Jasper (12 yr old Mini Schnauzer) is now at peace

Morning Tina,

I will be thinking nothing but good thoughts today for Jasper's liver & kidneys. I know that is a scary thing.

I am not sure about the liver continuing to enlarge. I am sure someone with experience will come by with answers for that. I worry about Boriss & his liver too. Sometimes his feels large to me. I will probably have all the levels tested next month.

I am glad his nose is going to be okay. I had a bulldog in the past who always had a dry crusty nose. We just used the vitamin e oil to help the crusty stuff to go away. It didn't seem to bother him.

Yay on things in general being good and hopefully that no protein increase in the urine.
I did read that their can be a relation between the Percorten and urine/water consumption. So that is a possibility, and if that is, then maybe Dex too. So, don't panic yet on the kidneys.

Crossing fingers for todays results!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Hi Everyone, thanks for all the good thoughts sent Jasper's way. I anxiously waited all day for my vet to call, but didn't hear from her. She usually calls me at work but sometimes will call after I am home right before the clinic closes. When I got home I saw there was a vm message from her and I was so relieved, I thought "the results must be good news, or she would have called me at work".

Well, unfortunately the news is not good. His protein:creatinine ratio has more than doubled from 3 months ago. Then it was 1.27, on 1/14 it was 3.57. She said this is a significant elevation and indicates that he is losing a lot more protein from his kidneys. She did not mention a reference range, so I called and had a tech check the report. She said it didn't list the reference range so will need to have my vet call to clarify that. I checked on line and it shows a couple of different reference values, depending on if the BUN is within normal limits. But values above 2.0 indicates there is medically significant protein loss through the kidneys even if the BUN is within normal limits. His BUN was not checked this time but it has always been normal.

She said she doesn't know if it is a primary kidney issue, associated with his medication, or a function of the Cushings or Addison's, but that we need to look into it. She didn't feel he needed his BP checked the other night, but now feels like it needs to be checked to make sure that hypertension isn't contributing to the value going up. I will take him in tomorrow after work to have a tech check it. I am worried about it being inaccurately high due to the stress of being at the vet. On Monday it was very busy and chaotic there, and he was very anxious.

She said she will be getting another consult with the one and only IMS we have in the state, fortunately he is in town. She has already consulted with him about Jasper once, and he was very helpful. She said she wants to talk to him to help determine the next step. She said she would be calling in a few days as soon as she gets the consult.

So we will get his BP checked tomorrow and then wait. I will need to wait till then to ask all my questions about his enlarged liver. I am trying really hard to not panic over this, but I am pretty upset. I turned the radio up loud, went into the bathroom, and had a 20 minute crying jag. I didn't want Jasper to see or hear me. Well, he was laying outside the closed door when I came out of course, and just looked up at me with the most innocent and wise look on his face, as if to say "I know Mama, I know". I had to fight so hard to not start bawling again, and just picked him up and held him tight.

You guys, I am trying with all my might to stay positive and not get discouraged, but I can't help but feel that he just can't get a break. I feel so weary and I am absolutely terrified of what all this liver and kidney stuff will mean for him.

My mind wanders back to when all of this first started. He was drinking and peeing alot, had an accident in the house, and all the testing started. He has been through the wringer with all the tests that arrived at the Cushings diagnosis, getting toxic on the Lysodren twice, the Addison's crisis, two hospitalizations, hemorrhagic gastroenteritis from all the stress, now the Addisons diagnosis, all of the ups and downs with trying to stabilize him on the steroids. Through all of this he is still drinking and peeing too much, except now his adrenals are fried from the Lysodren, he has to take steroids that are causing his liver to enlarge, and now the kidney stuff. I feel like I have done all of this to him, and if we would have just left everything alone, he would be better off. After all, I am adjusting to all the drinking and peeing. I am so upset I don't know what to feel. I know I have been doing what I thought was best for him at the time, but that is not helping me feel any better. I am sick with worry for him. He just innocently trusts, and doesn't deserve any of this.

