I missed it too!
Happy birthday, Zoe!
I am so glad she was feeling happy and energized!
Julie & Hannah
Printable View
I missed it too!
Happy birthday, Zoe!
I am so glad she was feeling happy and energized!
Julie & Hannah
A belated Happy Birthday
Hugs Sonja and your secret admirer Apollo
Thank you.
Wont have stim results until next week:mad::mad:
Had a bit of a run in with IMS today. She totally flip flopped about twice day dosing and when I asked why she gave me this talk about a conference last June she attended and twice day dosing is really only if cortisol is controlled and symptoms are rebounding at night. I pressed her and she seemed ticked off at me.:(:(:o
Zoe's kidney values are fine she said. Everything normal. I told her the white plaque spots are gone on her shoulders. She said she knew, she checked and that she did not have to tell me how rare that was even if we caught her calcinosis early. I felt weird when she said that, like I did not know how to take it.
Anyway, I think she is ticked off at me because I mentioned about the papers I have been reading about the benefits of twice day dosing and that Dr. Feldman's studies indicated a dog could be controlled with less Trilostane per day.
She made some negative comment about the endocrinologists. I probably need to be more tactful with her.
End result is she feels since Zoe is not having any side effects now, there is no reason to go to twice day dosing if we have to increase her dose next week. If she starts having side effects, then we can consider it. I was just trying to prevent that from happening in the first place because I think we will have to up her again next week to 40 mgs. She gained weight and is 18 pounds now.
I guess I will be Addy Scarlett and think about it tomorrow.:confused::rolleyes:;)
You know what? I delt with a Cushings IM specialist for about a month and she was the same way. At one point she siad..... if I was having a problem with her she could get someone else to take over. Geez, if things aren't already bad enough as it is, you don't need to be treated so... Like.... how dare you question anything I do!!! All that does is make you feel like they don't know what they are doing.
Then again... all vets give me that feeling..... :mad:
I think with all of the research you've done you should go with your gut. I'm with you, why wait for more crap for Addy to go through that you can deal with later. hugs, Judi
Really? Unless your IMS is a senior citizen, I dare say that she probably had to buy a textbook or two co-authored by Dr. Feldman when she was in vet school. I don't believe there is anyone living or passed who possesses such impressive credentials.Quote:
Originally Posted by addy
Quote:
Dr. Feldman is Board Certified in Small Animal Internal Medicine and is currently Professor in Medicine & Epidemiology at UC Davis. He has taught small animal internal medicine for more than 25 years and authored more than 50 book chapters, authored or co-authored more than 140 peer-reviewed scientific publications and more than100 scientific abstracts. Dr. Feldman is a cofounder and former president of the Society of Comparative Endocrinology, a special interest group open to all veterinarians. He is the recipient of numerous awards, including the Norden Distinguished Teaching Award, the California Academy of Veterinary Medicine's Award for Teaching Excellence, and SmithKline Beecham Award for Research Excellence. He has co-authored two textbooks, the Textbook of Veterinary Internal Medicine with Dr. Stephen Ettinger, and Canine and Feline Endocrinology and Reproduction with Dr. Richard Nelson.
Hi Glynda,
I know Dr. Feldman's credentials and so does IMS but IMS got ticked off. She said she knew the study I was referring to but would not budge and then made a negative comment about "these endocrinologists". I dlont remember her exact words.:(:(
And what confused me more is I know that was the study she had read last September when she first suggested going to twice day dosing.
I dont get it and I dont know if I should do it her way or insist on my way. :confused::confused::confused:
I guess I have all weekend to think about it. Probably all next week too:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::eek::eek:
Tempermental doctors!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:
love,
me
Okay, maybe we have had a change of heart here. IMS just called me:eek::eek::eek: Unheard of!!!!;););););)
Pre 3.7 post 7.3
Zoe always has to make the call hard!!!!:(:(:(:(:(
I feel she is still displaying symptoms, she is still very hungry, still at the water bowl has an accident in the house every other day. I can't say her symptoms are worse at night. She has had an accident at differen times of the day. Once in the morning, once after supper. On the plus side, plaque deposts are gone on her shoulders, she is playing with Koko, she has spurts of energy and wants to play. She is more alert. But she gets up so darn early!!!!!!
