Mira, 7yr old Husky - Cushings ruled out; liver cancer (Mira has passed)

Hi Janis,

Just dropping in to say hi and that I hope you had a good day with both your girls.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Thanks, yes we are doing well here. Mira is responding to the meds and we are still at the low end of possibilities with that. Her liver is functioning, she breaths well, she is young and the rest of her organs are good. Who knows maybe shell make two months. I think for certian she will have several good days right now. I know other people need you too. I'll be sure to let you know when there is a change. And I'll be sure to check in incase someone posts here. I'm more greatful then I can say!

Oh would you please change the thread title? We are not doing chemo. I won't put her or us thru it.

Thanks for the update. I will change the thread title.

Meanwhile please know that alot of us are reading and sending our best wishes every day even if we aren't posting. Hugs to dear Mira. Kim

Enjoy every minute with Mira and spoil her rotten...I know I would :)

She panted like a maniac all day today. Actually she kept waking me up panting even before that.. Panting pretty hard too. It's scary. Was up to 156 breaths per minute and shallow. It's 40 now. I don't think we'll walk today. She ate well enough though.

Kira is acting oddly. It could be sadness or maybe she's tired. Thats what it looks like. Normally anytime I go into the kitchen she comes right in behind me looking all hopeful. Now she doesnt bother to even get up! I'm worried about her. I haven't seen those bright eyes in days. Is she upset that Mira is getting so much attention? Is she upset that I put her outside when Mira eats? Does she know something is wrong with Mira? Or god forbid is it Cushings kicking in? Or worse?

Sorry I was going to try to be brave today but it didn't work...

Mornin' Janis,

Thanks for the update and glad to hear that Mira is still eating some and finding some joy in her life. :)

Last Dec. we had a senior baby who had been ill for some time with something the vets couldn't really name or get a handle on. She would get better then get worse again. She woke up one weekend morning and we knew that was all she had to give. Unfortunately, we couldn't get her to the vet for the next 2 days due to the Holidays so we devoted that time to our Ruby Dooby Doo. She got to eat anything she wanted, as much as she wanted, whenever she wanted; family came to visit with her and give her lovin' and treats; when we moved to another room, she was carried in there with us if she couldn't make it on her own so she was never by herself; she loved being brushed and her coat was shining at the end of those two days. Ruby left us knowing she was so very much loved. Those were hard days for us humans who loved her but it was nothing less than she deserved for all she had given. I, and many others here, can empathize with you in this time with Mira.

Please keep the posts coming on both your babies. As much as you may think others need us, we need to hear from you! ;):) In fact, I am apt to come looking for you if you don't check in fairly often! :eek::p Scary thought, huh? :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Hi sweetie,

If Mira and Kira are close or bonded, then it is possible that Kira is picking up on Mira's distress and the changes in Mira caused by her illness. Since you are with them both all the time, Kira could be picking up on your distress as well if she is bonded to you as I'm sure she is.

One of the signs of Cushing's is lethargy and a loss of interest in things, a kind of pulling away, at times. Squirt had started sleeping more and she would go "hide" under furniture to spend her time. She wouldn't show the connection and need to be with me like she used to as much. If cortisol is running wild in their systems it can throw off the circadian rhythms keeping them from resting well at nite. Cortisol is normally released in quantity in the early part of the day and as the day passed, that level drops allowing other chemicals to step up causing our bodies to relax and sleep. In Cushing's, the cortisol level doesn't drop like it normally would but is continually released, making a restful nite difficult to achieve.

Keep an eye on her, as I know you do like a hawk, and let us know if you see anything else that is disturbing for you.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Squirt's Mom

Hi sweetie,

If Mira and Kira are close or bonded, then it is possible that Kira is picking up on Mira's distress and the changes in Mira caused by her illness. Since you are with them both all the time, Kira could be picking up on your distress as well if she is bonded to you as I'm sure she is.

One of the signs of Cushing's is lethargy and a loss of interest in things, a kind of pulling away, at times. Squirt had started sleeping more and she would go "hide" under furniture to spend her time. She wouldn't show the connection and need to be with me like she used to as much. If cortisol is running wild in their systems it can throw off the circadian rhythms keeping them from resting well at nite. Cortisol is normally released in quantity in the early part of the day and as the day passed, that level drops allowing other chemicals to step up causing our bodies to relax and sleep. In Cushing's, the cortisol level doesn't drop like it normally would but is continually released, making a restful nite difficult to achieve.

Keep an eye on her, as I know you do like a hawk, and let us know if you see anything else that is disturbing for you.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

---

Can anything be done for this? The ACC doctor spoke of medication. Does it work?

