Pat: That is so frustrating, but you handled it beautifully. Peety is so lucky to have you. Your old vet will be wonderful. Love, JoAnne
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Pat: That is so frustrating, but you handled it beautifully. Peety is so lucky to have you. Your old vet will be wonderful. Love, JoAnne
Checking in to see how things went today! Hoping for some good news. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
I'm joining Sharlene in her quest for good news. :)I hope the vet is awesome! Peety needs a fresh perspective and so do you!:rolleyes::p
Hugs,
Kathy
Sending hugs and well wishes to you and Peety, hope vet goes well..
Good news and bad news. I didn't see the Dr. today. I called today to ask if it was a good idea for me to see another Dr. when I wanted Dr. Morgan to be the primary Dr. They told me probably best to wait for Dr. Morgan. She will be back Tuesday, so we have an appt then. She owns this Animal Hospital. So I am happy to start at the top. Yes, another delay, but it's good. I mean I'm good with it. Just worried that you guys are gonna stop following this thread because it doesn't go anywhere. AWWWWWWWWWWWW, but it will, I promise. Peety is good right now and I know this is a good thing. I'm happy, and my best bud is the one this is all about so it's a good thing.
Pat Peety's #1 fan
Hey,
I have not posted but have been following and there is no way we could stop following your cutie pie.
I am glad you have some good news and Peety is doing good.
Terry
Good lord. No way. We don't stop following threads around this joint. Lol. We're in it for the long haul ya know.
If you are good with waiting for Dr. Morgan to get back then so are we. Whether you post all the time or just when you want we'll be here. A new post will bump your thread to the 1st page no matter how long it is between post. Just so you know and won't worry. For me it will sende an email since I subscribe.
See nothing to worry about. Plus I'll big you anyway. Hahahaha
Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin.
Argh iPhone typing is baaaaad!
you guys are the best....:D:D This is always a nice place to come to... Thanks for making it that way...Pat
Awww thanks. We like you being here too. :) Sort of works out for all of us. haha
Sharlene and the muffin head
We had a good visit with Dr. Morgan. She loved Peety but she is stumped by his skin condition. She said she had never seen it. Calcium yes, but what he has now is not typical Calcinosis Cutis. She does not think he has cushings. 2nd Dr. to say that. Even seeing the report. She said yes, values elevated some but no symptoms of a Cush pup. She hasn't ruled it out. She is going to make some calls tomorrow and do some research. She said she would call me when she has something. She said everything I was doing was all good. She was surprised at how happy he was. He doesn't show any signs of distress even with his skin being so bad. It doesn't itch him. So all of this is atypical. But I am confident she will get to the bottom of this. Told her about the IM Dr and the Derm Dr. And that I was sorry that I had not come to her in the beginning. I know now, I will never go anywhere else. She's a real gem. So we will see. For now he is doing good and he is happy, so guess what?, that makes me real happy.:D:D:D
When our babies are happy we are happy!;):) I'm glad you found a vet for Peety that you really like. It is interesting that the vet doesn't think Peety has Cushing's. What does she think it is, or is that why she's doing research? There has to be something that can be done about that rash, but I guess they have to determine what it is first. Could it be a severe allergic reaction to something?:confused:
Hugs to you both,
Kathy
Hi Pat, so glad you had a good meeting with Dr. Morgan. Did you mention the black skin disease that we found on the net?
Quote:
Find a veterinarian who is familiar with black skin disease, and has experience with diagnosis and treatment. It takes an experienced veterinarian to diagnose this disease, as black skin disease can masquerade as Cushing's Syndrome
It's easy to see how some doctors might automatically go to cushings if this is what it is. I think it is something for Dr. Morgan to research at least.Quote:
Black skin disease, also called alopecia X and pseudo-Cushing's Syndrome, usually appears when a dog is between one and five years old, and causes severe hair loss, hyperpigmentation or darkening of the skin, and occasionally a foul odor.
That Peety is happy is the most important part of all of this. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
We talked about black skin disease. She will look into that as well. She wants to find out if there is something going on internally that is causing this. It may not be Cushing's. But it may be something else. She said her Cushing pups, did present Cushing symptoms. He does not have any symptoms associated with Cushing's. I refuse to believe that Peety has something that no one has ever seen or treated. It's baffling for sure, but there is an answer and I am determined to find it. And I know Dr. Morgan will help me do that. So for now, my lil guy is happy and when I see how excited he gets when we play ball in the backyard, I know he isn't pretending to feel good. He does and I love that. He makes my day and I am determined to make all of his happy and healthy.