IMS thinks she can handle the 40mg sid and that it is easier for me and easier to know what is going on. BUT if I feel better doing BID, she is fine with it. Why didn't she said that yesterday??????
I am worried that we are getting up there in dosing and I worry about her pogo problem which is I wanted to go to BID.
I could try 40mgs SID and see how she does.
I am so confused now. We have colitis, allergies and allergy eyes. I dont think she can stay where she is. I wish I could say she could but I am afraid she will pogo back up.
IMS is on the fence because of me. She really believes Zoe should do 40mgs SID. She really thinks Zoe will handle it. I make her second guess herself, I think.:o:o:o:o
Baby, baby, let me sleep on it!!!!!!!!
addy scarlett
Hi Addy -
My vote.....which is the same as I said before...is twice a day. From all you have explained, I think you should move on this. How long is it that you've been trying to figure this out? (I do NOT mean that harshly.) When the dosages are available, it just makes so much sense to me to even it out. Instead of "hitting" Zoe with 40, you give her 20 and later, after some of the 20 has "been used" you give another 20. I don't remember what her dosage is now....can you remind me?
I just looked back to the information I kept on Palmer......and I don't think your numbers are all that high.....just a tad higher than the range.......am I right about that? Whatever the dosage is, I would go up by something. That's me. :)
With love,
Sus
If I truly do not have to worry about her pogoing back up, once a day dosing if I use Vetroyl will cost less. If I buy Vetoryl and have to buy 4 packs of 10mgs I will spend double, over $200 a month. I am now spending $100 (about) a month for her eye drops.
I paid $98 for two boxes of 10mgs=60 pills.
I paid $65 for one box of 30 mgs=30 pills
Dr. Allen did say he thought once I found her
dose" she would level out and stay there for a while.
I guess I'll bump to 40 SID and hold my breath. I want to review all my charts first.
love,
addy
Addy - what about cutting pills? I did that & it was less expensive.
Love,
Sus
Dear Addy
As we all know dealing with Cushing Meds can be a very slippery slope. All I can say from my experience the first IMS I went to had quite an inflated attitude . I did not always agree with him and it ruffled his feathers . He would not contact our beloved Dr. Oliver on questions I had nor Dechra on the information on doseing. I went by what the manufacture said not the IMS and Apollo did fine. I went back to my own vet who listens to me, talks things out with me and has Apollo,s best interest at heart. Despite what many say about IMS's, they to often time are black and white about issues and do not look at the gray area and their opinion is the only right one . I am sorry to disagree. You and I have been on this journey for almost two years, and both our babies are still here. Yes they both have more issues now, but we have listened and weighed all the issues,etc .out .
So my friend, once again I say listen to your gut . You are very intone to Zoe. The specialist should listen,support you, and discuss with you, if not then she is not doing her job .
Hugs Sonja and Apollo
Dearest Sister Addy Scarlett,
I am not as familiar with Trilo, but what Susan/MOM said about the twice a day at 20mg each seems like it would be better on Zoe with her other issues. I cut Maddie's Lyso and that wasn't a safe thing--didn't touch it and washed everything afterwards--kind of weird you don't want to touch it but you give it to your buddy to put in their system.:eek::eek: I was spending about $167 for 30 pills and I think I only give her it 3 days a week.
You are good with your gut so I would go with it, but do more research so you are comfortable with your decision. You know Zoe better than anyone. It does wear you down all this thinking and what ifs...:o
We are here to sound off of so keep asking for advice.