Thanks for listening, and sorry if this seems like whining, I don't mean to. I am just feeling so down right now.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

Ah Tina, I'm reaching out with a huge hug for you both. I don't know what to say because I don't have any advice. I know your vet is on top of things and smart enough to seek help when it's needed so I'll pray that they come up with something to give you both relief.

Everything you have done for your baby has been out of love. Do not question yourself or your actions one little bit. I've been here 8 yrs and I have read your thread multiple times and I simply cannot explain what happened with Jasper while on the lysodren. I understand hindsight and all but just remember what you did was the right thing at the time and you have done nothing wrong whatsoever.

I wish I could wave a magic wand! Instead I send love and prayers. Kim

Oh sweetie of course you are. This is a perfectly normal reaction to constant worry and the up and downs that you have been through. You and Jasper have certainly been through more than most have.

However, you did do everything that you are suppose to do in these cases. You had symptoms, you tried to find out what was wrong. You did and then you followed a prescribed treatment plan. The same one that is recommended for all dogs, either lysodren or trilostane. Jasper just had a very instant sensitivity to the treatment. You couldn't know that.

It's great that your vet is consulting with the specialist and I certainly hope that there will be a path forward that won't be overly strenuous for Jasper.

We aim for stabilization and a good quality of life. Jasper has that and he can go on having that.

You are of course worried and I hope that some of the others who Way more knowledge about the urine protein issue will be by to give their opinion.

I though will give you a big hug and lend you a shoulder to cry on any time you want it.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

Tina and Jasper.......the not knowing.....ugh...it is horrible. You know when those times happen....where you just break...it is because of immense love....if your baby is near and you hold him tight think those words over and over and he will feel that through you and know where this emotion is coming from. And you focusing on those words will keep you focused as well. Dont stop saying them...not even for a second. over and over and over, otherwise the doubt (which is NOT our friend) creeps in and weakens your amazing strength. I know you love your baby so so so much. My heart hurts for you, what your experiencing right now wish i was actually there to just hold you!!!! And you got to let all that out.....its just not healthy to hold it in. Sending you love and hugs sweetheart. The answer will come and action plan will come into place. kiss on snout to jasper.

Hi Tina

We all know this stage is the worse, you find out something is wrong then and feel so awful but once you get to talk to the specialist and get a plan in place you know where you are working towards. So you are allowed a bit to feel upset right now, but back on the horse you go Tina!!

Flynn has an enlarged liver too, they see it on ultrasound and also during surgery. He also has protein in his urine. Both things I am going to followup up once he is recovered more, so they are kinda parked at the moment until he gets more strength back.

Take heart from the normal BUN and hopefully that is still where it is that. One day at a time, you have had good news this week too, so lets hold onto that until you can speak to specialist.

Still, we all know totally how you are feeling, it is so stink when you want everything to go good but we are here to help you through it!

Paw's up Tina and Jasper!!!!

Trish and Flynn xx

Well, everyone else has said everything I want to say to you.:(:(

I know this is hard and you want to hide in the closet or under the covers and boy you and Jasper sure deserve a break. So I am here to tell you, go ahead and cry and scream and just release it all, have a total meltdown. Sometimes it is the best thing to do and then we start again.

I cant offer you medical advice only emotional support Tina but one thing I do know is you did nothing to Jasper. You are not responsible. Something was wrong and you tried to help him out of love and caring and things turned out differently but it is not your fault. Honey, sometimes life just is not fair and good people and good dogs get hurt and suffer.

Somehow, I am determined to drill into your head you have done nothing wrong so just watch out because I just might show up everyday to remind you of that;)

Now, go find a drawer and promise me you are going to scream all that guilt into the dang drawer, slam it shut and keep it shut for awhile.

We are always here for you and I totally know how scared you were waiting for that call. Yesterday by 2pm I felt like an overwound grandfather clock about to burst its springs.:eek::eek::eek:

Man, it was hard to pull it together when I finally got home but I did and you will to because Jasper is looking at your beautiful face and he is worried because mom is scared.


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Oh no Tina.. I am so upset for you & Jasper. I totally understand It is so hard to stay positive. You have been on a roller coaster of emotions.