Peety's#1 fan
Hey Pat, you go girl, I'm sure you will find out about Peety's condition, I love your determination, its inspiring....so glad to hear that Peety is happy!!!
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I wish it were simple. But it's not. My lil guy has a problem that so far is a mystery at best, but it is not a deal breaker. We don't stop looking just because we haven't found an answer yet. Hey, we're just getting started. :D:D:D
Peety's #1 fan
HI Pat and Peety! Your Dr Mogan sounds the bomb!! Yay I like how she is off researching what is best for your boy! Hoping she gets the answers real soon! Sounds like he is quite comfy though, that is all due to his Mom's diligence, your the bomb as well :) :)
Hi Pat,
I'm just curious as to whether Dr. Morgan has discussed Peety's abnormal kidney values with you in any detail yet? If they are being caused by Cushing's, then we could expect to see improvement once the Cushing's itself was treated. But if Cushing's ends up being taken off the table, then I would think you'd want to pursue some additional diagnostics regarding those kidney abnormalities. Just wanted to mention it again so that it doesn't fall by the wayside.
Also, I am again wondering why another vet seems to be dismissing the derm vet's actual biopsy result confirming the Calcinosis Cutis. Does Dr. Morgan think the biopsy was improperly analyzed? Or does she agree that it may be CC, but just not caused by Cushing's (although uncommon, there can be causes other than Cushing's/steroids)? Overall, I am confused about Dr. Morgan saying that it is "calcium," but not necessarily CC...
Marianne
Thanks for all the comments. The skin has changed since the biopsy was done. At that time it was definitely calcium pushed through the skin. It looked like lil warts and he was itchy all the time. Now it is black and very hard. Cannot penetrate it. He has 2 places, one on his side and the other on his back, by his tail. And the bald spots are also going away. His hair is coming back and it is even popping through the hard black skin. Which I still believe if it is not somewhat healthy underneath it would not have hair follicles that are growing. It's hard to explain. Dr Morgan hasn't seen this, in her experience CC is just calcium deposits on the outside of the skin.
I'm not sure what is going on with the kidneys. I have seen 3 Dr's and not one has reacted to that. Maybe because the Cushing's has always managed to be the topic of concern. But I will address this with her and see if she wants to do her own blood work to see where we are right now. I certainly don't want his health jeopardized because we didn't address all the issues presented with the blood work. I've learned to ask a lot of questions of these Dr's. Somehow I think they would rather you just nod your head in agreement to anything they say. But I can't do that. And Dr. Morgan's approach is to get the answers and I believe she will.
Thanks so much for this additional info. Now I understand much better why so many questions remain about Peety's skin. I've got my fingers crossed that you'll soon get some answers!
Marianne
Everyday for the past 6 months and I have watched his skin go from horrible to absolutely unexplainable. Today my brother came by and asked how he was doing. When I was trying to explain what it looked like, he said he looks like he's turning into a soft-shelled turtle :eek::eek::eek:. I said that is a great way to explain it. Except not soft in any way. Maybe a hard-shelled turtle :D:D:D. I have read that some CC can be operated on. Maybe that is what they meant. Before I couldn't imagine how they could remove CC, but if it is contained maybe it can be removed. Good question for my next discussion with Dr. Morgan. I will try to post some new pictures and see if I can get a picture that shows up well. Actually I am happy to see his skin is showing signs of improvement in other areas. The black skin on his stomach (not hard, just black) is gone and it was pretty bad. So maybe the vitamins or the brewers yeast have helped it. Maybe the coconut oil, or the Manuka honey, or the salt water. I don't care that I can't pin that down, I am just happy to see these improvements. He is wearing his cone less every day, because his skin has settled down. It's just ugly, but ugly apparently doesn't itch anymore. So maybe internally things have changed too.
Well, I'm just rambling, but some things have improved and I have to be thankful for every lil improvement. He is still my beautiful lil buddy. It's funny, Peety has always loved:):) backrubs. And now even with this crazy stuff going on he still loves his back rubbed. He is absolutely in another world when I do it. I can't rub his whole back, mostly just his sides and he is just in heaven. He makes me laugh he is so funny. So there are positive things that I see and that is my daily encouragement.