((((HUGS))))
I agree with Sonja that there is no black and white with cushing's and I also agree that not all vets, whether gp or IMS are created equal. What is important is that if you disagree with your IMS and s/he gets offended because you don't agree or ask them to explain why their recommendation is best, then find another IMS....one who will take the time to explain their rationale to you. We aren't ignorant and nobody knows our dog's outward behavior like us but do we actually know what's going on inside their bodies? The answer is no but they do give us big clues in the way of the usual symptoms and development of other conditions as a consequence of a hypersteroid battered immune system. The biggest clue of all is an acth stimulation test that should give us a clue as to why we are seeing the other clues. Is that too many clues in one sentence? Am I clueless? :D
I'm a go with your gut person most of the time too but I'm one member who rarely uses that phrase around here. Where cushing's is concerned, I personally believe it's okay to go with your gut but only if your gut is educated. I think Marie gave you some very sound advice when she mentioned to go with your gut but do the research so that you feel comfortable with the decision. Knowing you, I believe you've already done that and have looked things from every angle so That's a really good thing because I'd be concerned about your gut if it was telling you to ignore an unacceptably high stimulated cortisol number and to ignore those pesky symptoms and to forget about any dosing change. Believe me, your gut would be very wrong and Zoe would never get better. My gut is telling me that I've used the word "gut" way too many times but wait....there's more.
When it comes to deciding on an increase in dosing, then I believe you should be all ears when your gut is talking to you. If it's telling you that Zoe will handle 20mg BID better than 40mg SID, then go with your gut. Either way, your IMS is on board with it and you'll still be on track to meet the ultimate goal, being to get your girl stabilized on an effective dose that will finally resolve all symptoms and halt the adverse impact of high cortisol on her cute little body. No matter which avenue you choose, I predict that Zoe will arrive at her destination shortly and she'll get there safely because her mom will make sure of it. Won't that be an amazing feeling after all this time? :D
Dearest Addy,
Are you sure, we don't go to the same IMS, cause yours sounds exactly like mine. Ughhhh....
I just wanted to say I've been thinking about you and your girl. Been a very emotional last few weeks with my friend's little boy with cancer. He finally lost the battle and passed on Monday....very gut wrenching.
Take care of you and the Zoe and know you are both in my heart always.
Tight hugs, xo Jeanette and Princess
One more question since I now have her allergies to contend with along with the colitis/IBD-
if her colitis can handle the dose increase SID is it better for her allergies to keep her on SID so her cortisol rises later in the day?
Okay, I lied, another question, not just one;);)
IF I put her on 40 SID and I get side effects can I stop it and switch to BID or does she have to be stimmed first?
Jeannette- I am so sorry to hear of your loss. A child's death is so hard and should not be.
Sus, Marie, Sonja thank you for your input. I always pay attention.
LAST QUESTION: FLURIPROFEN EYE DROPS- can it cause systemic side effects? she does seem to be sleeping alot, not sure how much of that is her eye problem and/or meds.
I'll get it anwsered this week and start new dose by the weekend. I have to take off work for the stim so I have to check the calendar and time it.
I did the last go round half of my way and half IMS way and that seemed to not cause problems.
love,
addy
Hi Addy-
I just want you to know I'm thinking of you and Zoe. I also wanted to update you on our allergy situation. I have decided that I am going to try to do baths every three days for a couple of weeks and see if that helps.
The vet I like who does the laser treatment said that derm vets are really coming back around to the idea of baths to manage allergies-if the dog can tolerate it and the human can keep up. She recommended I try that before Cyclosporine. She did say she knows it can really help dogs with allergy issues and feels that it should be okay, but says there are always a small number of dogs who don't do well and I don't know that Hannah won't be one of them.
It's the Cushing's/immune system issues that I worry about, even though she is doing well. I just don't want to create a new problem. The derm vets seemed to feel there was no concern, as does my regular clinic vet, but I'd rather try other things first.
I am waiting to hear from my vet on if I should use the Ketochlor (which I have and used yesterday) or Pyoben, which is another veterinary shampoo the laser vet said is good. I think I will try Claritin too, but only after I try the baths, so I know what is working and what isn't. I guess they say if a dog is over a "5" on the itch scale from 1-10 then antihistamines won't help. She is definitely over a 5 right now, but maybe it is temporary with what is blooming outside.
I gave a bath yesterday and let the Ketochlor sit on her for 10 min. (just wrapped her in a towel and held her) and the itching was not too bad, but she was pretty worn out from a weekend away from home with lots of other dogs.
To top things off, after a long weekend at my parents' house with lots of dogs, Hannah seems to have scratched her eye last night, so now we're back at it with the Gentamicin drops-and I even gave her an Atropine drop last night because it looked so painful. Luckily, she seems a little better today.
I'll keep you posted on how things go...
Julie & Hannah
Hi Julie,
I am so glad you updated me on Hannah. I think you have a good shot at the baths. I would try it.
I think we may have a clue for Zoe. Last week the lawen people did not show up so hubby cut a small area of grass where the dogs do their business. Zoe's bad eye turned very red for 2 days.
Today the lawn people came and her bad eys started tearing and tonight after I got home from work, her eyes are red and she sneezed outside a few times.
GREAT!!! she is allergic to GRASS:eek::eek::eek::rolleyes:
Do you think I can do a desert landscape in Wisconsin?:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Does anyone have a comment on my possbile theory of will Vetoryl SID dosing help her allergies at all? My thought was if her coprtisol strats to rise durring the day maybe that would help or is that wishful thinking on my part?
I am going ahead with the 40mgs SID and I wish I had a better feeling about it. I dont. I was fine with the 30mgs sid. I just dont have a good feeling about this. IMS thinks she will be fine.
I hope I am wrong and she is okay.
love,
addy
Hi Addy,
It's been a while since I posted here but I have been following along:) Just a thought.. I have used artificial turf in some of my doggy yards. It's a bit pricey though, otherwise I would have done my whole yard:D It looks like real grass but no mowing or fertilizers. I did keep it sprinkled to wash away the urine... Kinda like flushing the toilet :p and picked up poop just like you would in any yard. It's very porous so the water does go right thru. I installed it on a 2 or 3 inch bed of finely crushed rock and sand.
I see they sell it at home depot now. The first time I had to special order as it was new on the market, the second time, Pattee found it on line at Walmart and they delivered. It comes like a roll of carpet.
Just a thought.
Hi John,
What a nice suprise to hear from you and what a great idea. I will really look into that. I was thinking about some kind of "dog poo area" without grass but thought the pups would not like stones and Koko will eat wood chips:eek::eek::eek:
Artifical turf sound good to me:):):):):)
I gave her the 40mgs this morning. I just did it so I would not vacilate any more or take any more time to think. Shocked the pants off hubby when I told him to keep a close eye on her and why.
I was so on the fence over this, it was the only way to move forward.
I admit to having a pit in my stomach and not feeling especially brave.
I'm such a wimp!!!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::o:o:o
Made through day one and counting.
I wasn't going to post with all the new members needing help. I felt a tad guilty.:o:o:o:o
We are okay. We are strong, we are survivors, we will be fine.
love,
addy
fingers crossed that it works! Judi
Hi Addy,
Not post?!?!?! Why, we would come find you if you didn't post! Yours and Zoe's journey will help others down the road so post away, darlin'. You are helping old and new members every time you do. Plus, we love you both and want to know every little detail. :)
I am glad you made a decision and acted on it. That's the only way I know of to see if this dose and schedule will help or if you need to try twice a day dosing. You have taken the step necessary to learn what you need to know to help Zoe feel her best...just as you always do. ;)
Now, I expect to hear from you often to let us know how things are going, 'k? :)
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
Addy, I'm very sorry I didn't have a chance to reply to you earlier, but I agree that I'm glad you've gone ahead with the 40 mg. dosing. Until you've gotten Zoe's cortisol into that prime therapeutic range, I just don't think you will ever be able to draw any conclusions as to whether or not she'll do better or worse with her cortisol well-controlled. I'm SOOO hoping she'll do better, so I've got my fingers crossed that this will work!
Sending very hopeful wishes your way!
Marianne
A HUGE step forward! Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, Addy!!!
I know that took a lot of courage and faith.
Please do let us know how it is going.
Love,
Sus
Leap of faith is putting it mildly;););)
Once I knew her alt doubled and we were looking at cutis and I finally actually had a dog acting like she had Cushings instead of a permanent bad hair day I knew I had to bring her cortisol down. The only question was to change to twice day dosing or not.
If the 40mgs does not work, we are going on BID, no question.
She actually has slept until 5:30 am the last 3 nights:D:D:D:D:D
I know it is only day two but she so far is perfectly fine. Yesterday she was pretty tired two hours into her new dose but today, shes good. A bit of back leg trembling, I may have to go back to one day on and one day off for walks. It worked for her so well last time.
Each day will get easier.
Thank you all.
See, Marianee, I did it on my own, no push needed. Well okay I will admit to a gentle reminder from Glynda:D:D:D:D:D
What would I do if it was not for all of you?????
love you so,
addy
MIA Marie here finally!!:D
Sounds good so far for you and Zoe!! You are not a whimp--you are strong!!
I am writing this in the car on Ella's first road trip. :eek::D
I think the artifical turf is an excellent idea myself. I would do it if Ella was allergic--so far so good, but you never know.
BIG ((((HUGS)))) from your sis Marie Irene!!!
Addy I haven been posting but did check up on Zoe......I pray that this dose helps....believe me I know how hard it is to decide what root to take!! But fingers, toes, paws....everything is crossed for good results!! Give Zoe a sweet kiss from us! Hope mom is doing ok too!
Hugs nd kisses xoxo
Deqr Addy
you and Zoe are in my thoughts and prayers. Zoe hang in there.
Dealing with the cutis skin issues also.
Will post
Hugs Sonja and Apollo
Thanks guys, we are fine, doesn't seem like the 40mgs phased her too much yet. Her eye looks really bad again, all bloodshot and she is back to chewing her paws like crazy.
She seems alert but she is trying to rip her kong apart at the moment. I was gone last night and most of today at the condo rummage. Hubby babysat.
Koko is stuck to me like glue and Zoe is, well, cant really tell, hubby said she was very good and she is a daddy's girl but she seems a bit stressed and hyper.
I have this sinking feeling her cortisol may be heading in the wrong direction, up not down. She has been on 40 mgs sid since Tuesday, April 24th.
It did rain all day and she hates wet feet. Maybe that is why she is chewing her paws. Her eye looks bad.
I am glad I am home tonight with her and Koko.
love,
addy
Hi Addy,
How are things going today? Hannah's itching (actually more licking) has been really bad lately as well. She is back to licking her inner back legs/groin area a lot too, so I am watching/waiting for sores to develop. None so far. I have been doing the Ketochlor baths twice a week and leaving it on for ten minutes before rinsing. I thought it was better at first, but now I'm not so sure. (She has had 3 baths; today will be number 4). I am thinking it might be time to try the Claritin, but I still want to check the dose. I haven't heard back from the IM vet in two weeks so I am getting a little frustrated. I just wanted her input on the allergy situation before moving forward-especially with the Cyclosporine. I don't know what to do. I just don't want to make anything worse for her or create a new problem.
Are you still using the Cyclosprine drops in Zoe's eye? I'm sorry that she is struggling with her allergies as well. No rain here today...I hope you won't have any either and at least then her little paws can dry.
Julie & Hannah
Hi Julie,
She is still on fluribrofen 2 x day cyclosporine BID and genteal gel 4 x day.
We thought that grass was affecting her eye but now I am wondering if it is not also the fluribofren. not sure if i spelled it right. She has appointment with eye vet this coming Saturday.
She sure is perky though. This morning she started heading down the driveway without me:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Just trotting on down:):):) And even though she has a bit if trembling in her back legs, she is JUMPINg up the step into the front door.
We have another week until the stim:confused::confused:
I have to remember to ask eye vet if this eye problem can affect her stim .
