How's Gabe and Doree doing?
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How's Gabe and Doree doing?
Gabe seems absolutely fine. He's doing a lot of scratching and licking. It's got to be allergies. He was always allergic and I'm guessing since the cortisol is lower that they are acting up more than usual. I have to get some benadryl for him.
One thing we are noticing is that we can see his hip bones. I don't think we ever saw them before! I'm hoping it's a good thing. He's lost a few pounds, but he's been overweight for the last couple of years. He's eating, drinking and playing, so I'm happy. I sent Newsday a picture of him sleeping on one of the chairs on the deck and they emailed me yesterday that they are considering it for the Explore LI pet section. He does look beautiful! They had Sibbie in it a few weeks ago, so I hope that won't disqualify this picture. This will be my 5th or 6th picture/blurb in the paper. The first one was of Lena in the stroller with Josh when Josh was about 2 years old.
Doree is still a little confused, but the bump on her lip is going down and her ears are better. We have a cardiologist coming from the Animal Medical Center for a consult on the 9th at our vet's office. It's about $625 and he spends hours checking her out and going over everything, so we'll see.
Thanks for asking, Lori!
Yes, higher corisol levels act as a bandaid of sorts for all kinds of conditions. It reduces inflammation which helps with arthritis and allergies. Buddy's allergies went haywire once I started treating his Cushings and his cortisol level normalized. Sometimes pet parents choose not to treat Cushings in very senior arthritic dogs because Higher Cortisol levels help to control inflammation and pain.
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Originally Posted by Joan2517
He's only 9, Kathy, so I think I should try. I hope the benadryl will help. We'll see...
Wow, Joan, that is so neat that your furbaby's pictures are published in the paper!!! And glad to hear that Gabe is doing well but sorry about those allergies. Marvin used to scratch himself so much that he was breaking the hair off in that itchy area and than we finally figured out it was chicken he was allergic to, I think he also had environmental allergies, the benedryl did help Marvin a little.
Let us know how Doree makes out with the cardiologist and wishing yous the best of luck.
Gable continues to do well. His belly is starting to disappear and he looks better than he has in years (except he's getting whiter). He's sitting on furniture again, playing more and sleeping better at night. I'm thinking that the licking isn't so much allergies, but might be that he's able to clean himself again; he can reach all those places now that a lot of the weight is off.
I keep watching for signs, but he's doing good. My son was here on Saturday and hasn't seen him in about a month, and noticed right away that he wasn't as heavy and looks much better.
This is such great news, Joan! I’m so happy for you guys :-))).
And yeah, I can sympathize about the whiteness....my “baby” Luna is almost ten now, and her dad and I are both noticing that even though she’s a yellow Lab, her face is looking whiter :-(((. Where does the time go.......????
That is wonderful news about Gabe!!! YAAA!!!!
Yes, for arthritis support. My dog has been off trilostane for two weeks now. He is back to being able to go down the stairs himself. He stopped being able to about a month after he started the med.
If it turn out he really has Cushing's, I will be giving careful consideration as to whether I put him back on trilostane. And if I do, I think I will opt for a lower dose or twice daily doses because he has had GI upset from the med. (Back story: he was just diagnosed with hyperparathyroidism which may replace the Cushing diagnosis but won't know till that condition is treated).
Well, Gable has fleas. That's what all the licking is about. Gave him and Cooper NexGuard, hopefully I caught it early enough. Just finished vacuuming everything, and washing all the furniture covers.
That's interesting because my dog is severely allergic to mites. She is also highly allergic to many other things. When she starts chewing licking excessively, I start mite treatment right away, even when I am not sure she has them. That has resolved her scratching and chewing Obsession MANY times. Her hair grows back and all the redness clears up. I hope you are able to get a handle on those fleas, so all of your babies will feel more comfortable. Remember, if one has them, they all do, so they all need to be treated. Good luck!
UGH! I haven't seen them on anyone else. Sibbie is getting groomed on Tuesday, so Monica will let me know. We never put it on the little girls. Put Zodiac on Lena once and she had such a bad reaction to it. She was jumping out of skin for days!
Fleas, those pesky buggers! Suds does kill those fleas so bathing the other furbabies should take care of it but you'll need to bath them again in a week in case of eggs hatching.
Got it! Thanks, Lori!