You know Kira just had TTA surgery done on her knee 7 months ago. Recovery is like 12 to 18 weeks long. Kira got ALL my attention for that time and well beyond it. Me and Mira slept on the floor by her confinment area for weeks! At first I was just walking Kira everyday and poor Mira had to stay behind. They cut a piece of bone off and reposition it and you have to wait for the bone to grow back. The leg is very fragile at first. Then finally I was able to handle both dogs on a walk. That was not so long ago. Kira was used to getting most all of the attention until about a month ago. If that is what she is reactating to then it took her long enough. I'm thinking it's something else. The twinkle has gone out of her eyes! Kira doesn't go into hiding much. She and Mira trade off for the spot beside me. Her sudden lack of interest in food worries me. Normally she hops around all excited. And what about the rise in her blood test?

Mira is getting all the peanut butter with her zillion pills. Kira is taking pills too but.... I don't know. I can easily see the light going out in Kira's eyes when Mira is gone. Hell I can see mine doing the same thing. I need Kira's bright eyes so much. Those bright blue/brown eyes. Those eyes told me she would make it thru that long surgery. Both dogs are laying behind me right now. Kira's breathing is very noise. She barks and runs in her sleep all the time.

Take a look at the first clip in this video and you'll see what I mean about her bright eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Rfcg7n_iY

Janis

Took some pictures of Mira this morning. (Below is a direct link.) Somebody needs to pull her socks up! The one in the kitchen... does she look like she's in pain to you? There is one of Kira in there too.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=268

Nope - to me she looks tired/sleepy. Keep in mind she's on some meds that will make her this way. In the other shots I could not tell anything is wrong at all. She is really beautiful. So is Kira.

I took Mira for three really slow walks today. She looked around at anything, and everything. She isn't eating well today. So I tried stuffing a kong toy with peanut butter. That worked! Cheered her right up. Way more then the walks. She spent a good twenty minutes licking it out with gusto! I have it on video too. (In the mean time Kira gets heavier and heavier.) I haven't seen her on the pillow in weeks either. I think we'll have peanut butter every day...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frijole

Nope - to me she looks tired/sleepy. Keep in mind she's on some meds that will make her this way. In the other shots I could not tell anything is wrong at all. She is really beautiful. So is Kira.

---

You are right... I'm panicing. Poor thing, I'm going to kill her off with pain killers. Everything looks like pain to me. It's just the way she lays on her front leg. She looks all crunched up. I need to remember that about the meds. Bud mentioned that too when I complained that she didn't wag her tail when I asked if she wanted to go for a walk.

Pain:Sometimes when I touch her she growls at me. I'm calling that one pain. Right? Especally if she's not moving. Whining is a totaly unrelable clue. Huskies whine all the time. And pant.

Good Stuff:Following me. Eating. Laying belly up. Looking out the window. Crousing around the back yard. Fur standing on end when Kira gets to go for a walk and she doesn't! (She is so funny.) Showing interest in anything. Dreaming.

I'm going to try to video how she breaths sometimes. It's scary to watch.

Anyway, thank you for looking at the pictures. Your thoughts helped a lot. I never dreamed there was anything wrong with her either.

Getting Mira's Meds Right:
They tell me it's up to me to adjust Mira's pain meds to whats best for her and adjust the dosage accordingly. Normaly I don't see any pain from my dogs so I rarely give them any. (As I understand it, Cushing's meds are pretty much the same way. Owners just have to know. Imagine what a disaster I'll be at that!)

Does anyone know of, or ever used Neurontin (Gabapentin)? For pain.

I'm supost to figure out which one works better for Mira. Tramadol or Gabapentin. Or a combination of the two. I think the Gabapentin might work better for her, but I read that it can trigger seisures and is really hard on the liver. The doctors say the Tramadol would be better but it makes her so dopy. It makes her look like living is just no fun anymore.

Any thoughts or comments on that?

Hi Janis,

Yes, I would say the growling at being touched is quite possibly a pain response. The touch itself may not hurt but she may be anticipating a move that will cause her to hurt more, so she growls to tell you, "Don't you dare!" ;)

Loss of appetite, lack of interest, removing themselves from their family, constant licking at a certain area, as well as the panting and whining, can all be indicators of pain in our babies. Since they can't say, "Hey, that last pill has worn off and I need more", we have to decide that for them based on their behaviors. SUCKS, huh? I think if it were me, I would give a pain pill anytime she seemed uncomfortable...trying my best not to OD her yet provide her some relief. Start with the schedule the vets recommended - 1 every 6 hrs or whatever. If that didn't seem to be enough to control her pain, I would go to 1 every 5 hours, then every 4 hours and so on. Start keeping a little diary of when you give the pill so you have some idea of how much she is getting and how often.

Gabapentin...ahhhh, a wonder drug in my personal arsenal! I take it for neuropathy and it does wonders without making me dopey! In fact, it works when narcotics won't for this type pain. One of our members used Gabapentin for her baby, Nike, and said it helped a great deal. When our Ruby was fighting her last battle I gave it to her as well and it did help with her pain and discomfort a bit. Ruby's days were limited at the time I started her on it so I don't know what the long-term benefit would have been for her. However, Nike was on it for quite some time with positive results for her.