Sorry to hear about Hannah. I cant help but wonder if it is not the grass pollenating early that is causing Hannah and Zoe issues.
I sure hate to have to get out the comfy cone again. She had been doing so well.
I gave her a haircut on her face and top of her head. The hair was so long I had been putting it up in a top knot. It was causing problems for her eyes and I can't take her to the groomer right now so I watched a video on how to cut her hair:eek::eek::eek:
love,
addy
Happy Sunday Sister Addy,
I love you watched a video to trim Zoe. I have watched a few to see how I can trim Ella's behind a little around the little snub of a tail she has. I like leaving her more natural, but the hind end.....has a few issues. :eek:
I love that Zoe has a lot more energy. Maddie had the trembling in her hind legs most of the time after knowing it was part of cushings, but it didn't stop her from climbing the stairs. I know having her in a more control maintenance helped with being able to climb better.:)
I think Zoe will have a good stim and the new dosage is working even though it is nerve racking. :o
Too bad it rained on the rummage sale. Maybe you could do it again next weekend or the next.
Take care!!!:D ((((HUGS))))
Dear Addy
You are wonder women:D Now get that magic wand out.
Anxious to here how Zoe does.
Love Sonja and Apollo
hope you and Zoe are feeling ok. did you ever try the wipes Louise mentions at the end of this thread on the K9 diabetes forum? just a thought. hugs, Judi
http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1637
OMG,
Glynda had turned me on to a wonderful Etsy shop when Zoe needed sweaters to cover her tummy. I ordered two and then ordered a spring sweater for Zoe. The shop owner is delightful. Well, you may remember, she knit the most beautiful sweater, prettier than the one I had ordered and sent it along for Zoe for free. Yes, I said free.:):)
Well, I just went on their new website because I am thinking Zoe may need something light weight for summer as I am worried that bare spot on her sholuders may get sunburned.
So I clicked on dresses and there was the beautiful sweater dress sent to my pup and Chantel has now named her sweaters and she named the sweater dress----------
ZOE :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
OMG, I can't believe it. She is such a nice person. I am going to order a BUNCH of stuff:D:D:D:D:D
I can't wait to show hubby!!!!
Glynda- thank you again for the contact. Chantel is truly amazing. I gave her a super reference on Etsy.:D:D:D:D
Her shop on Etsy is FIFIME and her website is Royalfifi. Her sweaters are to die for. Incredible work and they actually fit my dogs PERFECTLY. If you need sweaters or raincoats check her out!!!!
love,
thrilled to death addy
Chantel has some really cute stuff. Check these out:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/8641426/...mer-dog-or-pet
http://www.etsy.com/listing/79763613...outure-made-to
http://www.etsy.com/listing/84952961...nitted-made-to
http://www.etsy.com/listing/41712742...ted-dog-or-pet
http://www.etsy.com/listing/79763613...outure-made-to
i'm getting this one for sure!!!!
Her clothes on RoyalFifi are a bit more money than on Etsy but she has really neat suff there too.
She has dresses made out of t shirts or knit bodice and cloth skirts.
I love shopping for Zoe.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
I'll post the links for Royalfifi
** WE CAN DO A SHIRT FOR A BOY IN THE SAME FABRIC (please convo us )
OMG I can get Koko a matching shirt. Okay , now I know I am over the top
Well.........I am over the top as well.......although the sweater I may order is not so fancy.
Thanks for the link, gals.
-susan
http://www.royalfifi.net/index.php?m...products_id=46
zoe's sweater:D:D
the link takes a bit if time to load
I found five I want- i dont think hubby will let me buy five. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
happy shopping susan!!!!
What cute clothes! I LOVE the Zoe dress! :D My girls would disown me if I put those on them, tho. Squirt would shred it getting it off and Trink would become a statue until I took it off! :p:p
I have an image in my head for an outfit for Brick that has four legs and covers everything but his head yet will allow him to do his business. His little legs are so tiny and they get so cold. I may have to learn to sew - gasp!