My Pug Scoop (Precious Scoop has passed... )

Terry-Thanks. I'll check that out.

Addy-I only had enough of Scoop's old food to do a 50% new and 50% old mixture for 2 days. I know it should start with 75% old and 25% new for a few days and increase to 50%-50%, then 25%-75% over 7-10 days. I told the vet I didn't have much of his old food left. She didn't say anything so I just went ahead with what I had. Scoop never seemed to mind new foods before but I guess you never know. If it keeps up, I'll say something to the vet. I emailed her about other things and am waiting to hear from her. Maybe I should see if I can buy just a few cans of the old. I didn't want to buy a whole case of it to transition over. I'll see what she has to say. Thanks.

That is okay sweetie, just keep going then, he will probably adjust, may just take a bit of time.:):)

Hey Vicki and Scoop,

just going to drop in to say Hi, and hope that is all going okay today.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Thanks for checking on us. Things are about the same. Could be and sure wish they were better.
I get so darn frustrated. I emailed the vet a couple of times the last couple of days. She got back to me late this afternoon. I asked her about the Renal Essentials Tipper's mom said she has Tipper on. The vet didn't mention a word about it. I said to her about Scoop's blood pressure because I read that if BP is good that helps the kidneys. I don't think she ever took his BP. She said if the next two urinalysis have significant protein then she will start a workup that will include a BP check. That's like 3 weeks yet. Geez.

Vicki:
When Tipper was first diagnosed, I contacted every Vet I know for information. Each one that was educated, and treated Cushings told me blood pressure monitoring is vital. I take Tipper every Wednesday and have her pressure taken. I keep an on going chart of her blood pressure and weight, and all the tests she has had so I can see at a glance any increases that could be a problem. When Tipper had some issues a while back I was able to fax the Vet at Dechra the charts. He said it was an excellent idea and he could immediately go across the charts and see changes in values without paging thru many test results. I also keep a diary on Tipper daily. If she did anything strange I can go back and reference it and tell my Vet how often it occurred. I am just having a downer morning as Tipper was moving around in her sleep a lot last night trying to get comfortable. In the back of my mind I keep wondering how many more things she can overcome until we get to one that I cannot do anything about. It is scaring me, and is very depressing, but I must continue on for her sake. I know how you feel when you can't seem to get everything turned around and going the right way, it is frustrating. I have been noticing a difference in Tipper's eyes that I have referenced in my thread. It is worring me. My Vet said it is because she is getting older. I am wondering if I shoud take her to an eye specialist. After so much is said about Sards it scares me she could be starting into something. Any feed back on this woould be appreciated. How does Sards first present? Didn't mean to hijack your thread Vicki so enough said.

I don't have much time. Scoop's going for a weight check. I am so frustrated with the vet right now. I am kicking myself in the butt I didn't insist on a specialist right from the beginning. Scoop has too many problems. I wonder now if his kidney problem is from unregulated BG levels. You can hikack my thread anytime. I'm always interested in different things. I don't even know what sards is! Maybe I'll learn something new. Be back, hopefully tonight.

Vicki;
Good luck I hope everything goes ok. God Bless you and your furbaby.

Crossing fingers for you and Scoop today Vicki!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Scoop's weight this morning was 18.2lbs. Last time he was weighed he was 18lbs. Now the .2 could just be a matter of a poop. I'm glad he didn't go down at all. I get so scared he will lose weight again. Before this whole Cushings thing started in July he had been between 21-22lbs. since he was diagnosed with diabetes Oct. 2010. His lowest point was 16.2lbs a couple of months ago. So he has gained some back. Don't want to see him lose it again with the new food like he did when she put him on W/D. She started the W/D at 600 calories but when he lost weight she had him on about 800 calories. Now with the G/D food it's 600 calories so I'm worried about weight loss.

I picked up a copy of Scoop's urinalysis today. On there it says to do 3 of them in at least a 2 week period. To me that means you can do all three in 2 weeks. The vet is doing each test 2 weeks apart. Just seems like such a long time to wait. I emailed her again and asked if she thought it would be helpful to do a BP check before the work-up which wouldn't be for at least another 3 weeks. If Scoop does have kidney disease I don't know if 3 weeks makes a difference or not. Didn't hear back yet.

Vicki:
Have faith and keep praying. Tipper and I are praying for you and Scoop.

Thank you so much. I hold you and Tipper in my thoughts and prayers also. You are doing such a wonderful job with Tipper.
Big hugs.