Mix a little Dawn dishwashing liquid into your usual dog shampoo. It is safe and effective in killing mites and fleas. Use only the blue original formula. The newer Platinum formula is much more concentrated with additional ingredients. Leave on for 3 to 5 minutes before rinsing. There is no need for a special flea shampoo. They contain chemicals, which I don't like to use on my allergy baby. I use this mix as insurance all of the time, whether critters are present or not.
I am with Lori. You do need to bathe ALL of them, even if fleas aren't visable. It's hard enough to get rid of them when you do everything you possibly can.
Thanks all!
On another note. In doing the pre-pill test, if I'm dosing twice a day, 30mg in the am and 10 in the pm, what do I do? Just skip the 10 the night before? Or give him the full 40 the morning before?
Joan, my understanding is that you’d keep your normal dosing schedule in place — give Gabie his 10 mg. capsule the evening before the test, as usual. You are wanting to measure the effect that his regular dosing schedule is having on his overall cortisol production at a specific point in time. For dogs being dosed twice daily, monitoring ACTH tests have always been performed after a dog has been dosed as usual, and I assume the same is true with this resting cortisol regimen, as well. Dechra’s flowchart instructions are simply to “Book an appointment just before the next Vetoryl dose is due,” and I believe this is meant to accommodate dogs who are dosed either once or twice daily. In a case like yours where the doses are not equal, however, I’d test before the larger morning dose.
Okay, thanks Marianne. That sounds logical.
He's got all these sores from licking and biting where the fleas were. I can't believe I thought he was just cleaning himself. I am going to give him a bath on Thursday since I'll be off, and hope that helps. I gave him the flea meds on Sunday, so they should be dying off by now. Sibbie is getting groomed now and the groomer usually uses a flea shampoo. The only one vulnerable right now is Doree, but with her murmur worse, I don't want to give her the flea meds.
Poor Gabe...he must've been so uncomfortable.
Is it okay to use the lavender one? Despite my explicit instructions on my shopping list, my husband bought that one. I will try to give him credit, thinking lavender will deter ticks and fleas, but I doubt he thought that much.
I’ll hoping Kathy will weigh in, but no, sadly I don’t think the lavender version will work. I think this is what you want:
https://www.pgshop.com/Dawn-Simply-C...000236856.html
I buy this for cleaning my eyeglasses because it doesn’t mess up the protective coatings or gunk up the lenses. I can’t find it in grocery stores anymore, but I bought mine at Wal-Mart, and I think places like Home Depot or Lowe’s might carry it, too.
I hate him! :)
Actually Marianne is right, however, the blue Dawn Ultra is more readily available. It is completely safe also. That's what I use. Stay away from the Platinum version. Too many scary ingredients listed on their web-site. No sadly, I wouldn't use the Lavender version. Save it for the dishes. Your hubby meant well, but I wouldn't personally chance it.
I have never been able to use any type of flea/mite meds on my allergy dogs. I have had to rely on dilligence and safer methods. My little Buddy lived with itches most of his life. There was always something triggering them. He was highly allergic also. One of our members suggested frequent baths with Johnson's Baby Shampoo. It worked wonders, when nothing else had. A veterinary dematologist, that was a friend of Buddy's Neuro-Surgeon said that baby shampoo was very pure with extremely limited ingredients, making it better for allergy dogs than dog shampoo. I now use Johnson's Baby Bath, with the same basic ingredients, except I tweak it a little. That's where the Dawn dishwashing liquid comes to play. I mix several big squirts of it into a large bottle of the Baby Bath. I have been using this mix for many years with no adverse reaction for my allergy babies. I do not use generic baby shampoo/bath. It is probably fine, but I haven't wanted to vere away from what has worked for so long.
So, whatever shampoo your dogs do well on is fine. I would just add some blue Dawn (Simply Basic or Ultra). Remember, stay away from the Platinum version. It is a much darker blue color.
I hope this helps!! Hubby meant well. Give him some brownie points for trying!
I've used the Johnson's before with them. I'll use that with the blue Dawn. Thanks, Kathi!
Wash their faces with the baby shampoo/bath only. It is tear free. I don't use the Dawn mix on faces, around eyes. Just an extra precaution.
Well the baths didn't go as well as I wanted. I bought a kids pool, but Gable wouldn't go in and I couldn't lift him into it. I put the leash on, but he would rather strangle than get in it. I had a pot of sudsy water so I just washed him on the deck and then sprayed him down with the hose. Cooper was easier. I was soaked through with sweat and soapy water by the time we were done!
