Buttercup (Calcinosis cutis) - Buttercup is now in heaven

Thanks Marianne,

Still learning about this. I shot off a e-mail to the Vet and ? why this was even performed since we already know that she has PDH. The test was originally requested by the Vet at UC Davis and my Vet just followed the request from the Vet at Davis. I have now exhausted her ins. for this illness & must spend our money wisely and finding out that I just blew 233.00 for a test she did not need.

Just got of the phone with her vet & she explained the reason why Davis wanted that test performed. Apparently she had a stim test done on 1-6 and she was in the high end of normal, so this test was needed to meassure the signal that the pituitary it sending out to the adrenals & since the signal is 3 times were it should be we will be starting her on trilo after she has finished her AB. She will get 10mg in the am & 10mg at night. I will start her on them on Feb 8th which is a saturday so that I can monitor the first 48 hours. I will take her in for a stim test 10 days later.

Now that we are moving into phase 2 I'm once again in unfamilar territory. " The medication Phase"

Thanks Dawn & Butters

Dawn! You will do just fine with the meds. You can do this! Just keep gathering information, and be ready. Starting very low is good.

I am ordering that spray too. :)

Dawn, thanks so much for the explanation! I'm very sorry for worrying you unnecessarily. This is the first time I've seen the endogenous ACTH used in this way, so Butters is definitely providing an education for me, too!

Marianne

I've never seen the endogenous ACTH used in this way either, so I'm getting educated too!

Dawn, we will definitely help you with the "The medication Phase." ;)

Hugs, Lori

I don't understand the rationale for doing an endogenous acth test to validate a borderline acth stim test either. Everything I've read indicates that there can be an overlap in plasma acth concentrations between healthy and dogs with cushing's, which is why an endogenous acth test cannot be used to diagnose cushing's. I can only speculate that because the acth concentrations were so high, the vet felt there must be a definite disconnect between the pituitary and the adrenals, thereby lending more diagnostic credibility to a borderline acth stim test. Unfortunately, I can't find any credible, science based resources that would support that theory. I do know from past research, prompted by my bald pomeranian with high sex hormones, that the results of one study on Pomeranians with sex hormone derangements showed that some of these dogs with high 17OHP concentrations had higher concentration of plasma acth than healthy dogs. I don't recall the magnitude of elevation and I'm not sure it would be relevant anyway. That's just my two cents worth and without further evidence to the contrary, I remain uneducated on the subject of using the endogenous acth test for diagnosing HAC. :D

Ok, Lulusmom, you just hit me with a curve ball, what is HAC? Butters is a very different case as per Davis due to the size and overall location of the tumor, if the tumor was a half a cm bigger she would be dead by now. The radiation is shrinking the tumor and so far she has regained vision in her left eye, which she had lost due to pressure from the tumor, head aches I would have to say are gone, knuckling her paws over has been corrected, and since the radiation is still active , the tumor will continue to shrink. With everything that I have read about other pups being misdiag and dosing issues that so many have experienced that almost killed their babies, I want to make sure that all bases are covered, as per the multiple US that were performed to ck her adrenal glands and each showed that they were in good shape considering how hard they have been working . We are starting low 10 mg twice a day because of the borderline and just need to block enough of the ACTH message that the adrenal is receiving and sine the tumor is still shrinking, the message from the pituitary to the adrenal will continue to change at the same time, so it will be a real juggling act to keep track of the message being sent with out the test that she had. So as the tumor goes down so do the numbers and if we do not keep a.close.eye on that number while medicating her we could really screw her up and make her very sick, which would be devastating after all that she has been through. We are now 2 months post radiation(11/25,26,27) and as per the radiology dept the radiation will remain active for a other 4 months . Butters was very lucky to have been able to get the radiation treatment that saved her life and during the next several months her numbers will be constantly changing.

HAC is hyperadrenocorticism aka cushing's syndrome.

Duh, I've gotten so used to PDH and ADH that I forgot the H=HAC

Thanks Dawn

Butters had a nickle.size piece of CC pop of tonight and underneath it the skin is normal colored and healthy, Yeah way to go Butters, finally seeing positive changes in her skin condition.