A few weeks ago Scoop's vet asked me to measure his water for 3 days. It was between 10-16oz. I kept measuring. Then for a week or so it was between 18-27oz. I told the vet and she said as long as it isn't steadily 27oz and over, it's normal. Wed. he drank 24oz, Thurs. 15oz., Fri. 120z. It seems strange it increased for a while now it went back down. I take Scoop out to pee after he eats in the morning and when we come in he usually goes back into the kitchen to get another drink. Then he waits for me to put him on the recliner. This morning he didn't do that. He stayed on his bed. So I asked him if he wanted to go on the "big chair". He stood up and I picked him up like I always do. I wrap my arms around him and put my head to his and give him a kiss and tell him I love him so much. When I picked him up this morning he left out a yelp or cry or something. Just very briefly but he also turned his head and I could feel his mouth on my face. He did not bite. He never has. Something must have bothered him when I picked him up. Don't know what to make of it.

Hi there

I think that we drive ourselves a bit potty looking for every little sign in case we should be doing something.

Was the food different in the week Scoop drank more as different foods have different moisture contents

You could have just pinched his skin when you picked him up :)

For reading through your thread your vets seems as unhelpful as mine, if you think Scoop is off then keep going on till they listen. They are quite happy to take our money so they should have to work for it.

I did all the running for Tia as well and that's not right they should be educating themselves

Hope Scoop is snoring loudly in his recliner now

Mel and Tia x x

Thanks Mel. He did change foods recently. Not sure if it was same time or not, it's possible.

I keep thinking something hurt him inside when I picked him up. Never thought of the possiblilty of pinching him.

Like I said on your thread, I think the vet avoided me the other day. I was bending over to take Scoop's harness off for his weight check and when I stood up I saw her back as she was going through the door behind the reception desk. Unless she dropped something off up front and I missed it but it seemed so strange. There was a lady in the waiting room without her pet. When we got onto the car, I could see through the window. It looked like the vet sitting in the waiting room, turned sideways like she was talking to the lady that was sitting there. Maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression I got. I always feel rushed when she calls me. Sorry for rambling. I guess I'm so angry that my Scoop has so many problems. In the beginning I asked her if she wanted to refer us to a specialist. She said she would let me know if she couldn't handle it. She's always telling me now how busy she is and I don't doubt it. Just frustrating.

Scoop used to snore a lot before he got Cushing's but very seldom now. He doesn't bark much but if he does it is high pitched. That's something that has changed in him since the start of Cushing's. He is sleeping in the recliner. Raleigh is right there, too.

Big hugs.

I can relate. I am not a violent person but I could have swung for my vet a few times! I never switched because of circumstances something I will wonder on for a while. Waiting for them to call is just the worst feeling

If you think this vet is the best care for scoop stay but if you think you can get someone better than move. It's a tough enough disease to deal with and having a crappy vet just adds to the stress

Take care of yourself

Mel and Tia x x

Vicki:
You poor thing I am so sorry you are experiencing so many problems. Does Scoop have any issues with his rear legs? Maybe some arthritis and he was hurting when you picked him up?? There are just so many darn things that go wrong from this disease that it will be hard to pin point. I would try to lay him down and touch and move his legs etc. very gently, and see if you have a reaction. Does he have any back issues?? I think my Vet gets the award for the crappiest Vet. I do all the work and research and he does nothing except collect the money. I can never count on him for a straight answer. I always double check what he tells me. I kept telling him for 2 months now that Tipper's eyes look different to me, and is something wrong. His answer is old age. So before my dog goes blind or something I am taking her to Pittsburgh to the Opthamologist. I am not trying to spend money but this is on my mind, and I need a definite answer- not she's getting old. I go on March 1st. so this will either put my mind at rest, or uncover another problem. I am praying it is not the later of the two. I just feel not knowing, and having something starting that could potentially be corrected if you caught it early is the best method for me and Tipper. God Bless you and Scoop. I hope he starts to go uphill and feel better.

Hi Vicki,
One thing I will definitely say is that Scoop has so much going on that I would probably switch him to a specialist for his primary care. I just don't know how any general practice vet can stay on top of his situation.
I asked my vet about a specialist and that was a definite not going there response, or that she would consult the specialist. So, some consulting on the forum and back I went and said, I want a referral to a specialist for a consult. Not do you think, or can you call, etc, just I'll take her, you give me a referral. They charged me $75. for the referral and then of course seeing the specialist is a larger charge than a regular vet visit, however, in my mind, it was worth it, because then I could speak to them myself and have a conversation which was quite a bit different than the conversation that I had with the vet. It's just night and day in my mind.
So, that is some things to think of. You can check to see if Scoop is having any reaction if you gentle press on any areas of his body, otherwise, yes it could be a pinch, but with Scoop, geez, it's hard to tell. I'd do some running my hands over his body and sees if he shows any particular sensitivity to any area.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

I think you would feel better if you saw a specialist. hugs, Judi

I did not wait or ask for a referral with Zoe, I just called myself and told them I wanted an appointment and why and that I was not going through my vet. Our IMS charges no more for a recheck than our GP vet charges for an office visit, either does the opthalmologist. The initial consultations are more yes, but rechecks are not for us.