So we went to the vet yesterday. I took Gable with me to Doree's visit so that they could look at his sores. The cardiologist doesn't think that her murmur warrants any medication right now. Her heart is not enlarged, the valve is not too thick, and there is minimal leakage, so that is good news....only cost $625!!
Gable's turn. The vet combed him for fleas, no sign of any. He saw all the hot spots and figured that he could've been bit by one, and that put him in an allergic state which is out of control now. So he prescribed Apoquel, 1 tablet twice daily. After one dose, the frantic licking and scratching stopped. He slept through the night last night (he had been getting up for the last few nights around 2 or 3am), and looks so much more comfortable. I just have to keep an eye on them to make sure they don't get infected. $225 for him. A very expensive vet visit! Oh well, such is life with pets....at least we've gotten good news all around.
Care Credit is over the limit...I may have to ask for more :(
Oh dear, not so good bath-time :( but you managed, so job well done!!! That's wonderful the Apoquel has helped Gable, what a relief for you both! I'm also happy to hear that Doree's heart murmur doesn't require medication, so all in all, good news all around, but expensive :( When Bear needed his leg amputated I had to request an increase to my credit limit from CareCredit, they were very understanding and approved it right away.
That's good to know. I may ask for an increase anyway as I'll need it for Gable's meds and testing, plus Doree will need another checkup in six months. Thanks, Lori~
I can't believe that next week Gable will have been on the Vetoryl for three months already! His hot spots have cleared up and his fur looks great. I think he's only got a couple of more of the Apoquel. He's sleeping so much better, although the other night I don't know what he was dreaming about, but he howled like a wolf and woke us all up around 2:30 or 3:00. I have never heard him do that! He's losing weight, I think he was 67.4 the last time, and looks fantastic; no more big belly where I was sure something was growing. He's playing again; jumping up on the furniture; and just seems so much better. I had forgotten how much fun he used to be!
It is so opposite how things went with Lena. I wish I had done better with her, or just not done anything at all and let her live out her last days without all of this. Gable still gobbles up whatever I put the pill in; she started getting very suspicious of whatever I tried to hide it in...almost like she knew, and didn't want it. Obviously, I am having some Lena days...2 1/2 years on Sunday.
Man, almost 3 months that Gable has been on Vetoryl, time sure does fly by! And I am happy to hear that he is doing so well!!! I bet the wolf howling got your attention! Would love to know what they are dreaming about, ain't!!
I am sorry that you're having Lena days, it is so hard not to beat yourself up, trust me I know. We just have to find some comfort in knowing that we loved them deeply and still do, and that we did try our best, that's all we can do, try our very best, and we did that. Sending you tons of comforting and loving hugs.
Thinking of you especially today, Joan, and remembering your sweet angel Lena right alongside you. I’m thrilled that Gable is doing so good! And I surely wish with all my heart that Lena could have been saved, as well. I honestly don’t think that anything you did with Lena was wrong; I honestly think it was her heart that took her, and not the Cushing’s per se. So you were trying your best to treat the Cushing’s with her, just like now with Gable. I know that writing this doesn’t change how you feel. Nothing that anybody says changes how much I wish things had been different with my Barkis. But we did the best we knew how to do for them. If love could have saved them, they’d both be with us right now, that is for certain. We’ll love them forever. So I’m sending you big hugs today. Big hugs of celebration for Gable, and big hugs of comfort for your loss of Lena. And you know, Lena really gets a lot of credit for saving her brother, because the things she taught you have helped you to help him. Her own tired little body could not live on, but she gifted her brother with a much brighter future. What a special angel, indeed...
Took Gabe for a pre-pill test this morning. I lowered his vetoryl from 40mg to 30mg a couple of weeks ago. My vet had wanted to lower it at the last test, but he was still drinking a lot so I left it. But I wanted to see what his cortisol level would be at the 30mg and decided to try. I have noticed an increase in his drinking and he put on a few pounds (70.7lbs today) so it will be interesting to see. I'm not sure how accurate this test will be as he was extremely stressed this morning. Instead of one of the girls taking him back, there was some guy I never saw before and he didn't know what an escape artist Gable is. He escaped from them twice and came running to the waiting room nearly knocking me over both times. Thank God no one was coming in or out at the time or he would have run for the hills! Then they had to drag him back there with me right beside him.