Thanks for all of your concern and support. This continues to be a learning experience. Hugs to all of you.
Pat Peety's #1 fan
Dr Morgan called. She said she talked to someone at Auburn University today. She said he told her he had a dog right now that looked like a soft shelled turtle. That is too funny. That just today that reference was made. Unbelievable. So someone does get it. Finally, progress. Anyway, she wants to rule out the effect of the steroids on his system. He was on steroids early part of the year. So I am getting those records faxed over to her today and she will review everything that has been done and it will give her a better idea of what has transpired over the past 6 months. Also we are going to redo the Cushing's test. She said she wasn't overly concerned about the kidneys, she saw the levels were elevated, but said there were a couple of reasons that could have shown up and she didn't spend a lot of time on that. So another blood test will answer a lot of questions. She said it was possible that he was not Cushinoid and his skin could get better on it's on. She is still a little baffled that he has no symptoms. I knew Dr. Morgan would jump right on this. I knew I wouldn't be disappointed. So step one, new Dr., step 2 new tests, step 3, answers. Hopefully.:D:D:D I am already encouraged in one visit with her. Boy, how much time has been wasted over the past few months. It's nice to finally have someone react appropriately to this situation. Instead of just scratching their head. My lil buddy is in good hands now.:D:D
I think it's great that she's starting again at the beginning, and especially that she is reviewing Peety's earlier steroid use. It's funny, but I was thinking earlier this morning that I wanted to go back and re-read your thread in that regard, too. When I wrote that part about CC most often being related to Cushing's or steroid use, I was reminded that Peety had indeed had prednisone treatment earlier in the year.
I'm also pleased that Dr. Morgan consulted with Auburn. I really think they are an outstanding vet school and I know they have researchers on staff that are very familiar with Cushing's. So let's see what we find out this time around. ;)
Marianne
It looks like you're finally going to be able to get the help you need. That is awesome!:D
Hugs,
Kathy
Yay, so glad to hear that Dr. Morgan is really going to town trying to figure this out!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Hi! Any news on Peety from Dr Morgan, hoping some progress is being made and he is still feeling good :D Every time I have honey on my toast I think of Peety!! :D
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm...date=&pageID=2
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm...date=&pageID=4
There are so many articles on DVM360 regarding dematology issues. They also give case studies that are interesting and we can gain insight from.
I was looking back to find an article I found that also gave other causes for calcinosis cutis but have not come across it yet. I'll keep looking. What can happen is they may start with cc but then develop pruitis on top of the cc so the cc becomes an underlying condition.
I do remember one case study where the dog's skin was very troublesome to the dog and they gave him whirpool treatments in Betadine Iodine mixed with water. But I think you said your pup is not itchy or painful, right?
I am hoping Dr. Morgan will come across something as maybe it is not calcinosis cutis.
I hope you were able to get some answers soon :) Have they figured out exactly what it is yet? Come on docs, let's get this solved!;) big hugs,
Kathy
Is there a sign up sheet for giving Peety back rubs? I'm in, I will be over shortly!!!! Praying the vet helps you soon, sending hugs too!!
Hi everyone, We had a delay because the other Vet did not get the records faxed over until yesterday. Dr Morgan called today, we are going to do more blood work on Monday. She wants to look at the liver and kidney values again to see what is going on there. She thinks he is atypical for Cushing's. No symptoms but the skin issues. The Dr. at Auburn said even if this was related to the predisone it could take a year for his skin to get back to normal. Otherwise he is good, Happy and playing. Our routine is the same. He loves his bath now. He volunteers to get in the shower now. One day, I was calling him to come get in the shower, I called and called and I turned around and he was already right behind me in the shower. He looked at me like "WHAT":D:D:D He's my sweet boy and we have a lot of fun playing ball and taking long walks. Yes, he would love more back rubs, he would be so spoiled rotten, :):) oops, too late, he already is.
Hope all lil fur bundles are happy today and all is well. Big hugs to all of you..
Peety's #1 fan
Awww Peety is just adorable! I can't believe he loves his showers! Wish I could get molly to think they are great. LOL
Well, now that Dr. Morgan has the file and test results, she can get a better idea of where to go next. So that is really good.
