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Get her eyes tested too, just to make sure the vessels in the back are OK. Normal vet can do that. BP sounds good though.
You off to Budapest, love tripadvisor and always use it when planning a trip! I bet there are some cute little older style places with a ton of character to stay in!
I can't believe I missed this news on Molly!!! :eek: Our dogs have the same issue..limping, holding up paws! What the heck is it!!! :confused: I was also thinking maybe a shoulder strain?? When I massage it she doesn't seem bothered by it.
Wow, I feel like it's almost exactly what is going on with Trixie. Wish these dogs could talk!!!
How is Molly today? Any more limping? It's so worrisome. ugh. Why one thing after the next?? :confused:
I hope Molly's clears up and that she's feeling good and walking fine soon.
So..on the test results? A retest in a few weeks? For now everything is okay?
You're going to Budapest?? I was just reading the NYTimes travel section and they had the most beautiful photo of the bridges joining Buda to Pest...I would love to go someday. Trip Adviser is the best! I love seeing the user photos you can really get a truthful picture of a hotel...a great site for planning travel.
Barbara
Oh, poor Miss Molly - I think Hamish did something similar many years ago when he got a grass seed in his paw. There was nothing to see but he didn't want to put it on the ground so they gave me some cream to put on and he was fine within a few days.
I haven't been to Budapest, but have heard it's a beautiful city - enjoy!!
???Quote:
Originally Posted by Trixie
This gets me wondering about Husko too...as i was not present when father said he tripped and hurt his leg...he had tripped b4 and nothing happened...
He would hold it up, as if broken and refuse to touch the ground...but when massaged he stretched it...
Any thoughts?another Vetoryl side-effect?
:confused::confused::confused:
Molly is not on vetoryl so that rule's that out!
It is weird on the forum how there can be spate of similar problems, I hope the sore paw problem is banished soon!
Remember that with Cushings there is muscle wasting so I imagine that they can strain paws and other body parts more easily.
I am thinking it must have been a muscle strain at the time. She hasn't acted like it is bothering her at all since then. Hubs felt a bit of muscle spasm in the shoulder afterwards as we were massaging it. The neuro report said they checked all 4 legs and other than the luxating knee here legs are good and her back is good too now according to report so shouldn't be that.
Molly is cool with the steps up to window now but doesn't want to come back down.
Could just be some muscle strain as all these dogs are the go get'em gang. Weird that trixie has both front legs acting up though.
The other possibility is cortisol I suppose. For Molly she was just coming off what I swear was a cortisol high from that ACTH test. The dog had so much energy she was go go go. She is now back to normal and no more accidents in house. Which really makes it clear what it would be like if she had those levels constantly in her body.
I fell asleep and had this weird dream that there was a cheetah stalking Molly and I in some wasteland of a street and I had picked Molly up to protect her and then was kicking at the cheetah. Well I kicked for real too and whopped my calf a good one on the recliner. Might have a bruise tomorrow. I blame reading Cains thread and Patti's story of tipper right before I fell asleep!
I do have the report from the IMS but need to compare it to the older ultrasound report. I will give more feedback on that tomorrow. I have a headache tonight so not going to dive in or I know it will be worse.
Night all
Sharlene and Molly muffin
Eeek, stalking cheetahs!! Oh you poor thing ending up with a bruised leg, no wonder you have a headache with that stress Sharlene. Be looking out for your review of the report.
I have also just been reading reports, I emailed Flynn's old surgeon at the pet hospital to get his histology report on adrenalaectomy, I never had the proper one. He has kindly sent that to me, I wanted it to show the Auckland IMS after they noted that weird lymph node in the location of his previuos adrenalectomy on the last scan. Least I have it now, as it is a new IMS I am going to do a history again and send it up with my questions so he gets fair warning of what I will be asking!
So sorry you have a headache, Sharlene :o Reading post can't possibly help, so get some rest.
I had a really freaky dream the other night. It is obvious that I read too many posts and get to know all of you and your pups. We were all at a big stadium. All of us pet parents were in the stands and all of our dogs were loose on the grass area below. We were called one by one and had to go down to the field and do a memory match game with all the dogs. We had to connect the dogs with their parents. Naturally, since this was a dream Buddy was there too. He was chasing lizards all over the field, so he was easy to identify. I was summoned over the loudspeaker to appear on the field below. I thought it was my turn. A man in a referees uniform came out on the field carrying Rosie. He said that we had to leave and could not participate. When I asked why, he said that monkeys were not allowed on the field. That this activity was for dogs and their pet parents only. He said that Buddy could stay, but Rosie had to go. Everyone then started yelling from the bleachers. Let her stay, we know she's a monkey! That's when I woke up.