Some things an IMS may not be good at, mine tells me straight out she is not good about skin problems.

Vicki, it might be a really good idea to just check it out on your own, not through your vet and see what you may come up with for Scoop. I will admit, Zoe seldom sees her GP and I think that may bother him, we always go straight to the Specialist Clinic , they have every kind of doctor you would want and then her IMS is right there as well. The only vet they dont have is a derm vet, wish they would get one. But I do check in with the GP here and there and he gets copies of all the reports.

Thanks everyone. Hearing from you really helps. I am glad I am not the only one who gets frustrated with the vets. I thought maybe I am a bad person for feeling that way.

Mel-I don't know if another regular vet would be any better. I do think it is a lot for a regular vet to deal with. There might be some that would be better but how do you know which one it would be? It's frustrating.

Tipper's mom-Yes Scoop has issues with his back legs. He lost a lot of muscle back there when he first started with Cushing's. When he sits down he has a hard time. He plops down. He also has arthritis in his front legs. That bothers him at times. I'm glad to hear you're taking Tipper to an Opthamologist. Hope it turns out to be nothing but at least you will know then for sure.

My husband and I went out for lunch today. Our daughter was home with Scoop. When we got home she said he was having a problem. He's done this before. She took him out to pee and he went pee in a couple of spots. Then when they went in he peed several times on the rug and she put him in the kitchen and he did it in the kitchen too. She was really scared that he had just lost control of his functions. He stopped just before we came home. I took him out and he went pee again. He did that before he got sick so it isn't something new. It's not something he did often. Usually he would squat and pee many times and then he would finally poop and then he'd be OK. He didn't have to poop today so I don't know what that was all about. He was having trouble with his front leg. The one that bothers him the most. Maybe it was because he was standing on it for a long period of time. I told the vet about it when he did that a little while back. She said she'd check for infection and got a sample with a needle and ultra sound. It was a week or so after he did that. Then the sample had to sit for 72 hours. It was negative. He seems off more today than usual. Just doesn't seem right. The thing this morning with the yelp, then the pee thing and more out of it than usual. He only drank 11oz. of water today. That's low for him.

Sharlene-That's a good idea to lightly press around and see if anything bothers him. I can't believe they charged you $75 for a referal. WOW!

Addy-You're lucky to have a place that won't sock it to you.

Back in Nov when Scoop saw the neurologist he also saw an IMS on the same day. She agreed with everything the vet is doing. She said Scoop's vet was doing a good job. There are times the vet consults with her. This place is where Scoop had his ear surgery. It's a little over an hour from us. She charged $195 for the first visit. We have a place about 15 minutes from where we live that has some specialists. That's where Scoop saw the Opthamologist. They have 2 IMS there. A while back when I was frustrated with the vet I said something to my husband about going to see another vet. He doesn't see the point in doing that. I am the kind of person who's afraid to open her mouth so to not rock the boat but it is killing me. I want to go to the IMS but I can't get the nerve to say something to him. It is tearing me apart. I feel so horrible.