As long as Peety is so happy and playing ball and just having a great time, then it's okay and I'm sure that they'll eventually get to the bottom of this.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
We can all learn a lesson from Peety. Still playing, still walking, he doesn't let anything get him down. Go Peety!! Great job mom!!
Hugs,
Kathy
I have a question. What is "atypical" Cushing's as compared to Cushings? Dr. Morgan mentioned atypical but also said he has no symptoms except the skin issue. I thought she meant it wasn't Cushing's but had some characteristics. She keeps saying she does not think he is cushinoid.:confused::confused: I read about atypical and apparently the symptoms are excessive drinking, peeing, eating, muscle weakness etc. I thought that was for Cushing's. Peety has none of that. I'm confused. Someone share their knowledge, please. :confused: :confused: :confused:
Atypical Cushing's involves elevations in one or more of the intermediate, or sometimes called sex, hormones - Estradiol, Androstenedione, 17-Hydroxyprogesterone, Progesterone and Aldosterone. In Atypical, the cortisol is NORMAL. If the cortisol is elevated, even along with elevation in any of these five hormones, the pup is considered to have true, or conventional, Cushing's, not Atypical. The key to distinguishing between the two is the cortisol.
The signs for Atypical can be the same as those for conventional Cushing's - only the labs can tell if it is cortisol or the intermediates at play. The only place I know of that tests for Atypical is the University of Tennessee in Knoxville. If the pup has not had lab work done at UTK, the diagnosis of Atypical cannot be made. The test at UTK is basically an expanded ACTH - it tests for the cortisol as well as these five intermediate hormones. UTK calls this test a "full adrenal panel".
Atypical is treated initially with melatonin and lignans for at least four months as it take that long for the treatment to work. The melatonin and lignans can address all the intermediate hormones that are produced in the adrenal glands, even the Estradiol which can be produced outside the adrenals. If the melatonin and lignans do not lower the intermediates enough, then Lysodren is added to mix as maintenance only (given 2-4 times a week) - there is no loading phase with Atypical. Lysodren works only on the adrenal glands themselves and cannot reach Estradiol if it is produced outside the adrenals so the combination of the lignans, melatonin, and Lyso is required if the lignans and melatonin don't work well enough alone.
Hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
Thank you Leslie for that great text book explanation. I definitely came to the right place for answers. Wow, you really know a lot about this subject. I guess I should just wait and see. I believe Dr. Morgan will get the answers. We'll start with tomorrows blood work and go from there.
Thanks again for the info.
Hugs
Peety's#1 fan
Blood work showed nothing alarming. She said the liver values were normal and the white cell count was also normal. She wants to do another blood test in a month to look at his kidney and thyroid. She didn't think anything needed immediate attention. She still believes his skin is a result of the prednisone and should get better over time. She said to watch for excessive drinking and peeing and weight loss. Otherwise he is good and I am confident that his skin will start showing signs of improvement. He's still beautiful to me. I need to read back in the posts, because someone mentioned something about a medicine they got for the skin. I will do that and get with her for a script. Maybe something that will help. Anyway, I will get a copy of the test and post in a couple of days.
Hope all is well and everyone has a nice 4th. Peety doesn't get to bothered anymore with the firecrackers, cause his hearing is not so good :(:( So I don't have to worry about that any more. :):)
Pat Peety's #1 fan.
Hi Pat
Some good news for Peety. Sounds like you are happy with Dr Morgan.
I used a topical steroid spray called cortavance but am not sure that would be appropriate for him. I think DMSO is the other thing sometimes used but that honks of garlic apparently :eek:
Pleased to hear he is doing well despite the skin issues
Big hug to you and sticky kisses to the little man
Mel
Xxxxx
Hi Pat -
I just posted this on another thread so figured I would copy here as well as it may apply:
Our English Bulldog Millie was just recently diagnosed with Cushings and she has a horrific case of CC…to the point where her dermatologist awarded her “Worst Case she has ever seen Award”…woo-hoo go Millie! I can certainly sympathize with you as the CC can be very aggressive and extremely difficult to manage. It starts as open, oozing sores, then scabs over a blackish color and then when scab falls off, there seems to be hardened pink skin below (her trunk kind of looks as if she is a soft shelled turtle). My little girl started with two spots that kind of opened and seeped, and within two weeks it was on her face, neck and down her trunk (8-12 inches wide). IT WAS AWFUL and I know you probably feel helpless as it spreads, but I continue to get feedback that sometimes it just gets worse until it gets better…patience is not one of my strong suits! We started her on Trilostane on 6/29, and I swear I stare at her skin hourly to see if any improvement…but if there is, it is SLOW! Seems like it is not progressing as fast, but then again this skin disease has taken over 1/3 of her body already.