Don't you feel better about your dream now? Lol xxxxxx
Hi Sharlene,
Not that Jasper needs to be a joiner with any more issues, but here is part of what I posted on Barbara and Trixie's thread from a couple of days ago:
This happened a couple of weeks ago. WTH?? :eek: :rolleyes:Quote:
I know this will not surprise you, but a few weeks ago I had a scare with Jasper like that. I was in another room and actually heard him cry out, which he never does. I went running and he was holding up one of his front legs and wouldn't bear any weight. This is the first time he has ever done this, of course. I have no idea what he did but I nearly panicked. All I could think about was what now, and what if he tore something.
I checked it over real good, and it didn't seem painful to touch, and after about an hour he seemed much better and by that night pretty much normal. Still don't know what happened, but it scared the daylights out of me for sure. He and Shelby play rough quite a bit, and now since then I am so paranoid, I make them stop.
That is basically exactly the same as Molly. A cry and then no weight on foot. Then fine. Crazy isn't it! At least we are all in good company. :-)
Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin
Sharlene:
Could this possibly be some type of ligament in the front leg these babies are irritating? Tipper seems fine today. The only other thing I can think of is the hair between their pads. Tipper was limping one time off and on, and here the vet found hair between her pad that had formed a hard ball. Once it was out no limping!! So maybe Molly or Trixie could have that. It was up there deep into the crack between her pads. I could only hope it is this simple!! Blessings
Patti
sorry if i don't understand correctly ,but the muscle strain was better giving prednisone?Quote:
Originally Posted by molly muffin
Husko did not step on his left paw for a month...i am 100% sure tho it was not broken.
Hope you're feeling better!!!
How was Molly this morning? Any evidence of a limp or pain. Trixie was perfectly fine. I posted on a novel on my own thread about this. ;)
I hope Molly's doing fine today. Have you compared all your newest tests to your previous ones yet? Nothing like all those numbers to get the nerves going again right??? ;)
Barbara
Iraklis (pardon the hijack! :D), I don't think Sharlene has given Molly Pred. She is talking about the effect of the ACTH test on the cortisol level in the body. Cortisol is natural and is supposed to be present in our bodies. The ACTH test squeezes all the cortisol out of the adrenal glands and into the blood stream, giving some pups that "high" mentioned above.
Cortisol acts like a natural anti-inflammatory in the body so while the levels are higher we are apt to see less signs of inflammatory pain - which is why once treatment starts we start to see things like arthritis come out. ;)
Yes, exactly what Leslie said. :) I don't give molly any steroid/pred due to the already enlarged adrenal glands/liver, I wouldn't want to add to the mix if it was unnecessary.
She is acting just fine on the leg, only Sunday was there any real issue. The neurological report evaluated her legs and said they were good. In fact her neuro report is stunningly good. Yay!! :) She is bright eyed, alert, tail high over her back. Back seems good, legs good except for that one knee, so I'm going with it was a once off, landed wrong on the window seat.
I'll post the comparison when I get it done gang. :)
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin
I haven't done a comparison yet with the last ultrasound. I'm working today, so even though from home, it's been pretty busy. I know I need to and perhaps I am just procrastinating? Pretty sure of it actually. I'll dig both out tonight and do that.
Got it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirt's Mom
Another reason why i shouldn't have started Vetoryl (or at least lower dose even more) again in February...stupid idiotic me...:(:(:(
#threadjack-over#:o:o:o
Glad to hear Molly's leg is feeling better and nice report! awesome!
Pleased to hear that Miss Molly is doing well :DQuote:
Originally Posted by molly muffin
Okay, so lets get the UPC and urine stuff out of the way first:
Urine Protein 154mg
Urine Creatinine 16238umol
Urine Pr/Creat Ratio .8
Specific gravity 1.031
PH 7.0
color yellow and clear
culture - nothing
sharlene and molly muffin
Ultrasound comparions I'm posting the results from 2012 first followed by the 2014 results.