You are doing everything in your power to make things good for Jasper. You are the best mom he could ever have.

I will be saving a prayer for you & Jasper. I know the waiting part is going to be hard.

big hugs..

Kim, Sharlene, Trish, Skye, Addy, Amy, thank you all for the support, hugs and pep talks. Huge hugs to you all. I have spent the last day or so pulling myself up by the bootstraps. It has not been an easy task.

Jasper had his BP check on 1/16 pm. I decided to take him about 20 min early or so, so we could just quietly sit in an exam room for a while so he could be more relaxed when it was checked. The tech did 3 readings and said it was 150, which is the same as it was a few months ago. She said this is at the higher end of normal, they like it to be under 160. He seemed pretty calm so I feel this is accurate. His heart rate was 80, which she said was good also. So, it doesn't look like his BP is the cause for the increased protein in his urine. The tech spent quite a bit of time with us, she was as reassuring as she could be. She was very validating with all my concerns, nice to know I haven't been over reacting I guess. She said she knows it is hard, she was very knowledgeable with all the details of Jaspers case. I was kind of surprised because there a lot of techs at the office, and Jasper has seen many of them at different times since all of this started. Then she said Jasper is one of her favorites. That explains that. ;) She is one of my favorites also, very smart, calm and patient.

So my plan was to just wait until my vet contacted me with what she learned from the IMS consult. Yesterday at work, I started feeling kind of panicky about things, started worrying that we should have checked the urine sooner before the level got this high because if treatment is needed we could have started that sooner; worried that a urine culture wasn't done before the test, as I read that if an infection is present it can cause a falsely high reading in the protein:creatine ratio; and also worried that it had been a while since he had bloodwork done to check the kidney values, and maybe his BUN and creatine weren't normal anymore as they had been. ( Addy and Leslie, I am giving you a run for your money as the forum's worst worrier :p ).

So I left a message at the office for my vet, just wanted to run my questions by her so I didn't dwell on them all weekend. She called as I was leaving work, and answered/reassured me on all my concerns. She said it is a good thing that his BP was ok so we know it is not contributing to the problem, so we don't have to worry about treating that. She sent the consult off to the IMS, so thinks we might hear back as early as Monday. She also answered my questions about the enlarged liver, the main one being if it is being damaged due to the enlargement. She said no, that the function is not affected, however the ALP could continue to increase due to the steroids. I asked her about Denamarin, she said she thought that might be a good idea, so we are going to talk about that also after we get the kidney stuff figured out.

We discussed quite a bit, she was very supportive on all fronts, said she totally understood how frustrating this has all been, and said that she feels frustrated too. I told her I am more scared than frustrated. She said Jasper's "multi-dimensional presentation and issues" has been one of her biggest challenges since she started practicing. I thought "well, that's my Boy". :rolleyes:

Trish, thanks for mentioning that Flynn has an enlarged liver and protein in his urine. It is reassuring to see how well he is doing even though he has those issue also. I had been telling Jasper all about his surgery and all that he went through day by day so Jasper could help keep Flynn in our prayers. He is Jasper's role model. And I totally admire how positive you have been throughout, I am going to try to make you my role model! :D

So that is where we are at. I am still pretty scared, but don't feel that panic in my gut right now. I'll take that. Thanks again for all the kind words.

Love and hugs,

Tina and "multi-dimensional" Jasper :)

Hi Tina,

Quote:

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( Addy and Leslie, I am giving you a run for your money as the forum's worst worrier :p).

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Don't know about Addy, but I guard my throne as the Queen of Worry most jealously! :p:D Beside, you have a loooong way to go before you are in the running with this batty old broad! ;):p You do remember the boob story? ;)

You are doing a great job, Mom. I know it's hard to keep a level head (HA! look who's talking!) but you seem to be on top of things like a pro. It sounds like you have a great vet as well and that has to help you feel better. Let us know what the IMS has to say when you learn, and know you and Jasper have a whole host of folk behind you pulling those bootstraps with you.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Thanks Leslie! It is so hard to keep a level head, I was glad to hear the tech didn't think I was over reacting at all. And please, no worries about your throne, I have no intent of taking it over!! I just hope I don't legitimately earn it one day!! :eek:

You know, I am not sure I know about the boob story, is it in Squirt's thread? Let me know and I will go read it. And by the way, I love your latest avatar pic, so cute. :)

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

To save you a read through the morass :D, here is a link -

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/show...bies#post55225

Oh Leslie, LMAO! I am literally laughing out loud and both dogs are on alert looking at me like I am crazy. That is so funny, so glad Squirt was ok. That occurred before I joined the forum, so that explains why I didn't know about it. Thanks, I needed a laugh like that. :D :D :D

OMG Leslie, I didn't know that story either!! I'm with Tina now just cracking up laughing out loud!!

Tina, You are doing so good! We all Try to stay on top of things and cover all our basis, but "multi-dimensional" Jasper has really taught you well. I think it's awesome that you have such a good vet that will work with you no matter where the road leads.!!

Boots are looking Just fine!

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Well, so far I cant top the boob story so Leslie still has her throne:D:D:D

Tina, we love you and Jasper dearly and we are here for you in good times and bad. We are here to support you and Jasper anyway we can.
Gosh, how many times have I logged on crying because I was having a total meltdown thinking I was responsible for Zoe having Cushings?:o

When you are a caregiver to someone you love dearly and who is ill, dang it is really easy to get overwhelmed and down. Which is why God gave us Chocovino, bubble baths and ITunes:D:D:D:D:D And this forum, except that was given to us by some pretty amazing people, not really God:D:D:D:D:D

It sounds like you are in good hands and your vet and staff are on top of things and even better sympathetic and kind. That is a hard to beat combo;)


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Big ((((((HUGS)))))) Addy, Sharlene and Leslie. Yes, I am so fortunate to have such a wonderful vet. We are truly blessed.

On Friday evening when we were talking over all that is going on with Jasper, and the reasons she is consulting again with the IMS, she mentioned that a couple of times she has thought to just refer me and Jasper there. She said he is a very good Dr, but she has found that sometimes he isn't always great with follow up. She said "and I know you need that".

She went on to say that she knows I need detailed explanations and to be involved at all levels, and said she was concerned about a potential lack of that with the IMS. She also mentioned the expense, which I appreciated. However, I made sure that if she felt that was what Jasper truly needed that she would send us there. She said yes, of course, and she did mention that there are some tests that they can do there that can't be done at her office. I just wanted to make sure that she knew that what is most important to me is that we do what is the absolute best for Jasper, and that I would figure out the money somehow.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

just popping in tina to let you know that i am keeping an eye on your updates.sending love,light,peace and xoxox patty(milo)meka

Quote:

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Originally Posted by labblab

Also, I have been very touched reading about your sweet Dakota, and if you should ever wish to do so, please know that we would welcome a thread of her very own on our "In Loving Memory" forum. Our family embraces many beloved "honorary" Cushpups, and Dakota surely falls within that category! I know you are coming up on the anniversary of her passing, and it would be our privilege to read anything that you might care to write in these coming days.

Sending many hugs,
Marianne

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Marianne, I have been a bit involved with Jasper's ongoing issues, but I keep meaning to thank you so much for your post about my precious Angel Baby Dakota. I will certainly think about starting a thread for her as you mentioned. The upcoming anniversary is so difficult every year, maybe that would be just the thing to help me deal with it better, and more importantly to honor her and her memory. I am teary just thinking about it. I miss her so. She always hated being left home alone, and I think she would be overjoyed to be included in this wonderful family as an "honorary" member. Thank you for your kindness Marianne.

Love and hugs,
Tina

Ok, today is a week since the vet said to give Dex 1/4 tab daily for a week and then try to decrease to every other day if he was doing ok on all fronts. I skipped his dose this morning, so today is the first day of the every other day dosing. This is the first time we have been able to try every other day at the lower 1/4 tab dose. (Yay!)

He ate his dinner ok. He has seemed pretty subdued and not too peppy all evening. Not much spring in his step. He seems like maybe he doesn't feel the best, and of course I wonder if that is due to no Dex today. But no severe signs. I am hoping that maybe it will just take a period of time for his body to adjust to the lower dose. I just let him out and we are off to bed. (Had a little snooze on the couch, that's why it's so late :rolleyes: ). I wanted to wait all evening to see how he did before I posted. So we will see how his eating is for breakfast in the morning, usually decreased appetite or trying to not eat is the first sign of trouble. He will get his Dex after breakfast. No word from my vet regarding the IMS consult yet, but i wasn't really expecting to hear today. Nite. :)

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

Ohhh good luck Jasper!! Hope all goes well tomorrow, I guess it will take a little while for him to get used to lower dose. Hope he perks up again tomorrow Tina. I know you have your eagle Mummy eye on him :D:D Now you behave yourself Jasper and eat all your brekky in the morning!

Trish and Flynn xx

Hi Tina,

How is Jasper this morning? I hope the decrease works just fine for him this time. Let us hear from you when you can.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Hoping Jasper perked up a bit

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Hey Tina :) How did Jasper do with the every other day dosage?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Can't wait to hear how Jasper is doing. HOpe today is a good day!

Hi Everyone, thanks so much for all the good wishes!

Jasper has continue to eat fine so far. He got his Dex yesterday morning. He has perked up some, but still seems a bit subdued to me. Last night he rough housed with Shelby for a while, but then for the rest of the evening, seemed pretty tuckered out. Hard to tell if it is decreased energy overall, or if he was just tired for some reason. Seems kind of tired this morning also. So today is a skip day, no Dex. Will see how he does.

I was home Monday to monitor him on the first skip day, but I have to work today. Hopefully it will all be ok. I am just a little nervous because this is the first time we have tried the every other day thing with the lower Dex dose, and I do worry about the off days. Also hoping to maybe hear from my vet today regarding the IMS consult.

Gotta head to work, have a good day all!

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper :)

Hope everything goes good with his off day today.
Any word on the consult today?

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

My vet talked to the IMS, she called this evening to discuss his comments and recommendations. The news is not wonderful. After reviewing all the latest information on Jasper, he feels the next step is to check his renal function as he thinks it is a primary kidney issue due to the protein loss. I don't want to forget to mention that my vet asked him about Diabetes Insipidus, and he said he didn't think it was likely because there is not usually protein loss with DI. She asked about a trial of the Desmopressin drops to be sure, and he said that it could actually make things worse if the kidneys aren't happy. So I guess I am glad we didn't try that a while back.

The immediate plan is to recheck his kidney values and blood protein level with a chem panel, and to get a sterile urine specimen for culture to make sure there isn't a UTI going on. I will take him in after work tomorrow to get that done. The blood results should be back Friday, and urine culture back Saturday.

If the kidney values are still normal (BUN and creatinine have been normal on previous checks, last one in October), then there is another blood test specific to kidney function that the IMS is recommending, it is called an iohexol clearance test. It can apparently check for early kidney disease before the usual abnormalities show up in the blood.

I will post more tomorrow about all that she said, I am pretty wiped out right now from researching stuff on line and worrying. Again, I am trying to not panic, but I am very scared and can't seem to stop crying. I am just praying that the disease is in a very early stage so that we have a good chance that the progression can be stopped with treatment. I am not sure what else to think right now, just scared to death for my baby. :( Please keep him in your prayers.

If anyone here knows anything about this test, or kidney disease, I would welcome the information. Thanks.

Tina and Jasper

Hi Tina

Well I am glad your IMS rung back to get this process underway! Jasper is such a trooper with all these tests, just like Flynny... they keep on going and we keep on worrying, thank goodness they don't know about all the stress their problems cause us. It is so not fair, but I am still very hopeful this is early stages and we all know they can do such wonderful things for our furry friends :) Sitting here with you in support tonight Tina, so if you have to get up to let Jasper out and want to vent come find me. I am sitting up watching the Aussie Open tennis and one of my favourite players is coming up soon! In between that, I am writing my letter to the IMS about Flynn :rolleyes:
Trish xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks so much for your post Trish. I have been up for a bit to let Jasper out and also to do a little research on kidney diets. I took him in for his chem panel, and the sterile urine for culture, and my vet had a couple of sample bags of prescription kidney diets to send home with us. One is Hills k/d, the other is labeled CNM K-9 NF, which I think is a Purina product, not sure. She said to do some trials to see if he likes one more than the other, and the plan is to switch him over to a prescription kidney diet, which I guess makes sense. He has been doing so well on the Hills low fat i/d diet, I hate to mess with that, but I guess we must. :rolleyes:

We should have the chem panel results back sometime today. Like you said, I am hopeful that it is early stages so we will have good treatment options. But I am still quite scared. Well, back to bed we go, not that I am getting much sleep. I am exhausted, but my mind won't let me rest. I will post the lab results when we get them.

Again, if anyone has any input, I would appreciate it.

Tina and Jasper

Hi Tina
We are googling the same thing at the same time! Flynn still has proteinuria 3+ on dipstick, so I have to take in another sample to check the protein:creatinine ratio. His has been high for a year, but normal blood creatinine and BUN and that was done a month back. So we will be waiting for that urine result next week. Get some sleep Tina, I have been reading up on kidney stuff after reading about Jasper, time to take it a bit more seriously I think!
Trish xxxxx

Hi Trish, just posted on Flynn's thread. Yes, it looks like we were googling things at the same time. ;) I have done quite a bit of internet research in the past couple of days about kidney disease, it is quite overwhelming.

Ok everyone, I got the results of Jasper's chem panel, and the BUN and creatinine were in the normal range, which is great news! This is so scary to me, but my vet told me that the kidney has to have lost 2/3 of it's function before those values will show abnormalities. 2/3??!! Has anyone else ever heard that? I guess I don't understand why there aren't tests that would detect problems sooner. I need to add that to my list of questions for her on our next call.

Here are the chem panel results, drawn on 1/24/13:

Glucose 90 (70-12) mg/dL
Urea Nitrogen Serum 12 (10-28) mg/dL
Creatinine Serum 0.69 (0.50-1.50) mg/dL
BUN/Creat Ratio 17 (no reference range given)
Bilirubin Total 0.1 (<0.6) mg/dL
Bilirubin Direct 0.0 (<0.3) mg/dL
Bilirubin Indirect 0.1 (no reference range given) mg/dL
ALT 133 *H (<100) IU/L
Alk Phos 2782 *H (<95) IU/L
AST 17 (<65) IU/L
Cholesterol 283 *H (125-260) mg/dL
Triglycerides 154 *H (41-115) mg/dL
Calcium 10.9 (8.3-12.0) mg/dL
Phosphorus 4.5 (2.8-5.7) mg/dL
Sodium 149 (138-154) nmol/L
Potassium 4.8 (3.7-5.8) nmol/L
Chloride 106 (104-118) nmol/L
Protein Serum 6.8 (5.4-7.5) g/dL
Albumin 3.4 (2.5-3.9) g/dL
Globulin 3.4 (no reference range given) g/dL
Osmolality Calculated 295 (280-310) mOsm/Kg


I was happy to see that the electrolytes were all in the normal range from the cushings/addison's perspective! The Alk Phos has increased significantly since the last time I could find a result, it was 1869 on 10/22/12. The ALT is now elevated and it has always been in the normal range before. When my vet phoned the results, she mentioned that the liver enzymes were up due to the steroids. I will ask further about it now that I have the specific results. His triglycerides have been elevated in the past, it is a bit lower than the last time, maybe due to the low fat i/d diet, however the cholesterol is now elevated. Overall, I think these are good results considering everything. Any feedback on the lab results would be appreciated!

My vet was pleased that the BUN and creatinine were within the normal range, but said that he has protein losing kidney disease. I think she called it Protein Losing Nephropathy. I need to clarify that this is the diagnosis for sure. I was on information overload so forgot to ask a few things. She said it was caused from the Cushings.