I don't see how the Gabapentin could hurt to try and see if it helps. You might find that one works better during the day and one better at nite, or using them both at nite and one during the day. The brand name for Gabapentin is Neurontin, BTW.

Something else you might look into is acupuncture. It won't cure her but it might help with her pain level. Just a thought!

Hugs and belly rubs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Help. She has been panting for what feels like hours. I gave her a "gab" about two hours ago. I gave her a Tramadol just now.

Ok I read your post now Leslie. Mira has oddly stopped panting. So you think I should try the "gab" instead if she starts up agian? Or stop panicing? Or give every hour until she stops or drops dead? She panted a lot like this yesterday too. It's not the same gentle pant she did have. You can here this one. She won't eat anything. She still has stopped. That last pill could not of taken effect yet.

Am I going to kill her with my panic? Fortunitly she doesn't seem effected by my crying. The doctor said she would have hot and cold spells.

I have been keeping a diary on her even before I found out it was cancer. Every half hour every five minutes. Ok she's panting again and moved away from me.

Hey sweetie,

How long ago did you give the gab? Have you given Tramadol since giving the gab?

Honey, there is only so much you are going to be able to do for her pain and you are working hard to help her. Give the meds time to kick in and maybe she will be able to rest a bit.

With the masses on the liver and chest, it is expected that she will pant a great deal. Her lungs are being compressed, making it harder for them to work properly. Accelerated breathing is going to make her heart work harder so you will see an increase in heart beats as well. All of this is to be expected so try not to let it get to you so badly. I know how hard that is to do. :(

Has she eaten anything today?

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Looking for a cooler spot. It's not warm where she was. Kiras in her spot now. Could the drugs be making her hot? Like the anti diarrhea med? She had one of those at 9am. Still panting. Cackling. Now stopped. It doesn't sound urgent. Maybe I'll try to go back to sleep.

She eat a ton yesterday but very little today

Yes, the meds could be making her feel warmer than usual causing her to seek out cool spots to lay. Tramadol is the human drug Ultram and I can't take it. It makes me vomit convulsively for hours after just one pill! :eek:

Glad to know she has eaten some today. Fluctuation in her appetite is not surprising either. The meds for one thing. So as long as she eats some, that's good.

Go get a nap...sweet dreams.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Squirt's Mom

Hey sweetie,

How long ago did you give the gab? Have you given Tramadol since giving the gab?

Honey, there is only so much you are going to be able to do for her pain and you are working hard to help her. Give the meds time to kick in and maybe she will be able to rest a bit.

With the masses on the liver and chest, it is expected that she will pant a great deal. Her lungs are being compressed, making it harder for them to work properly. Accelerated breathing is going to make her heart work harder so you will see an increase in heart beats as well. All of this is to be expected so try not to let it get to you so badly. I know how hard that is to do. :(

Has she eaten anything today?

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

---

All of that makes since. Likey this is how it will be maybe. Thank you. She's been quiet for about ten minutes the Tramadol must have kicked in. The Gab didnt work then? Or maybe the combination did? Or maybe the spell past? Pluse is 80 I think or that might be resperation it hard to tell her chest is bouncing so.

She doesn't look stressed. She isn't growling when I touch her now. Still not panting but she looks like she's going to. It's scary watching her chest. I know Pluse of eighty is ok. I try to sleep thank you

I'm drowning here, please.
Anyone....
I don't think I can...save myself.

Just song lyrics

I had to go out for a minute. When I got back the "Welcome Committee" was at the door waiting for me. <smile>

A welcoming committee is always a happy sight! :D

Sending warm thoughts and love from Nebraska! Hang in there - I know it is tough. Just love her. That's what she needs. Just love. xoxoxo Kim

So is asking to eat and then licking the bowl clean! Canned dog food mixed with chicken and chicken broth too. At least a cup and a half of that. I'm so proud of her. She was looking out the window too. Still panting off and on but much less often. Thank you so much for saving me today. The cancer doctor is supost to call me tomorrow and talk about the meds.

Hi There,
So glad Mira is eating and doing somewhat better---Yeah!!!!:)

Hang in there you are doing everything you can for her and she knows it because they have good senses; so take care of yourself also!! :)

Hi Janis,

How are your girls doing today? I hope they, and you, had a better day today after a good nites rest.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

I talked to the cancer doctor tonight. I actually fell out of bed when she called trying to get to the phone. Thank goodness Mira wasn't laying there at the time!