When contacting my Dermatologist I asked her about the possibility of using Sudocrem or Manuka honey (as recommended by others). She asked me to stay the course and said no to the Sudocrem (I think her sores were more open than the cushpups mom that used this with success) and said honey did cross her mind, but given the extent of the problem, thought it would be an unbelievable mess – which I probably can concur with – although it would smell a heck of a lot better than the rotten garlic smell of DMSO…I will never get garlic on pizza again! When I say stay the course, she is a little too difficult to bathe right now and makes her so uncomfortable, so we are using an antibacterial mousse (once a day on all lesions: face, neck, trunk) – It is DUOXA Chlorhexidine + Climbazole Mousse with phytoshingosine. She is not thrilled when this goes on her face cheeks and I feel it may be hurting her. She also gave us Comfort Spray by Animal Pharmaceuticals which she recommended spraying on face 2-3 per day. Millie will have nothing to do with a spray bottle coming at her face, so she recommended soaking a paper towel and dabbing. Millie seems to be okay with this…
Hope this helps with Dear Peety!
xoxox,
Kerry (Millie's Mama)
Oh yea, so glad that Peety's liver values and others look good. This is excellent news.
I think what you are thinking of is the ketochlor that Addy and someone else is using with success. Speak with Dr. Morgan about it and then get instructions for use she thinks it might help.
Well, you know prednisone can cause different things in different dogs. In some they end up losing hair and getting red and scaly. (my golden had this occur from prednisone) Peety maybe just had to be his own dog and go with the black crust. I hope that is what it is actually because if so, then it should eventually clear and he'll get his coat back. Not that I think he probably cares one way or another as long as he can run around and play with you. Happiest little guy.
Have a wonderful 4th!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Hi Kerry, I am so sorry you are dealing with this too, but I am so happy somebody else can relate to how bad it is. You described it pretty well. Dr Morgan said the Dr. at Auburn said a dog he was treating looked like a soft shelled turtle.:eek::eek::eek: It's crazy isn't it, but it's true. Peety's has finally stopped evolving. His back has 2 places, one on his side and the other on his rump. Both are hard black masses. They don't do anything. They don't itch, or ooze, there just there. I bath him every other day in Hibiclens (a surgical wash). I am using Manuka honey, but it is messy. I put it on and then wrap him up really good so it doesn't ooze out. I believe in it, but think it's gonna take a long time for anything to penetrate that black elephant skin. I also use coconut oil. His hair is actually growing in the middle of the black mass. Crazy but I'm thinking eventually the hair will win out. The hair there is getting thicker. He had a lot of bald spots, but those have also filled back in. His skin on his belly is black, but no sores. Nothing on his face or ears. He wears a cone and a t-shirt, but is wearing the cone less and less. Maybe about half the time now. He use to scratch a lot and I think I am just afraid that he might do it again. Although now he doesn't itch, but he just licks his feet sometimes, like dogs do. But better safe than sorry. My Derm Dr. gave me DMSO, but too toxic to use. Peety has not had anything open in a long time. When he did I used Neosporin.
Dr. Morgan told me she had never seen anything like this either. Wish I could say that. His started with a tiny sore on his neck, that was 6 months ago today. We had sores, at first, his legs were raw, where his hair fell out and it was horrible. He wouldn't let me touch them even to doctor them. :(:(. I put lil pants on him so his legs wouldn't rub anything. Thank God we are past that. I think we are seeing the better side of this, still not good, but better, not itchy or sore anymore. Just ugly. Not him though, he's my beautiful boy. The disease is ugly. I have spent a lot of $$$$ and I think I have come up with the best ways of treating it on my own and from others on this forum.
If I find anything else that works I will let you know. Check out Peety's album to see if it looks the same as Millie's. And give Millie an extra big hug.
Hang in there, and maybe try not to look at it so much. I know how it is, I did the same thing, I just wanted to see something that looked like it was an improvement. Try the Hibiclens (drug store) you can wash with it without getting a full bath.
Take care,
Pat Peety's #1 fan