Vicki:
Just a suggestion if you are not going to leave your Vet. I can't leave mine as I am in the country and the other options are worse. I take a very agressive approach with the Vet I have, and sort of tell him what to do. I consult with the Vet at Dechra- I think you should call them, and start a file on Scoop. You may get some help that will put your mind at ease. They are good for helpful information, and helping you resolve issues. I consult with everyone on the forum, and tell my Vet what to do after consulting with everyone. He is by far no expert in Cushings. He couldn't hold a candle to the people on this forum!! I need him for emergencies, so I cannot just get rid of him, he is the closest Vet to me. I forgot to mention, at the onset of the Cushings I am the one who told my Vet Tipper had Cushings, and I got a consultation with Dr. Peterson who is an expert in this disease. He told my Vet what to do at that point. With these dogs you never know when you would have an emergency, so that is why I keep my Vet. I let the panel help me and then tell him what to do. I also let him know that I am consulting with the Dechra Vet, and ask him to do the same. He has consulted with the Dechra Vet many times now. They can help guide an otherwise useless Vet in the right direction. I just always double and triple check anything my Vet says. After all it is your precious babies life at stake. My dog is just another paycheck for my Vet and I know that. That is why I take the upper hand in anything concerning Tipper. I do believe in taking full control of my dogs care. I know you said it is hard for you to speak up, so I am praying you get the courage and take charge. No one will care about your baby like you do as they are just another patient to a Vet. Not trying to sound negative or cruel, just being realistic. With the help of Dechra and this forum I have guided my Vet every step of the way in Tipper's care. It has helped immensely so far, because if I would have listened to my Vet there would have been many errors made, that could have really hurt Tipper. This forum has educated you, and empowered you, so you can do it girl just trust yourself. It's a shame, but I learned many years ago, before this even happened to Tipper to not put your trust in any Vet. Check, check and triple check what they tell you. I am not saying there are not great Vets out there, but there are very few. I think from what you said, maybe Scoop yelped from the arthritis, and /or leg issues. I know when Tipper's back legs bother her, she gets kind of growley. I know for a fact this Vetoryl has changed her personality. One of the Vets even told me it would. She would never think of growling at me for touching her leg if it hurt prior to all this. Trust your instincts and you will be Scoops best ally. God Bless you and Scoop Tipper and I will pray for Scoop to get better.

Tipper's mom-Thanks for all your help and suggestions. You do such a fantastic job with Tipper. I sure wish I could be like you. My emotions are all over the place. I am having such a hard time. Scoop and I dropped off a urine sample #2 this morning at the vets. It's the check for protein in the urine. The vet came out and actually took a couple of minutes to talk to me, not that I got to ask much. She gave me some papers to read about Proteinuria. I'm just sooooo uptight and frustrated and upset and worried right now I can't think straight or know what to do.

What does everyone pay for an ACTH stim test? Last test I payed $147.73 for IDEXX ACTH Stimulation and $105.00 for cosyntropin 0.25mg/ml. Total $252.73 Is that a lot? Then if I would leave Scoop there they would charge for that too. Last ACTH I stayed with him so they didn't charge me for that. Thanks.

Vicki

I am so sorry you have so much on your plate.

I think when you feel crappy it is hard to see the way forward. Changing vets can be a pain and IMS is always more expensive and I know our little ones cost a lot already so you cannot feel horrible about that. You have done so much for Scoop already

I think you just have to ignore the current vets attitude you know your scoop better than anyone. Consulting with dechra too is a great thing, they don't talk to us in the uk ( I tried!)

I wish I could say more to make you feel better but know you are in my thoughts and I hope Scoop feels better soon

Mel and Tia x x

Mel-Thank you. It's so nice for you and others who are mending your own broken hearts to come here and help others like myself. It really means so much to me to hear from everyone on here. Hope your doing OK.

Scoop's pituitary tumor is always in the front of my mind but now this protein in the urine, probably kidney disease, is also driving me crazy. I took urine sampe #2 in today but now have to wait another 2 weeks to take in sample #3. Then there will be more testing. I don't understand why so much time has to pass before something will be done about it.

I was on Drs. Foster and Smith website. I started looking at some of the things that I get from the vet. One thing is Cosequin capsules. It looks like the exact same thing on the website for less than half the price the vet charges for the same amount of capsules. Unbelievable!

Hi Vicki,

Has your vet gotten back to you about checking Scoop's BP? Elevated blood pressure is hard on the kidneys so if this were me I would press the vet to have the BP checked.

The vet told me that after the 3rd urine sample shows the protein then a work-up will start and that will include a BP check. That's at least another 2 weeks away. Do you think 2 weeks could make a difference? If his BP is high what can be done, meds? Would they start something like that before they know what the protein is from? The vet will be calling tomorrow with the test reults.

A high percentage of dogs that have kidney issues also have high blood pressure. The drugs that are used in dogs with protein loss are also used for dogs with high blood pressure, which are ACE inhibitors such as Enalapril or Benazepril or a calcium channel blocker (Amlodipine).

If this were me, I would want to know now if my dog has high blood pressure.

Vicki:
I know how you feel about all these different issues going on with your baby. When Tipper first got this I was going crazy about all the things that seemed to be going wrong. Even though she is controlled with the cortisol now, I am still always on the edge being afraid something will happen to her that I cannot fix.This disease will devastate you if you let it. It is wonderful, yet horrible to love you dog as much or more than a human. It has great rewards, but also tough consequences. I am right here with you and say a prayer for your sweet baby every night. You are on the ball so Scoora could not have a better mommy than you. Your dedication to your baby will be rewarded. Wishing you and Scoora have a better day today. God Bless All of us on this forum, and all our babies.