The plan for treatment is to change him over to a kidney diet, Hills prescription k/d, I started the slow transition last evening. In a few days after we see that he is tolerating the food, she will start him on either enapranil or benzapril. These are both cardiac/BP meds but are used for kidney disease also. I did some reading, but need to research further. My vet said his kidney values have to be rechecked 5-7 days after starting the med because sometimes the med itself can cause the kidneys to be unhappy. But she said it is necessary to slow the progression of the disease in the long run. So I am a bit worried about that, as I did read that the meds can cause kidney problems/damage themselves. Yikes! :eek:

I am guessing from the lack of previous responses from the wonderful experts around here, that nobody has much experience with any kidney issues. PLEASE HELP if you do!!!

I searched for a Kidney Disease forum like this one, all I found was a yahoo group called K9Kidneys. I did register for it, but within minutes I had about 20 automated emails with instructions etc. I checked it out a little but it is not set up like this forum. I have not posted anything there yet, I am not real sure how to do it. It seems a bit confusing how it is set up. Has anyone here ever belonged to a yahoo group? How do you enter posts, is it by emailing?? Well, that might have to wait, I am feeling quite overwhelmed and not sure I have the energy to tackle figuring that out at the moment. And I am scared. Of course some of the things I read on the internet paint a pretty dismal picture, but I am trying to not think about that right now.

Thanks for reading all of this and for any help/advice anyone can provide.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

Hi Tina,

My boy, Harley, had kidney disease. It is true that it is not noticeable on the blood panel until at least 50%-75% of kidney function has been lost.

Has Jasper had an UPC done?

The Yahoo K9kidney forum is a great site, which I did belong to, the members there have a wealth of knowledge about canine kidney disease so I do urge you to join there. You do post to that site through your own e-mail account.

Two of the supplements that I gave to Harley for his kidney issue were CoQ10 and wild salmon oil. Harley was on enalapril and benazepril and these may elevate the creatinine and BUN but these values should level out.

It is also a good idea to give something to help coat the stomach lining such as Pepcid AC or slippery elm bark. Both of these aid to eliminate ulcers which are prone in dogs with kidney disease. These products can make the absorption of some meds/vits/supplements more difficult which is why it is recommended not giving any of these for at least 1 hour before or 2 hours after giving the Pepcid AC or SEB.

Along with the creatinine and BUN, the phosphorus and potassium levels need to be watched for elevations. If phosphorus levels begin to climb then a binder is needed.

Feeding a moderate-protein diet is now what is recommended, here is a site with info about diet: http://dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html

If I can be of help in any way, please do let me know.

Love and hugs,
Lori

Hi Tina,

I am sure someone will be along to read through your labs:D;)

I know Lori will be more than happy to answer any of your questions, as she offered, so take her up on it, okay?

I belong to a Yahoo group for Zoe's IBD. I am not on it much anymore, no time, but if I remember right you have the choice of getting posts from your group (updates) via email or just logging in to the group so I could ask a question either just being logged in to the group via email or via from the updates I received via my email. It depends on how much you want to read via emails. I eventually changed my setting to not getting updates via email, I could not keep up.

We adjust and learn with each new challenge we face. I know you are on info overload so I'm sending you a ((((((((((((((((hug))))))))))). Sorry I cant be of more help today, have had a horrible headache since last night.:( I have not yet heard of Protein Losing Nephropathy so I'll learn about it with you:)

Hi Tina,

Yahoo! groups are a bit of a hassle in my book. ;) You can, like Addy said, reply either from the digest in your email or by signing into the group. If you are signed in and reading a post, you will see a blue "reply" button in the upper RH corner of the text box. From there it's much like any other forum to send/submit. Your post may be immediately visible or it may take a bit to hit the board, it depends on how the group is set up.

The thing I really, really dislike about Yahoo! groups is that you can't keep info in one place like the threads in this type format. Each post on Yahoo! just sorta hangs there and to read the "conversation" you have to click each reply that is under the original post. I get lost as to which ones I've read and haven't! :D The email digests come across looking more like this format but the board is not at all.

There are some good groups on Yahoo!, tho, so don't give up. The kidney group is supposed to be a great one. ;)
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

PS. Wish I could help with the labs but alas, no....

Tina! Hugs.