July 15, 2012
liver mildly enlarged, diffusely hyperechoic, and margins are rounded
gall bladder moderate amount of echogenic debris present
bile duct normal
stomach wall measures .25cm to .27cm
spleen normal
left kidney 4.86cm hyperechoic speckling in the cortex and mild decrease in corticomedullary definition
left adrenal gland .80cm and .68cm, mildly enlarged with the caudal pole larger than the cranial pole
urinary bladder wall mildly thickened at the apex .32cm to .43cm, lumen not fully distended
mucosa mildly hperechoic and irregular and two small calculi presnet .18cm and .24 cm
colon normal .14cm - .17cm
right kidney similar to left kidney 4.44 cm length
small non-obstructive calculi present .28cm
right adrenal gland .56cm and .74cm (.69cm and .60cm) and is upper reference of size to mildly enlarged
pancreas normal
small intestine normal .35cm
mesenteric lymph nodes mildly enlarged .33cm by 1.97cm
April 20, 2014
liver is enlarged and hyperchoic with rounded margins
gall bladder has mild echogenic debris, no obstruction
bile duct is normal
stomach is normal and wall measures .28cm
spleen is normal
left kidney measures 5.22cm mild loss of corticomedullary definitions, cortical speckling no obstructive mineralizations and renoliths .16cm by .39cm
left adrenal gland enlarged cranial pole .73cm and caudal pols has a nodule present measures 1.30cm by 1.26cm
urinary bladder wall appears mildly thickened but not fully distended
colon is normal wall measures .14cm
right kidney measures 4.70cm and is similar in appearance to the left, renolith .18cm
right adrenal gland mildly enlarged, .82cm and .93cm
pancreas is mildly mottled
small intestine is normal wall measures .22cm
lymph nodes are normal
Case summary, ultrasound demonstrated mild hepatomegaly with rounded margins and a diffusely hyperechoic echogenicity.
adrenal glands mildly enlarged and a nodule noted on left adrenal gland.
blood pressure measurement demonstrated mild hypertension.
urinalysis demonstrated concentrated urine and proteinuria
liver changes and adrenal gland enlargement could be supportive of hyperadrenocorticism.
Differential diagnoses based on ultrasound include pituitary dependent hyperadrenocorticism with asymmetrical hypertrophy of benign or malignant adrenal nodule (adenoma, functional adrenal tumour, phechromocytoma) or hypertrophy secondary to systemic disease (unlikely).
Previous LDDS normal. Could reflect false negative testing, atypical hyperadrenocorticism or possible that molly does not have hyperadrenocorticism.
If University of Tenn results is negative, liver biopsy may be warranted.
I was VERY sure she told me she thought benign on the adrenal nodule when speaking with her but she clearly writes malignant on the report, so I think I want some clarification on that. Still waiting on UTenn results to come back before any further discussions.
I admit, it is so hard, when molly is running around, playing, bright eyed to even think of a malignant tumor and it has me feeling a bit down every since I read the report last night. It still seems that they don't know what is going on with her, what is actually causing the high cortisol, nor what kind of tumor this is. Plus they seem to say if she does have cushings, she has both pituitary and an adrenal tumor. What the heck!!
I have to go to my other computer to do it, but I will post 3 jpegs of the latest ultrasound report. Hopefully readable as I had to convert from pdf. :)
hugs all
Sharlene and molly muffin
phechromocytoma
Have you looked into this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheochromocytoma
I noticed one of the symptoms is anxiety ,which could lead to excess cortisol i think
I was VERY sure she told me she thought benign on the adrenal nodule when speaking with her but she clearly writes malignant on the report, so I think I want some clarification on that. Still waiting on UTenn results to come back before any further discussions
hi sharlene, that sounds very confusing for you. i hope the other results from the university will put some light on this matter.
luckily molly feels fine!
Based on the other dogs that we've had on here with a pheo, Molly doesn't seem to be exhibit the sort of symptoms that might be seen with a pheo, so it isn't my first thought, but it also isn't impossible. No weight loss, no anxiety (that isn't storm related anyhow), glucose is fine, her BP is not overly high and I've seen no sign of bursts of high BP happening. So while neither I nor the IMS are ruling it out I'm not 100% on board the pheo option. Yet. Anything is possible and things change too. I was thinking non functional nodule. As I've never seen a dog with a secreting adrenal tumor pass the LDDS test. They can't suppress usually because it just secrets no matter what. However, that being said, I am thinking one option is that now that this nodule IS there, we'll have to redo that LDDS because it May if that tumor is secreting, no longer be a negative. If it is, then I'm back to thinking non functional, but we'll see. So many questions yet to be answered. I feel like a picture Leslie posted once, I don't know if I'm coming or going at this point.