Great news Dawn! Butters is on her way to recovery :)

Not that it has any bearing at all on Butters' situation, I just thought I'd document the fact that the endogenous ACTH does have value, too, in conjunction with Addison's diagnostics. This way, for future reference, we'll have a fairly complete discussion of the endogenous ACTH consolidated in one spot (So thank you Dawn and Buttercup for letting us hijack your thread!). Here's a link about testing in conjunction with Addison's:

http://thehormonelab.com/handbook/ad...disons-disease

Quote:

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Endogenous (plasma) ACTH
ACTH concentrations can be useful in distinguishing primary from secondary hypoadrenocorticism (see differentiation in Canine hyperadrenocorticism section). Dogs with primary Addison’s have very high levels of ACTH, usually greater than 500 pg/mL. Dogs with secondary Addison’s have low or undetectable (< 5.0 pg/mL) levels of ACTH.

---

Marianne

Dawn:
That is great to hear that Butters is getting new skin underneath all of the CC. Hope she continues to improve as both of you have been thru enough. Blessings
Patti

that is the beginning of a new beautiful coat i hope!

Just updated her cushings album, included a pic of her dropped toes. just when 1 things starts to improve another 1 rears its ugly head,, grrrrrrr.

Dawn & Butters

Wow, she is getting some good hair growth coming in. :) How does it look over all? red or pink? I think it should be pink now and on the healing side of the line where the hair is coming in. It doesn't look angry in the areas you photographed. How is it on the rest of her body.
Oh poor baby, those toes don't look comfortable at all.
You're doing great.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

Some areas are still very angry and other areas are looking good, of course since she is such a large dog we still have a long road a head of us.

Dawn:
That's ok as she is a work in progress! I am glad that she is healing though as that CC has to be the worst thing about the Cushings to manage. Blessings
Patti

Dawn,

I'm so glad that she's improving! That CC just looks to be so miserable and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Dawn, I just looked at your album of the CC. My heart aches for poor little (big) Buttercup! I truly hope it gets better; both of you are in my thoughts. Praying for a speedy recovery and some relief for both of you!

Buttercup never ceases to amaze me!!! This morning she started to act like her old self, she was pushing on me for MORE attention and actually gave me kisses freely without me having to ask for them, she was a real big wiggle worm, then she got tuckered out, but that was OK, lord knows shes got soooooooo much going on between the CC and now her toes, it just amazed me to see her acting like the happy go lucky girl I feel head over heals for. Good job Butters!!!!!!

Everyone have a wonderful weekend

Dawn & Buttercup

Oh Dawn, that brought tears to my eyes and I'm so happy for you and Butters. It sure sounds like she is on her way to recovery tho it seems ever so slowly. I hope she improves every day from here on and enjoy her life to the fullest which she so deserves especially when she has a lot of making up to do. I'm just so happy for you.:)

Dawn, I am so happy to hear that Buttercup was giving you kisses on her own. What great news. :) It does the heart good when things like that happen.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Slow and steady wins the race for Buttercup! Give her a kiss from us too!
Shelly and Lucy

PS finally got our spray from Amazon… using on the still chunky spots

Your story is inspiring! We are considering radiation therapy for a macro tumor (my Ralphie also has CC - started about a month ago and quickly getting worse). I wasn't aware there was a treatment option that is only 3 days worth of radiation. What is the treatment called?

Welcome to the family Nichole, and so sorry to that your baby has a macro. The treatment is sterotactic radiation therapy. I hope that you are close to a vet. Medical teaching hospital like UC Davis . She did really good with the treatment

Give Ralphie some lovin from me and Butters, we totally understand what he is going through and big hugs to you for I know first hand what you are dealing with. Stay strong and we will all be here for you.

Dawn and Butters

Butter is off, not sure what's up, um left jowel is hanging lower then the right, and very thick drewal when she eats and drinks and now her lower lids are dropping again and her left eye rolls in a weird direction when she blinks. Taking her in first thing sat morning to get her ckd out , also time to reck for any signs of the UTI that she had. Otherwise she is still slowly improving, following me every where and will play a little wiggle worm with me before I go to work and then again when I get home. She is back on her pain meds twice a day to keep her comfortable.

Dawn and Butters

I wonder what is going on Dawn? Hoping it's not serious.

Dawn:
I am so sorry something is up with Butters, but as a such mom you definitely know when your baby is off. I hope this is nothing that cannot be corrected easily. Praying for you Both.
Patti

Gosh Dawn, I hate to scare you unnecessarily, but I wonder if Butters has had a little stroke or has some kind of blockage (clot) that is causing these issues on the left side of her face. Have you described what is happening to the neurology folks at Davis? I would call them first thing this morning and let them know. Even if you can't take her in to them before tomorrow, they may want to have her seen by your local vet today, or start some type of medication treatment, just in case.

Marianne

You know her best but I am worried too and think Marianne has a good idea. Maybe just a phone call or does she seem better now?
It is always hard for us to know when we are not there seeing the whole picture but you know we are a bunch fo worrry warts, sweetie.