I know this is extra scary on top of everything else that you have gone through with Jasper and continue to deal with. I do think you have a good vet who is very caring and patient. It's great to have a vet that will work with you.

I wish I could tell you all about Kidney Disease and alleviate your worries. Alas I don't know and have no experience with anything other than crystals.

I will google for you though till the cows come home as they say. :)

This is one paper I found on Protein Losing Nephropathy.
http://www.vimpva.com/articles/Prote...0in%20Dogs.pdf

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Thanks so much for the replies everyone.

Lori - thank you for all of your information, and the offer to help. I can't tell you how appreciative I am. I'm sure I will have some questions, I just can't get it together right now. My head is spinning with all the reading I have done today, and I can't seem to really focus very well. But I wanted to answer your question about whether Jasper had a UPC done. Is this a urine protein:creatinine ratio? If so, yes, he has had this test done twice. I had posted them a while back. The results are as follows:

10/22/12:

Protein, Random Urine 138.9 mg/dL (no reference range given)
Creatinine, Random Urine 110 mg/dL (no reference range given)
Protein/Creat Ratio 1.27 (no reference range given)

1/14/13:

Protein, Random Urine 73.3 mg/dL (no reference range given)
Creatinine, Random Urine 21 mg/dL (no reference range given)
Protein/Creat Ratio 3.57 (no reference range given)

The increase in the ratio from 1/14 is what made my vet say that we needed to start treatment now, she said it was a pretty significant elevation in that value and indicated that he is losing a lot more protein from his kidneys.

I went to the site you gave and read all the diet information. I am a bit anxious about that now, because the Hills k/d is the food my vet has me switching Jasper over to. She also mentioned Purina and Royal Canin kidney diets as possibilities also. She said she didn't have a preference. I brought a sample of the k/d home to see if he liked it. It seemed ok so figured we would go with that. Should I ask my vet about it? I don't know what else she would prescribe. The k/d does have a bit higher protein content than the Purina. I couldn't access the nutritional info on the Royal Canin website.

As far as the yahoo group, I did join and complete my registration. I am going to need to tackle that another time, they have a lot of questions and lab results that they request for the first post. And I need to figure out how their site works when I am not so over loaded. I am glad to know it is a good site to join.

Thank you again for the help.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

You guys, thanks for the hugs. I sure need them. Sharlene, I am so scared I can't think straight. I calm down for a while and for a short time feel that it will be alright, but then the fear creeps back in. I haven't gotten anything done the whole weekend except research all of this stuff. I can't stop, I just feel so anxious.

Now it is almost time to face another work week and I don't even have laundry done. And the next 2 weeks are going to be tough at my job, someone is on vacation. I have to figure out how to function somehow. I am starting to second guess my vet after reading all the kidney diet info at that link that Lori provided. My friend keeps telling me to take things one day at a time. I know she is right, but I am not able to do that very well right now. I know you all understand, and I am so thankful that I can vent here. I have a headache from crying so much and I want this sick feeling in my stomach to go away. I feel like kind of a wreck.

It's okay, of course you can't concentrate on anything else other than this at the moment. Remember when cushings came up the first time? And then Lysodren, then the crisis, etc, etc, etc. You handled all of that so well, really proud of you.

However, YOU have to learn as much as you can before you start to take it in and feel calm, so finding out what you need to know is your way of coping. Once you have a better handle on it, things will seem more manageable. Your friend is right too, one day at a time and right now, this time, is that you need to step back away from the reading for a bit. You are starting to overwhelm yourself it sounds like and that doesn't let you fully just digest the information. So, calm, step back, do the laundry, do anything else, but try to just not look up new info till you can really wrap your mind around what you have already read.

Just deep breathes. Think calmly, make your notes to talk to vet and go from there.
Big Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by molly muffin

You are starting to overwhelm yourself it sounds like and that doesn't let you fully just digest the information.

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You are so right Sharlene, as usual!! ;) I have actually stopped researching and reading as of a couple of hours ago. I am wiped out. Now I need to stop ruminating over everything!! :eek:

How was your weekend? I hope you had some fun for the both of us!

Love and hugs from me and Jasper