Lori-Thanks. I'll see if I can press the issue with the vet. I don't know why it just can't be done now. It should have been done long before this. It can be very difficult to talk to her sometimes. She's always in a hurry. When I email her sometimes it's days before I hear back and then sometimes doesn't address everything I ask her about. I understand she's busy and has lots of other patients. I have a hard time being pushy. To me everything I want to talk to her about is important because it's my baby I'm so concerned about. It tears me apart.

Tipper's Mom-I appreciate all your prayers for my Scoop. You are so right about the love we feel for them. It is wonderful but can be so hard. Hope you and Tipper have a good day. Love and big hugs to you and Tipper.

Scoop had his last ACTH done a month ago. His pre was 2.0 and his post was 5.2
Do you think it is time for another ACTH? If not, when do you think?

Can anyone give me a idea what they pay for ACTH tests?

I think you have to go by how Scoop is, we only once waited the recommended 3 mths when they are stable, Tia got tested usually around 8 weeks. I do wonder whether we tested her too much and if I should have gone the 3 months but she got low once with no symptoms and that always made me err on the side of caution.

I think we paid around £115 for the stim test and then another £50 for chem and they also did a vetoryl profile which is the electrolytes etc which was also around £50

Coverted to dollars that's around $174 for stim and $76 for the others. I also used to pay £47 for 30mg Vetoryl which she was on morning and night

Hope that helps and that Scoop and you are having a good day.

I am taking it hour by hour talking about her quirky bits to everyone until I sense they heard enough! Probably been classed as crazy dog lady but I don't care :)

Mel and Tia xxx

Mel-You are not crazy dog lady. Just keep on talking. I love hearing from you and I am sure we will never get tired of hearing about your beautiful Tia.

I wondered about testing Scoop because his Dec. ACTH was post 10.something(I can't seem to find the paper) and his Jan. dropped to half that without increasing his dose. At the time of the Dec test Scoop only had his corneal ulcer about 2-2 1/2 weeks and might have been the reason for the drop as his ulcer got better. Anybody have any thoughts on that? The vet hasn't said anything to me about testing his cortisol or his BG's.

Is the result on this thread?

Dechra's dosing protocol states that after starting Vetoryl/Trilostane an ACTH stim test should be conducted within 10-14 days and also after any dose adjustment. Once a dog has become stablized on a current dose an ACTH stim test should be performed at the 30 day mark, 90 day mark and every 3 months thereafter, electrolytes should be checked too. This information can be found here: http://www.dechra-us.com/files/dechr...ts/Vetoryl.pdf

On the forum we do have a Thread with polls, here is a link to a poll asking about the cost of ACTH tests from members ( U.S. Dollars): http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1148

Australian Dollars (AUD) http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1151

If Scoop's symptoms have improved and he acting and feeling fine then, IMHO, I would wait another 90 days to have another ACTH test done BUT if Scoop would start showing any ill effects an ACTH stim test needs to be done ASAP.

Mel-Yes the result is on here somewhere. I just didn't take time to look it up.

Lori-Thanks
The vet called this afternoon with the results from Scoop's 2nd test for protein in the urine. The first test result was 2.9 The result from yesterday's test was 4.7, not good. The vet said we will not wait and do a 3rd test. As soon as they get new culture plates in she will do a urine culture and blood pressure check. She said she will probably start Scoop on meds. She mentioned Benazepril and she said maybe low dose aspirin. She said she has to check into it to make sure the meds will be OK with everything else he is on.

Oh Vicki, I'm sorry that yet another complication for Scoop has shown up.
Jasper just went on meds for protein in the urine and kidney disease, so maybe check out the thread I linked to earlier. Tina has been trying to stay on top of all thinks kidney and cushings with Jasper, so maybe it will give you some ideas too.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Thanks Sharlene.
That's my Scoop. King of complications. I just can't believe it's one thing after another for my "baby doll".

From one crazy dog lady to another :D:D I think we could fill a bus quite easily :D:D So sorry to hear the results are going the wrong way, Flynn has started meds two days ago too. Amlodipine for him, in an effort to gain better BP control. Will be keeping an eye on Scoop's thread to see how he is going. Be gone nasty protein!! There that should do it, if only it was that easy eh!

Paw's up Scoop!!!

Trish xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx