sorry Laurie. I dealt with a probable macro tumor also. It's is definitely a tough position to be in. One of the toughest things to deal with on this forum, in my opinion. :o Many of us have been where you are right now. You are not alone. We stand by you.

Gentle hugs for our sweet Charlotte and many more for you,

Kathy

I'm here too Laurie I hope she is improved but whatever happens we stand with you as always.

hugs

Thank you everyone. I'm home now and she has not improved. The hardest thing is that she met me at the door and then went out and chased a squirrel. But after that she just went back to pacing and refused her meatloaf so I know its time. I have a call into the vet that has come to our home for our other dogs so I'm hoping she is available. This poor little girl has fought so hard, she's so tough, but it's time to let her go.

Laurie

Laurie, I know that seeing her chase that squirrel was so hard for you. But it means she is making her passage while she is still a proud and brave girl. There is that strong part of her spirit that remains, and this way it will always remain forever.

Sending so many hugs to you across the miles.

Dear Laurie,
Sending you comforting hugs across the miles from all of us here.
Annie

Laurie... I am so sorry. I hope your preferred vet is available, and will be keeping your family in my thoughts.

Shana

dang it, I'd really hoped to hear she was better. :( It's good though that she chased a squirrel, she does have a strong spirit. Sometimes the body lets down way before the spirit does. I felt that with molly too. It doesn't make any of this better situation though.

We're right here with you! HUGS

Laurie,
I am so sorry; you and Charlotte have fought so long, so hard, and so bravely. But ultimately we must all make a decision to set them free. Your decision is a courageous and compassionate one for Charlotte. I'm thinking of you and your family.

Thinking of you and our sweet Charlotte.

Hugs,
Kathy

Just a note to let you know you are on my mind.
Hugs,
Leslie

Hi Laurie, just checking in to say thinking of you.

Laurie -- Just wanted you to know that my thoughts and prayers are with you.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and prayers! I wanted to check in breifly to let all of you know that Charlotte is still with us for now. The vet we have used for home euthanasia (who is wonderful) has not gotten back with me so i took that as a sign that the timing isnt exactly right. I dont feel Charlotte is in pain or in dire need of being set free from all of this so im going to give her just a little more time. Yesterday she tremored much less than she has for days and slept very well with minimal tremoring. She wanted to be close like she used to, with her head on my shoulder. I going to see the man who works with the Bowen practitioner today. He is a medical research analyst who is in the process of writing a couple of books on holistic treatments for humans and pets. He has some suggestions for Charlottes situation. Im curious to hear what what he has to say, even if its too late for Charlotte. I will share what i learn later today when i get home from work.

Oh and Carole, i added the milk thistle to Charlottes supplements yesterday and after that was when i noticed her doing better. May be just a coincidense but i will be anxious to hear if you feel it helps Skippy.

Laurie

Laurie,
What a roller coaster you and Charlotte are on; I hope that the emotional uncertainty isn't taking too huge a toll on you and that Charlotte remains stable for as long as possible. I haven't given Skippy the Milk Thistle yet but I will tonight. Please take care.

((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))

Thanks Carole, I won't pretend it isn't hard but I'm glad she is still here with me. She was so sweet last night when she cuddled up with me in bed and put her head on my shoulder and just stared at me with such love. That made it all worth it!

I met with the medical research analyst today and he had some very interesting information. He suggested I look into several supplements for Charlotte: APF for Dogs (utilizing adaptogens which he gave me some info on to read about, it's on my reading list for tonight), Max Immune Forte and Adrenal Harmony Gold. At this point I'm going to order the APF and see how she does with that. I was impressed with the little bit he told me about it and look forward to learning more. I will also continue with the turmeric supplement and I have added milk thistle as well. Although she still isn't drinking on her own she has seemed a little more energetic and responsive the past 24 hours. I'm trying to stay positive but also live in the reality which is Cushings disease. I will keep you all posted.

Oh and a side note... the vet I called yesterday for home euthanasia returned my call today. She knows the man I met with today and the women who gave Charlotte her Bowen Therapy treatment and she encouraged me to give this a try.

Laurie

I've been thinking of you today and wondering how your sweet girl was doing. And you too of course. How sweet that she cuddled with you, she knows you're trying everything to help her and she loves you for it. Hoping and praying for you all.

