Tipper - adrenal tumor/breathing issues

Hi Everyone:
I know a lot of us pay things forward on here so I wanted to ask if you would take the time to help a poor abused kitty named Karma have her eye removed. I saw this yesterday, and when I saw her condition it killed me to see an animal like this. They are fundraising to get 500.00 for her operation. They are 85% of the way there. I made a donation from Tipper. If you want to make one that is great, if not please post it somewhere so that others will help this poor baby. Please go to giveforward.com and put Karma in the search box that is the Kitties name, that was saved by this college student who cannot afford the operation. Please enlarge and look at what this cat has lived thru, you will never forget it. Thank You all for your time. Blessings
Patti

Patti, I'd love to donate but I've got a huge vet bill coming up the beginning of the year. Keesh has got to get dental work done, and I'm looking at another $1800.00 bill at least. It's a great cause though, hopefully they are successful.

If you can't donate I totally get it, but please try to post it somewhere to help get exposure, which is what is really needed. I know all the bills us cush parents have, so please just help get the word out. Thank You
Patti

Hi Patti,
Is there a site where they are collecting for this cat?? Whoops...I see it now on your post. I have to wonder about my reading comp skills lately. Can't donate much but I will sure give something to a cat named KARMA!!

Barbara

Barbara:
Please look at the picture and tell me if you have ever seen anything so terrible???

Yes...I saw it Patti. Terrible...so sad. I swear it actually hurts my heart when I see animals in distress...I feel the pangs. After my measly donation I see they are only $60 short...I may go back on and give more, I just feel so badly about that cat!

Barbara

Yikes Patti with the knife!! No looking away if you have a knife in your hand! That's the rules.

I think that sounds like a good plan to call Dechra. Hoping the diet will help with the hunger symptoms too.

So sad about Karma. Poor baby. I think they'll get enough to do the operation though.

hugs all,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goldengirl88

Sure no problem the nutritionist is Cat Lane her website is thepossiblecanine.com. Have you ever made your dogs food before? I think when a dog is seriously ill, they need good nutrition to maintain their current state even. This disease really makes for havoc to their whole bodies. I feel bad for you and dear Buddy and hope you can get him on the mend soon. Blessings
Patti

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Thanks for the info. Yes I made Buddy's food since the end of Feb. but I think it was October that he just decided he didn't want to eat it anymore. I tried a few different recipes on him. You are correct homemade food does make a difference when they are sick. He was on kibble before this and there was a big change in him. I wish he would eat it again I would be happy to cook for him. Maybe when he gets sick of what he's eating now he'll come back to my cooking. Good luck with Tippers new food.

Patti...Did you get an email that Karma the cat had the operation and is home? That girl was really special for saving that cat. I'm so glad Karma will be okay. Glad you posted the link because I feel good helping out even if what just in a small way.

Barbara

Patti,
I was just going to ask for the link to share with my friends on facebook when I read Barbara's post.

I pray that Karma recovers physically and emotionally.
I DESPISE people who abuse anything! I actually have to turn the channel when the ASPCA commercials come on because I start bawling immediately. So, part of me is happy not to read Karma's story.

Chris is now trained to turn it off too if I'm around. :)
"Love is....changing the channel because your fiancee can't handle ANYTHING sad. Not even a commercial." <3

How is the hand today? I bet it is excruciating to try to use. :( Please take care of yourself, try to relax today and let the hand heal a bit. Curl up on the couch with Tipper and read a good book or have a movie marathon day and just let your hand rest. I thought about how difficult it would be to have one's hand impaired even just temporarily last night as I was preparing meals and changing bedding. We moms do SO much just as our daily routine that a hurt hand would be a real handicap at times...and I know you work yourself to the bone every hour of every day. ;) So take it easy today at least, 'k?