Anyway I had wanted to talk to her for days. She was real sweet and answered the zillion questions I had faxed her. I was concerned that Mira might suddenly not be able to breath and all this panting she was doing. She said the one lung could give out and I might not even know it. I told her Mira had not seemed distressed at all. She said to watch for pale gums. The panting hasn't gotten worse and it's mostly just intermitant. Huskys pant just naturally too. She said it's hard to pin point what panting means.

We talked about the pain meds. She said she liked the medication schedule I had put together which looks like this:

6pm. 1/2 pred 1 met 2 gab 1 tram 1 pep
11pm 1 tram 1 mirt
4am 1/2 pred 2 gab 1 tram 1 pep
9am 2 tram 1 met

I adjust this all the time usually adding more tram in-between.

But we desided to cut the first three tram doses down to 1/2 because I suspect she doesn't needed so much and I might be mistaking her sedation for depression or unhappiness or worse. It could what sets me into fits of crying because things seem so poor. Last night I had not given her any pain killers for 10 hours straight and she seemed plenty comfortable enough. It's all a crap shoot really.
She said I could cut back on the predizone now. But to me it seems like it helps the most. So she said it was fine if I left it as is or even increase it by 1/2 pill if I want but to talk to her if I want to do more than that.

She was really pleased that Mira likes her walks so much. Even though Mira seems to have a little pain afterwards she says keep doing it. A LOT!

She was also pleased with how much Mira is eating. I have desided to focus on the total amount she eats in one day rather then falling apart when she refuses to eat. At the end of the day she has done well. Mira has never been a big eater. The highlight of her day seems to be the peanut butter in the kong toy. She thought that was wonderful and i should keep doing that.

In summary Miras eating seems to tell us the biggest story. If breathing gets that bad or the liver gives out Mira will most likely stop eating. She had said before that 2 to 4 days of nothing good then it's time to go. But she said Miras current condition seems very good. It was nice to hear that from a cancer specalist.

You know I stopped in at a cancer forum and told them of Mira and right off the bat they are telling me to have pitty on Mira and let her go. I'm not going back there. Little Mira is pearing at me from over the coffee table right now. Her bright eyes tells me she doesn't have a clue. If she knows then she currently doesn't want to go. I make a sound and her eyes grow bigger. Peanut butter maybe? Yes Mira we can do that. And a walk soon too.

Janis, I am so glad that you had such a good talk with the cancer specialist!! It sounds as though she has given you a lot of good feedback, and I'm hoping it will allow you to breathe a little easier for the time being. All this has come up so quickly and has been such a horrible shock to have to deal with. But it sounds as though you're settling into a bit of a routine now. And that is giving both you and Mira some quality "time-out." I've got all fingers crossed that you'll continue to have a number of overall good days. Thanks so much for this report.

Ongoing hugs,
Marianne

Hi Janis,

I've been out of pocket all day and was so glad to read your update when I got back! :D It sounds like you and the cancer doc had a good, positive, productive chat that has helped you breath a little easier and that is wonderful. It also sounds like she agrees with me in that you are doing a fine job with Mira's care. ;)

That is a crying shame you were greeted in such a manner on the cancer group you checked out. They could have taken a bit more time to learn about you and Mira then perhaps they would have gained more understanding and compassion. The day may come when I myself tell you it is time to let her go but, if it does, every word will be said with love, anguish, tears, empathy, and heart-ache because your precious Mira has wormed her way into a special spot in my heart.

But, today I am very happy to know you are feeling better about her and that she is continuing enjoy her life. :D:D This is what counts! :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Enjoy the time with Mira as long as she is able to enjoy each and every day with you as well! Anyone who tells you differently, well, pay no mind!


Jeff & Angel Mandy

Thank you!

Kira goes to ACC's Cushings specialist today. I think they will do more tests. I know this was ment to also be a consolation appointment. I wish i was in a better frame of mind for this. Bud is going this time. He needs to understand what's happening with Kira. Hopefully my brother will have a chance to look at Kiras detailed records and give us an opinion.

Mira will be going with us. I'll likely have her checked out while we are there. She's been panting pretty heavy all day.

Janis, good luck with the appointments today. I'm glad Bud will be going along. It always helps to have "four ears" to take in all the information. Plus, you're right, it will be important for him to understand any further recommendations that come from the vets.

Please give both girls big hugs for me, OK?
Marianne

Hi Janis,

Let us know what the vet says today about Kira and Mira. Taking Bud with you is a great idea! It always helped me to have someone or something with me to help me remember what was said. I get so bumfuzzled at times it ain't funny! :rolleyes::p

You're doing a great job, Mom! Hang in there!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Will be praying for you and Milo.
Fight for as long as you can. Milo is.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

They are suggesting surgery for Kira. Any comments on that?

Mira..... Pale gums. Might be bleeding her liver. There running tests$$$$ for what I'm not sure. May need a transfusion. Might give her another day. Another week. Another week of what? Bud said do it. Bud who hates pending money.

They are both staying here for at least eight hours. More when we get home.