Sharlene and molly muffin
ummm...MRI?
That would answer a lot of questions...
In my experience too...ultrasounds and vets doing them tend to give rise to more questions than answer them...and their conclusions are vague and sometimes misleading...Quote:
Originally Posted by flynnandian
Sharlene, I know exactly how you are feeling, you are describing my Snuggles, he has no outward pheo tumor symptoms, no weight gain, no bp spikes, no panting, etc etc so far and he was diagnosed with it back in October 2013. and he did test positive for Cushings back then, which pheos can do that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by molly muffin
I hope Molly does not have a pheo,
but I would suggest having either the plasma free blood test or the urine test to see if Molly does have a pheo, at least you will be able to know one way or the other. From what I have read both are fairly accurate.
and I agree too an MRI would give more info than the ultrasound as it did in my case with Snugs and Branny and it confirmed the urine test results which was positive for a pheo.
Thinking of you and Molly HUGS
Hey Sharlene, I don't know if it will make you feel better, but the original report references either a benign or malignant adrenal nodule. So I'm banking on "benign!"
Marianne
OMG you are right Marianne. I think I was upset when I saw malignant and somehow my brain blanked on the benign. So she did say, she thinks likely benign. whew that is a huge relief actually. Thank you, thank you for reading the report and catching that.
Now I feel like I can breath again.
I actually walked out of the house when I read that and got in the car and did some retail therapy before coming back home to finish typing.
Super Big hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin
Hi Sharlene
UPC comments: To me the protein is low in the UPC but the Cr is a little high, when Flynn has had results like that the ratio goes higher, I think it has a lot to do with his level of hydration at the time. I know this test is meant to take that into account, but I have noticed the fluctuations in the Cr can make it differ a lot. 2nd to last UPC was the best ever for him and the Cr was in the 1200 range, when it has been up in the 1600 range like Molly's is then I have found a higher ratio. I did not let him drink too much on the good one and he got a much better result. Molly's Sp gravity is good and great no sign of UTI.
US comments: I am glad Marianne put you right with the benign comment!! That must have made you feel much better, funny when we get info overload sometimes we focus on the bad bits! I am with you and not real confident of the pheo diagnosis. One thing I would want clarifying is can they differentiate where the adrenal nodule is situated ie if it is arising in the medulla of the gland it makes it more likely to be pheo. I am not convinced of the efficacy of the either the blood or urine testing for pheo's, they just do not have the numbers in the studies. Both his surgeon/IMS involved in the adrenalectomy said it is a dodgy due to that, plus there are no definite reference ranges for these tests in dogs. I also asked the new IMS about this and he said the same that there is hardly any blood/urine testing being done because of this. Humans yes, but it appears to me there is more research needed in this area for dogs and I hope in the future there are better tests so the veterinary specialists are more confident with their use. I would be interested to hear what you find out about this from your IMS. What made them suspect Flynn's was the ultrasound/CT and also his clinical symptoms ie hypertension. But pheo symptoms in dogs are often episodic and as you say Molly has not shown any of them. Most articles say that a definite diagnosis for pheo is only made on histology when it is removed, until then it can be speculation. I would be inclined in a non-symptomatic dog to rescan in 3 months and see what was happening. I would want to check if there were any signs of any spread if it was malignant eg get a CXR to check lungs, or if they decide to proceed to CT to get a better picture of adrenal mass then get the chest done at the same time which was what was done for Flynn. Hopefully you get the atypical results back soon and then can move on from there. In the meantime I am going to go for the adenoma too, they are more common afterall in our pups and Molly can just join Flynn on the monitoring programme as he also has one on his remaining adrenal and its not doing anything. Great no lumps in the liver!! But agree biopsy could give more info there. x
Sharlene:
For what it's worth I researched the tests available for pheos and I personally decided not to do one with Tipper because of all the false positives they can have. Then I would be crazy thinking my dog had a pheo when in fact she might not. When are they going to get clarification to you about the malignant part? It is hard to believe sometimes all that can be going on inside our babies, but it seems Molly is doing well according to the reports. I pray this is just an adenoma like they think about Tipper's. Blessings
Patti
I was scouring that report for the word "malignant"! I didn't see it either so let's just put that out of our minds, 'k? I'm banking on a benign, non-secreting nodule that is there simply to confuse us. Overall, it doesn't look that bad to me tho I would want the liver further investigated and if funds allowed, a closer look at the adrenals if they thought a MRI or CT would be beneficial.