Hope our sweet Tipper had a good night and that you were able to get some rest.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Hi Everyone:
I have cried and blubbered my way thru all the postings today. the passing of 2 of our own was a bit much for me to handle. Also the poor kitty Karma was weighing on my mind. Yes Barbara I did get an email also that the Dr. had performed Karma's operation and she made it successfully. Thank God as that poor kitty had suffered more in her short lifetime than she ever should have. This has been an emotional few days for me, I am sorry to say. it brings my Tipper's mortality up to the surface and scares me to death. I am not ashamed to say I am scared for my girl's life. Tipper has started with that congestive noise I tell everyone she makes when she is not controlled. She also got hungry yesterday during the day. Some of this may be attributed to no lentils so I am not sure how much is caused by what. I called Dechra yesterday, but the person who usually handles Tipper's file was out. I made the decision not to give her the trilo last nite and give her the full dose of 27mg this morning. It is hard with 3 pills tricking her, but it is done. So now we will se in a few days if this is right or if we must go higher to maybe 28. I am inching my way up as I do not want the pre number falling below like it did before. I am eagerly awaiting Tipper's recipes today to see what I must get to cook for her. I will be glad to get her started as I am worried about her lately and I think this can help. We are having a warmer day today maybe some rain. Then later in the week really low temperatures. God Bless Everyone on the forum and all your sweet babies.
Patti

Take care of yourself, Patti and let us know how Tipper is doing.
Some days can be really hard here so take a break and maybe distract yourself with a book or movie, something you enjoy. We worry so about your pups. I admit I am afraid to put up Zoe's tree this year. We bought 4 new birds for it but now I am just afraid to put it up.:o:o

Do you like old movies? Sometimes this time of year there are some great old movies on TV. I watched the original Father of the Bride some time ago and just really enjoyed it!!!

Hi Everyone:
I was online with the dietician, and of course Dechra called. I got to talk to them anyway. They said I did the procedure correctly in withholding the evening dose and giving her the whole dose in the morning. They said I am going to have to inch my way up towards 30mg. If we get close and she is not controlled then it is back on the 30mg once a day. They said she may need a much lower pre number than they would like to see in order to control the symptoms of the post number. She would have to have ACTH's more frequently- are you kidding me she averages over one a month, I don't think I can do that to her. I am praying before we hit 30 mg she is controlled. They have it in their notes that every time she is not controlled she starts with this congestive stuff. I sent a letter to the IMS and I am actually able to fax her from my own house now!! I will see what she says about all this stuff rolling around in my head. I got one meal plan for Tipper. It takes an awful lot of supplements, minerals etc. which I have already ordered. I just need to get some sweet potatoes not yams and Buckwheat groats. I have the rest here. I am anxious to get her on this and get some weight off her and get her feeling better. She usually gets her evening dose of trilo at 5 she was waiting and is acting hungry, but she was ok today. I know it will take a few days to see if this is good for her. I hope she sleeps well tonite. She has walked 3 times today. We go for the Adequan shot and blood pressure tomorrow, then I go at 4 for the kidney stone scan. I am trying my hardest to help her beat this disease back. I pray to God it works out. Blessings
Patti

Hi Patti,

I agree the last couple days have been very hard and I have sobbed right along with everyone else on the forum. We hate to lose even one furbaby.

I'm glad you have a meal plan for Tipper, that should be interesting. That didn't come with any alternates that can be used if she gets tired of one thing, etc?

I do hope that this switch will help to control Tipper's cortisol. It is so hard to get under control and I think much harder when a adrenal tumor is involved.

Hang in there. You are doing so good. Dechra obviously agrees with what you have done, so you made the right call. Again. Sheezz..did you mention to them how expensive those ACTH test get and no way that anyone can keep up the pace of doing one a month even, without going broke? They just don't seem to think in terms of realistic somtimes.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

I know Patti, sometimes it gets to be too much but I feel guilty if I don't come on here at least once a day.

I'm glad that Dechra agreed and hopefully this will help Tipper.