Annie.

Hugs and prayers for you both as you go day by day.

Hi. I'm so glad to hear that Charlotte is still with you.
It is a horrible roller coaster ride and not the fun kind.

Big Hugs!

Laurie, I spent a couple of hours trying to find more on cabergoline.

Here is what I found so far:
http://www.nepvma.org/docs/1CushingsDiagnosisAndRx.pdf

"Cabergoline The presence and inhibitory action of dopaminergic receptors in the anterior pituitary lobe is well known, and dopaminergic drugs such as bromocriptine and cabergoline, have long been used in dogs to inhibit the secretion of prolactin for reproductive problems. Carbergoline is a dopamine D2 agonist with a higher affinity and longer half-life than bromocriptine. Dogs with Cushing's disease can have pituitary tumors that arise from either the pars distalis (anterior lobe) or pars intermedia (intermediate lobe) of the pituitary gland. In both cases, it is known that the secretion of ACTH and alpha-MSH can be inhibited by dopamine. In another recent study by Castillo and colleagues (2007), 40 dogs with PDH that were treated with cabergoline (0.07mg/kg/week, divided into every other day treatments). The only side effect observed was vomiting, which occurred 1 hour after taking the first and/or second dose; no additional vomiting was observed despite continued administration. Out of the 40 dogs treated, 24 (60%) responded after the first month whereas 16 (40%) failed completely. Of the dogs that showed a favorable response, 7 of the 24 later became non-responsive with return of clinical signs of Cushing's disease. Therefore, a full prolonged response was observed in 17 (42.5%) of the 40 dogs, which were followed for up to 4 years. A year after the treatment, there was a significant decrease in ACTH, alpha-MSH, urinary cortisol/creatinine ratio, and of the tumor size evaluated by nuclear magnetic resonance. Dogs responding to cabergoline lived significantly longer than those in the control group. Overall, cabergoline appears to be useful treatment for dogs with Cushing's disease. Additional studies are justified, especially to see if combination treatment with mitotane or trilostane would improve the response." Also:

http://betpharm.com/downloads/cushingscastillo2008.pdf
https://link.springer.com/article/10...102-009-0209-8

Much of the research seems to be on people Cushing's, that is equally horrible, but may have application to pups. One article I read suggests that combining Cabergoline with the K_______________drug that used to be used to treat Cushing's may be effective. Overall, way too little research. But I agree, our dogs are not experiments but we are too rapidly facing life saving versus life limiting choices with little to lose. Take care.

Thanks for sharing all your research Carole. Very interesting and im going to speak to our local vet tomorrow about this. As much as i want the holistic supplements to kick in and work, im worried there may not be time, if they are going to work at all. I feel im getting close to having to make a decision, she is getting harder to pill and isnt liking the water syringe. Its no way to live if she isnt going to get better. But thats the hard part, im just trying to buy time to find something that will shrink the tumor and make her better and give her some quality years. Its that fine line between quality of life and giving up too soon. This is where a crystal ball would come in handy.

Laurie

Hi Laurie,
Skippy had an MRI today and it confirmed a 11 cm macroturmor. Don't know next steps or if there are any. I will meet with Purdue folks next week at their convenience. Don't know what to do next, if anything.
He is still eating and drinking; fattening frogs....

Im so sorry Carole! Please keep me posted on what you learn from Perdue. Charlotte is still hanging in there but so far i havent seen any changes from the new supplements she is taking. Im just hoping she holds on long enough to give them a chance to work. I know holistic treatments take awhile and im not sure how long she has. I havent yet talked to the vet about cabergoline.

Thinking of you and Skippy.

Laurie

We said goodbye to our sweet Charlotte today. My heart is broken. She fought so hard but this afternoon, after a fairly normal morning, she started running frantically through the house and I couldn't calm her down. I knew it was time. The tumor had taken over and although today I was there to give her some tramadol, which settled her down quickly, I couldn't let this happen while I was at work and she could hurt herself as well as being alone and scared. My client who is a vet came out to our house and it was very peaceful but it was so hard to say goodbye. In 3 short years she worked her way into our hearts and she will never be forgotten. Fly free baby girl, we love you!

Laurie