Now, learn from me, Sharlene. Do not let this get you so balled up you stop taking care of yourself. Remember, YOU are the most important factor in all of this. ;)
Patti the research I founds says both the urine and plasma free blood tests have a high accuracy rate, ofc any type of urine or blood tests can give a false reading for one reason or another, can you please post the links to where you read these 2 particular tests have a high rate of false positives?Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengirl88
I will try to find them, it has been so long since I researched it I can't remember, but I am positive they said there were many false positives or I would have done it with tipper, and I even asked the vet and he concurred with that
They did chest xrays I think it was to check lungs as I mentioned breathing issues and they have come back clear, so I don't think that there is anything there.
The IMS said she would not do an MRI at this time (that might change who knows) as there is no guarantee that you spend $2000. and that it will show anything. (we were talking at the time about a pituitary tumor)
Okay, I think it is molly's paw not her leg, but I can't be certain. It happened again this morning but no yelping. She was in my closet while I was changing clothes, sniffing around and I looked over and she was laying down and not moving. When she Finally tried to get up, she held up her paw and wouldn't move for a bit, then tried to move and limped awful. I picked her up and massaged that paw and foot and then took her downstairs, as I knew she's have to go outside, put her down and she was right as rain and had a good walk. I went over that paw thoroughly and can't see a problem, toes are all movable with no snapping (as they would if one was hurt) Maybe a toenail?
I had to go to the office today, no choice, but came home this afternoon and took her out, she is walking not with a limp but a couple times a bit gimpy and then walked slow on her outside walk. Not sure what the problem is, but doesn't seem to be in the shoulder joint that I can tell. She just passed a neuro test on her legs with flying colors, so again, baffled. That seems to be the state molly always leaves me in.
Leslie it does say benign or malignant. I just missed the benign part first go around and you missed the malignant part. LOL They don't know in other words.
I can ask them about the test for pheo and her thoughts on it and report back what she says. (this will be After we get the UTenn results)
I'll ask about the exact location of the nodule Trish.
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin
Well with our four eyes we will eventually get it all! :p
Sharlene, glad Molly's lungs are clear, that's good to hear. It does sound like her paw though, did you look in between the toes? to see if anything is lodged in it a pebble or splinter or cut of some sort?
As for the pheo tests, my vet had confidence in the urine test we took but here is a good study on the plasma free test for pheo
this is the entire abstract:
Plasma-free metanephrine and free normetanephrine measurement for the diagnosis of pheochromocytoma in dogs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23311717
this just the conclusion
CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL IMPORTANCE:
Plasma fNMN concentration has excellent sensitivity and specificity for the diagnosis of pheochromocytoma in dogs, whereas fMN concentration has moderate sensitivity and excellent specificity. Measurement of plasma-free metanephrines provides an effective, noninvasive, means of identifying dogs with pheochromocytoma.
Sharlene....so glad Marianne found the benign word there! Now you can take a deep breath.
From what I read about this it certainly doesn't seem like Molly fits the mold for a pheo...or even from a nodule that is functioning. It says if its functioning the dogs are weak, listless, not hungry, lose weight and are very thirsty,....that doesn't sound like Molly! The Pheo symptoms really don't sound like Molly either--rapid heartbeat, high blood pressure, pacing, panting..you would certainly have noticed any of these symptoms.
I know how difficult it is when they can't figure out what's going on with Molly...maybe the U Tenn tests will finally settle the question? I bet anything this little nodule is benign!
The rest of the ultrasound all sounds pretty good, right?
Barbara
I thought it seemed like a pretty decent ultrasound for other areas, based on her being 11 years old now.
Nope, not panting, pacing, weight loss.
It does make me wonder about the sex hormones more now though. I am loath to do a biopsy of the liver as that can be invasive and bleed. I don't want that to occur.
Molly hasn't gone under anesthesia since she was spayed at a year old. That might freak me. LOL
I really want to thank all of you. I can do fairly good evaluations on any dog other than my own. ROFL.
Leslie, does it count as 6 eyes if I have my glasses on?????!!! We might need that extra set the way I'm going lately.
lol
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin
Oh we are in GOOD shape then 'cause we have EIGHT eyes! :p
I hope you get to the bottom of it Sharlene, I am sure it is making you anxious not knowing and hoping for the best possible outcome...benign