I have a question re the congestive episodes. It would seem like this is significant and I was wondering if you have videotaped them on your phone to share with the vet? It seems this stuff never happens when around a vet. I had to do that with Annie. I filmed it and put it on utube and sent the link to K State Univ. Get up close and turn up the volume so the noise that you talk about is clear in the audio.

I would be interested in seeing/ hearing that.

You had asked me about pheos and I remember reading that there is now a urine test that can be done. Perhaps someone with more knowledge than me can share how accurate it is etc. Sorry it wasn't offered to me or I surely would have done it.

I agree - during my long journey there were times when I was just plain exhausted and had to take a break from it all for a few days. Just to gather my strength and sanity and of course I did all that so I could enjoy the time I had with Annie. Be sure to take care of yourself and don't lose sight of the fact that both you and Tipper are very much alive and together. Enjoy each and every minute. I wish I could take your pain and worry away. I truly do. Big bear hugs, Kim

I've asked Gingers mom about the urine test, they mentioned as a possibility for Ginger to rule out a pheo.

hugs
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Patti, I haven't been keeping up with Tipper's thread and am wondering if something is going on that makes you think that Tipper may have a pheochromocytoma? I just went back to your firsts posts and reconfirmed that Tipper was diagnosed with cushing's, which was reconfirmed by Dr. Peterson. Tipper's acth post stimulated cortisol was definitely high so the adrenal gland(s) are over secreting cortisol. Pheochromocytomas don't secrete cortisol, they secrete catecholamines, epinephrine and nor-epinephrine. Some of the symptoms mimic cushing's and there is a possibility that a dog with a pheo can have concurrent cushing's but it is rare.

Glynda

Glynda:
Thank you for taking the time to go thru my girl's thread as I know how busy you are. I appreciate any and all input from you. The reason I kept thinking pheo was because for about a year the adrenal tumor was not know about, which could have been the poor imagery the vet used for an Ultra Sound. So we have no way of knowing if it was there when she was first diagnosed or it came later. It worried me because I knew a pheo could be a possibility. Because Tipper has many muscle contractions and tremors at nite I thought it was similar to Kim's Annie shaking. Tipper only does this when sleeping at nite- I have never seen it in the day, and when I call her name or wake her it immediately stops. Someimes it is so bad it shakes her side and abdomen. I have read that these things can be a side effect of Vetoryl. What do you think of this? Also because this has been on my mind I faxed the IMS some questions about Tipper. I asked what she thought about this being a pheo. She said although you cannot know for sure that pheos usually have a characteristic appearance on an Ultra Sound and Tipper's did not. She also said pheo dogs do horribly under anesthesia and Tipper does wonderful. She also said that in line with the pituitary cushings the ct scan was elevated for it. This has brought some sense of calm over me. Also on her recheck of her tumor it had not increased in size at all after 2 months. I am to have it checked again January 15th. What do you make of these terrible tremors she exhibits at nite? Do you think it is the Vetoryl? I also got Tipper a nutritionist and she gave me a recipe to start her on. I am wanting to know if you think this will help her health to be on a cooked diet rather than the dog food and chicken she has been on?? Thank you in advance for your help. So many of you have thrown me a life raft at the time I felt like I was sinking and revived me again. I appreciate it greatly as this dog means the world to me. I will post after my vet visit this morning. Blessings
Patti

I would think if it were a pheo the tremors wouldn't stop when you called her name. Annie's were mostly at night but not just when sleeping so I think I'd cross pheo off the list.

Did you see my post re videoing the congestive episodes? Thanks, Kim

Patti- did Tipper have these nightly sleeping tremors when she was on 30mgs once a day? I'll recap what we have had, maybe it will give you insight, not sure:

Zoe's tremors and head bobbing, and severe front leg tremors started in mid October, I had never seen them before except for her bad front leg but that tremor was never so severe that her whole head would shake from her front leg shaking. The tremors usually occurred in the early evening sometimes before her evening Vetoryl dose, sometimes after. There were times her head would shake like you described- Parkinsons and then she would literally fall over. I thought it was mini seizures. She has not had one for 12 days now and her tremors are better. Her post was 1.9 ug/dl. As you know I cut back her evening dose by one half to see what I get now.

That is why I wondered for Tipper if you saw her tremors on once day dosing.

Hi Patti, do you know what your IMS meant when she said Pheo dogs do horribly under anesthesia? I'm asking because Ginger had a terrible reaction after she came out of her sedation for her ultrasound last week and I'm thinking of doing this urine test to further investigate if she has Pheo.
The more I think about Ginger's progress (reaction) since the initial Lysodren loading the more head scratching I'm doing about her cushings diagnosis. To my very untrained eye, she just seems to do better with higher cortisol level in her system:rolleyes: than those of recommended ranges which makes me think her cushings symptoms may be secondary to something else. Then what do I know about any of this? I just know when she feels better and when she does not.:o

Kim, Song, Addy:
Thanks for reading my post. I have to say I was relieved to get the message from the IMS and she sent it to the vet also. Song when Ginger does this shaking at nite call her name loud enough just so she can hear you, and see if the shaking stops. If it is controllable that she can shut it off, then like Kim said I think it is not a pheo. I would seriously reconsider that test due to what I have been told. I don't know exactly what the IMS meant about the appearance of a pheo on an ultra sound, but I will surely ask her about it for you. The fact that Ginger did have a bad time with the anesthesia does follow with what my IMS said. It would probably involve the blood pressure going really high would be my guess?? This stuff all is enough to make me crazy, what a complicated disease this is. No one should have to go thru this. Blessings
Patti

Hi Everyone:
Well the IMS sent the same letter to my vet yesterday and he already read it- miracles never cease! He said it eased his mind too. Tipper had good blood pressure, but she gained weight again. Can you believe this??? So I am really happy I got the meal recipe so I can get her started. I went over Tipper's dosage change with the vet and told him what Dechra said. We will probably got to a dosage of 8mg on the trilo then as I am inching my way up even though it is more expensive I must do it this way. I am not giving her one more mg of this stuff than is absolutely necessary. I told him about the change in diet and he totally agreed with it. He said you are the only client I have that would ever do this to help their dog, and I have confidence in you ,that you are determined enough with Tipper that this will in fact help her. Glad he is confident in me as I am shivering in my boots at the thought of all this food prep. and getting it right. I told him also about her congestive sounds again as she is uncontrolled. She got her Adequan and hopefully this and the new dosage will put her where she needs to be. I am giving her until the end of this week to see if this change in when she gets the dosage amount helps her. If not Monday morning I will call the vet to get the 8mg dosage form DiamondBack to add to the 20 mg Vetoryl I have. I had to call the place where I get her chicken and order dark meat also. She has to eat a combo of both and I was only feeding her the white before because of the fat, but I guess she needs this instead. This is costing a small fortune I do not have for 25 lbs of the chicken, all the supplements, minerals, fish oil and plus all the supplements I give her. I am gong to have a very tight month with funds due to all this. It needs to be so no more whining on that front. I got myself together yesterday after a few crying days and I am ready for battle again. I hope there mini novels I write help someone else from any mistakes, or help them to figure something out they have been wondering about. If so it is all worth it. Blessings
Patti

Quote:

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Originally Posted by My sweet Ginger

Hi Patti, do you know what your IMS meant when she said Pheo dogs do horribly under anesthesia? I'm asking because Ginger had a terrible reaction after she came out of her sedation for her ultrasound last week and I'm thinking of doing this urine test to further investigate if she has Pheo.
y to something else.

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Song, pheos are basically tumors that emit adrenaline and cause high blood pressure. They are not always active. When they are active they emit the adrenaline. This is why using anesthesia is a risk with them. Prior to surgery they are given specific drugs to help with this.

That said my Annie had to have emergency dental work done because her vet refused to clean her teeth (and put her under) due to the pheo... but she had an infection so bad it ate through the side of her face! Yes a hole. Anyway they put her under to do that work and she did just fine.

So saying that they'll have a bad time with it is probably not quite right... it's more like "it is more challenging as problems can occur". There are different types of anesthesia so I would certainly tell your vet about it and suggest they try something different next time.

Kim

Patti, be sure to check Song and Ginger's thread - she posted some good details on testing for Pheos we want to be sure you see. ;)

Kim:
I am glad you asked me if I saw your post re video of congestive noises. For some reason I missed it and just now read it. I am going to try it, the only problem is I will need to turn the TV down so her noises can be heard, and as soon as I do she wakes up. I have to have someone see this and hear it. Thank you for always helping when I need it. Blessings
Patti

Hi Everyone:
Well Tipper was up and down last nite. She had a lot of tremors all through the nite. Usually it subsides when she is sleeping awhile which is making me question if this could be a something associated with REM sleep as during that time there is no inhibition of voluntary muscles. Could the Vetoryl be causing this during her REM sleep??? There are also things called myoclonic jerks. If you ever woke suddenly thought your arm or leg jerked, it is very common from what I understand. Could the Vetoryl make you predisposed to moer myoclonic jerks and this is what I am seeing. Tipper breathes different during this time also which the IMS and other Dr.'s at the hospital said this is part of her sleep pattern. I am going to try and capture it on my IPhone, but my greatest fear is that someone will tell me it is symptoms of a pheo. secreting adrenaline. I have not received the supplements for Tipper's new diet yet, but did get part of the food yesterday. I cannot find sweet potatoes, as the whole world thinks that yams are sweet potatoes as she cannot have yams it must be sweet potatoes because of the vitamins and yams are full of sugar. Finally I thought to call the store that orders the chicken in for Tipper. They said they would be more than glad to help and will order me 10lbs. I can have them tomorrow. Can you believe this that all the other big stores cannot get these?? Thank God because when the supplements come I will have everything to make her food. I am anxious to get her started as she gained weight again and I believe it has to be metabolic. I actually count her dog food nuggets so how can that be?? Tipper has already walked twice so we are in for the day as I see rain coming. I need to do paperwork and pay bills and catch up on office stuff so she will be bored. Blessings
Patti

Hi Patti... just catching up on things. Sure hope the diet works for Tipper.

Keesh and I are well, other then my back is killing me from lifting him. He's fine though.... the little so and so.

Hi Everyone:
If you can believe this luck! Tipper was taking a nap on my bed. She started with the tremors and noise she makes breathing, so I grabbed the IPhone and started to video it, just as I started the ____ phone rang from the vets office and I had to answer it. I guess I video taped the walls in my room as it was still running as I was talking. I will try later or tomorrow. We are having all kinds of storm warnings and the temperature had dropped some 25 degrees in the last few hours. Watch Tipper's sweet potatoes and chicken will be in over the weekend and I will have to go out in this to get it! Never fails that something comes up when I want to stay in. I hope all this is gone by Tuesday when I have to go to Pittsburgh to the Dr. I am going to catch two kitties here who need their nails trimmed. Blessings
Patti

Hello there

Just nipping into say hey

Typical that you were just taping and the phone rung!

Was glad to read that you managed to get hold of those pesky sweet potatoes as that would have been a nightmare if you couldn't. Seems like the nutritionist was very thorough so I really hope it helps. I know how diligently you watch what you feed her so lets hope she drops a few ounces and isn't so hungry.

Stay safe and warm in all these storms, the uk is getting some wintry weather too, is very cold but no snow yet. Hoping everyone stays safe

Big hug to you and kisses to Tipper the Ripper

Mel
Xxxxxx

Hi Mel:
I miss you and know you are busy, but looking in on us and keeping track of what is going on. Tipper is scaring me with all the tremors etc. at nite. I am hoping to get to the bottom of this once and for all. Hope you and Boyce are doing well. We are in the middle of a nasty storm right now so we are staying in unless I have to go out to get the sweet potatoes!! Blessings to you both
Patti

It is so cold outside, Patti and it looks like Arkansas was hit with ice and now snow:(

We might have snow today or tomorrow for sure:mad: I dont like that word:p

I wish we knew what all these tremors meant for our pups. I did watch an online video of a Kings Charles with Cushings and read an article posted by a "vet" saying those tremors are typical for Cush pups. Zoe's seem more pronounced ( and since she never had them before I tend to think I have either uncovered somethingwith the lower cortisol or something else is going on.

With Tipper, she has had them now for awhile so it may just be Cushings for her. We will both keep searching for answers.

Lots of love

Patti, don't risk your limbs or life for sweet potatoes! Tipper will be fine if you need to wait a week or so to get started - that is MUCH better than you harming yourself or worse....then who would do all you do for Tipper? ;) Don't take risks you don't absolutely HAVE to til the weather clears...and SP ain't a "have to". ;)

Hi Everyone:
Well we woke up this morning to about 3 inches of new snow. Tipper is happy to have it and has already walked. The temperature is 35 so she can walk if it is above 32. She had some tremors last nite, not as many as the nite before though. I am trying to get it worked out to video as when she lays down to sleep the only lite is from my TV and I could clearly see yesterday that is not enough to see her well. If I turn on a lite she wakes up, so I am going to have to leave a small lite on and see if she will lay down and sleep with it on. We are to be getting the bad storm for 3 days here so I called and cancelled my Dr. 's appointment and made it for January instead. I can't be getting in a wreck on ice with my sick dog at home with a sitter, I am not chancing that. The only reason I will go out is to get her sweet potatoes and chicken when they come in. Hopefully the supplements will be here today and I can make her food this weekend. Hope everyone on here stays safe and warm with their babies. Blessings
Patti

Leslie:
Oh my you hung in there? What is it like down there? Probably lots of ice? I will get the sweet potatoes only if the main route is clear and it goes right to that store. They usually clear the main highways so I will wait and see. can you believe I got the sweet potatoes and she will order them any time I need them. I was afraid to ask what they cost so I skipped that part. Hope you and the babies are safe and warm. Blessings
Patti

Hi Patti,
Sorry that Tipper has been having these tremors. Does she seem bothered at all by them?
My friend just texted me a photo of the snow falling in Pittsburgh. I guess you already have snow on the ground where you are..glad Tipper got to get out to walk in it. We had warm weather and rain showers all day, now our temps are dropping fast..and it's pouring like crazy, I don't know if Trixie will go out in this for her before bed walk, and that would be a problem. Hoping it lets up or changes to snow over the next hour.

Barbars

When I left for work this morning the temp was MINUS 1. When I came home the sun was out and it hard warmed up... all the way to 11 degrees. OMG is it cold. We are supposed to get snow on Sunday night - nothing here yet in Nebraska. The whole country is frozen!

Back to the tremors and the breathing issues... I can see the challenge of filming but please keep trying as I'd really think it would be helpful to see it. Not just us but also the vet. Hang in there and stay warm. Kim

Hi Everyone:
It is very cold here and I could hear ice hitting the windows last nite. The ground is just really ice crusted on top of snow. I am waiting to see if they call about Tipper's chicken today as she is completely out as of yesterday. I gave her white fish this morning, she ate it but it does not fill her up like her chicken. Hoping the sweet potatoes are in too and can pick them up at the same time. Tipper had some tremors last nite not nearly like the nite before. I left a small lite on, and she would not go to sleep. I need the lite so I can video her tremors so I hope if I leave it on a few nites she will forget about it and go to sleep so I can video her. With only the tv lite it is too dark to see. I will keep trying. Her supplements did not come yet so I am still waiting for those too. She has not walked today as I am afraid of her slipping on the ice and those back legs going out on her. We are in for more ice and snow over the next 3 days. I cancelled my appt. with the Dr. in Pittsburgh so I will be home with my girl. Blessings
Patti