I am thinking that either she has a tooth issue since she had smacked her face a couple of times when she miss judged the steps coming back into the house , which is when she stretched out her toe ligaments and or a mini stroke. The dropping lower lids are a signal that she does not feel well, that is something that I have learned during this journey, when her meds kick in the droopy lids go back to were they belong. She is still very lovie thank god.

Will be sending a message off to Davis, I did tell the vet that I think but am not sure if she had a mini stroke since she is still well balance, no limping or stumbling, hops up on couch just fine, doing her business on her wee pads and is alert. So I'm thinking it might be a gum or tooth thing. But I will find out tomorrow morning.
Dawn & Butters

The left side is the side that she had the problem with from the tumor correct? Her left eye. I would just tell Davis this is the fact, what do they want you to do and you have concerns of a stroke or something else.

Is she eating okay? Displaying any symptoms of pain like it would be a tooth?

It is good that she is still being her lovie dovie self. She is such a sweetheart.
You both are!!! :) :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Yes the left eye was the one effected, vision getting stronger tho.
Oh my goodness she's trying to be a lap dog right now, bless her heart.
Lower lids are almost normal rt side still lower then left, and left jowel is stll lower then the right side.

E-mails, since she is well balanced and not knuckling or falling over or leggs crossing over each other when walking and acting as she is alert and loving then she will be ok and have her vet ck her teeth and gums.

Dawn and one amazing Buttercup

Oh hey what's the best way to get her to pee in a cup, have to get some for the vet and want to do it in the morning at home where she is not stressed.?

Thanks

Well, I have yet to see a dog that will just pee in a cup. LOL I tend to just stick a plastic container under mine when she goes, but one of our members swears by a ladle. :) :) :)

Awwww, a lovey lapdog. LOL My golden always thought she was a lap dog too. Quite a lap full when they get big isn't it. :)

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

A ladle what a great idea, I will practice tonight doing that. Oh and yes a quite a lap full she is,LOL ALL 90 lbs of her:D


Dawn and butters

Dawn:
I am so sorry to hear Butters has not come back from what just happened. I she able to eat and drink ok with her jaw like that? There is so much that goes on with these dogs that it is hard to find out what the problem is sometimes. I am praying this gets turned around and Butters goes back to herself. You have had a lot of issues to deal with and have handled all this well. You have taken excellent care of her and I know you will continue. Blessings
Patti

YEAH.the ladle worked like a charm! She didn't even notice what I was doing.
She eats and drinks just fine, water intake is WAY down I would say back to normal amounts. We are finally getting some much needed rain here in the bay area so I will have daddy help load her into the back of the Edge, don't need her getting hurt trying to go up the ramp in this rain before our appointment this morning
When she's not sleeping she's wanting me to rub her and scratch her butt, poor thing the CC is hard as a rock on such a large portion of her. Right now she is cuddled up laying on my foot, she's got me pinned down, LOL.

Dawn and Butters

Ok everyone keep your finger crossed , just gave Butters her first 10mg dose of trilo.

Fingers crossed Dawn!

Bells palsy, really , please excuse me but WT€ , that is what is causing the drooling and weird eye roll, she is having a hard time closing her eye lid, when doing the menace test to her eyes the third lid will roll but the lid it self won't shut all the way, she is now sleeping next to me and I can see that the left eye is still open. This came on hard and fast, I'm pissed off as hell , she's been though sooooo much and I'm working as hard as I can to get her all the care she needs, and now this. Wishing I could punch some one right in the face and beat the hell out of them till I collapse to get all this anger and hatred out of me, I know a couple of folks that could use a good beating, but I know that going to jail would not help her. I'm filling up with rage and hatred toward mother nature , how could she have done this to my girl, god why why Butters, you keep throwing 1 thing after another and another at her and I, and never letting up, just when I get our head above water you push us back down and hold us there till I'm on the verge of dieing then you let off and before I know it your back with something else to torture us with. I pretty much hate everything right now except for my precious girl Buttercup, she's trusting me with her life and just when I think I've got a good grip and am working our way up the ladder something new rears its ugly head and takes a.hammer and starts bashing my hands till I can no longer hold on and I go cascaiding back down the and fall flat on my face. I would say more but the language would not be acceptable on this forum. This red head is fired up adrenaline on over drive , god have mercy on me and any one who is unfortunate enough to cross my path, my wrath will be unspeakable. Having said all that it would be best if I just stay behind closed doors for the next 2 days and hash this out.