I will probably put him back on the extra 10 no matter what the test shows unless it's way low...which I doubt it will be.
Awww, poor Gabe, sure wish there was a way that is less stressful for our precious pups. :( Are his hot spots still cleared up? And how is Doree doing?
Yes, hot spots are gone, Lori.
I had to take Doree to the ER this evening. All of a sudden she came to us with her left front leg up in the air. She had just eaten and I was sitting on the deck with my husband. No idea what happened; she wasn't crying and we weren't even sure where she came from...in the house? from the garden?
After three hours there, they think she might have IVDD. They gave us Tramadol 50mg, 1/4 2-3 times daily and Gabapentin 50mg, 0.6ml 3 times daily. Why two different painkillers?
Of course by the time we left she was putting her foot down. They recommended no jumping, climbing, running, no stairs...we got home and I put her on her chair and the next thing I knew she had gone down the pet stairs I had been using for her for years (I originally bought them for Lena, but she would never use them). There's no way we can keep her from all of that unless we crate her and she will hate that, especially since we are both gone all day. She wanted to eat when we got home and is now sleeping it all off. They also said she should get an MRI (only $2500!). I'm pretty sure something like this has happened before. I will probably take her to our vet tomorrow or Tuesday and see what Plunkett says.
The last time I was at that ER was with Lena...that was the last time I saw her alive and where I picked up her sweet little body. I have not stopped crying...
Oh Joan,
I am so sorry, it must of been so hard to have to of walked through those ER doors :( Sending huge comforting and loving hugs.
Tramadol is an opiate style medication and is used to treat a wide variety of pain since it's binds to the mu-opioid receptor that controls the perception of pain in general. Gabapentin is usually prescribed for nerve pain, so I figure they are having Doree take both as to try to cover all bases for pain. Hoping Doree feels better soon.
Sending more (((hugs)))
Oh, thanks Lori. It was awful. When they asked if I'd ever been there before, I could barely get a "yes" out. After they took her in the back, I had to go sit outside to try to get my emotions under control. I have a splitting headache today from crying myself to sleep.
Oh yes, he did say that the disc problem might be affecting the nerve that runs down her leg. I forgot about that. Today she seems fine, no limping, no leg up. Dr. Plunkett hasn't seen the fax they sent yet (he's in surgery), but I am pretty sure she has had this problem with her neck before and the tramadol helps. She's so small, but continues to jump even though she has a knee problem and something in her spine. I have the pet steps every place where she can jump off, so she'll use those now. Hopefully, she just hurt it jumping and it's not cancer, or IVDD. My youngest grandson was over and he has a terrible habit of grabbing the little dogs around the neck, no matter how many times I've told him not to do it. So I hope he didn't do it...my husband would kill him! Doree is his even though I am the one who feeds, cleans up after, takes to the vet, etc. She was so good. Just sat quietly in my lap watching everything.
Gable's resting cortisol is 2.2 / ref range: 1.0 - 5.0
Not sure now if I should go back to the extra 10mg or leave him at 30mg. I'll have to monitor the water intake better, I think.
Awwww Joan, I’m so sorry about your scare with Doree, and the pain of returning to the ER. A really rough evening, all the way around :-((((((. But you did what you needed to in order to keep Doree safe, and I’m sending you big hugs for pushing through the sorrow in order to tend to her. Good job, mom!
As far as Gable, yes, I think you’ll want to try to assess his symptom profile as accurately as possible. If you revisit Dechra’s pre-pill monitoring chart, you’ll see that a cortisol level between 1.5 and 5.0 is either OK or not OK, depending upon symptom resolution. At 2.2, a dosing increase could be considered if symptoms are not adequately controlled.
However, having said that, it looks as though his pre-pill level has gone down from the last monitoring test (I think it was over 4?), and that’s even while presumably more stressed than before. So if it was me, I think I’d leave it at the 30 mg. for now, and try to check his actual water consumption more closely, if possible. And, of course, watch for any other symptom rebound.
Marianne
Thanks, Marianne, that's what I think I will do. Leave it for now and watch.
I agree with leaving it at 30 mg, and if it looks like he may be drinking/urinating more than I would recommend having an urine culture done to rule out an UTI before increasing the total Vetoryl dose.
Sending more hugs, Lori
Thanks, Lori....leaving at 30 will also be less expensive.