Tipper - adrenal tumor/breathing issues

Hi Patti, well that makes perfect sense then, with the opening of the blood vessels, but see if she continues to breath easier on it, because you never know, what thing is leading to another thing, when it comes to these oh so delicate systems. They are strong, yet, they seem delicate to me when something goes wrong in one.

Molly is exhausted tonight. We had a full house today, she managed to try to be in the kitchen every second she could, which wasn't easy, since she isn't allowed in the kitchen if someone is using a knife, she has to sit outside the cooking area and "stay" which she doesn't like. A couple times she sneaked in and I would block her with my foot, which after an hour, of repeatedly being blocked, she decided to attack. Well, as funny as it was seeing this little dog try to put her whole mouth around my shoe, that was just a no go, since we are being serious about this. (this is hubby's rule and he worries that what if someone dropped a knife and she was right under foot) Makes sense to me. So, had to put a stop to that little antic.

She went down the stairs the other day and did come up on her own. She wasn't happy and barked for a long time, but I couldn't go down and walk her up as I was on a conference call for work. She hasn't gone down since but will stand at the top of the stairs and watch if I am down there doing something to see if I am coming right back up or not. We'll get there. :) We can be stubborn too. LOL

Have a safe trip.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Patti, Praying that all goes well with Tipper's ultra sound. Hope she gets a good report.
Hope you are feeling better.
Hugs

Hoping and praying all goes will with you and Tipper today.

Patti hope all is going well with you and the lovely Tipper when you can, let us know :)

Hi Everyone:
I am one happy chick today. My baby is ok. The tumor is still the same size and has not grown at all. I cried all the way home I am so relieved. I have prayed on this for weeks now, and God gave Tipper a pass. I am ever so thankful. In the waiting room I sat with my rosary praying for Tipper and Woody. Next to me on each side was a dog with Cushings if you can believe it!!! This disease is ridiculous. I gave them the website address here and offered them some support. I hope they join us and get some much needed help. On the way there someone wrecked and we went bumper to bumper for 15 miles. I had to call and tell the hospital what happened, thank God for cell phones. It just so happened my Dr. was stuck in it too so that worked out for us. We did not have to wait they took her right away. THANK YOU GOD FOR ANSWERING MY PRAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!! This dog means so mush to me that I could hardly eat the last couple days thinking of this appointment. Tomorrow she goes for her ACTH and Blood work so I pray it turns out good also. The end of November she see the eye Dr. and the Cardiologist. So we have pretty much covered our bases before winter comes so we can limit our travel. She will have to have periodic US's to check the tumor after a couple months. She did scare me on the way home though, she was doing that real rapid breathing for quite a while. She is resting now after her walk and is not doing it any more. I got a disc burned of each US image she has had and will give them to my vet to look at, but want them back. The rest of the day is going to be low key because I did not sleep well and I am tired after that drive. I am equally as pleased with the findings on Woody. Yes this is one of those terrific days! Blessings
Patti

WOOHOO!! So glad to hear the tumor hasn't grown! Now get some rest and enjoy that sweet girl a bit today.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Woop woop way to go Tipper this is fab news your prayers for Tipper and Woody have been answered and thank you for thinking of Woody. They really are built to last these little jacks of ours. Now go rest, relax and cuddle your precious girl that's what I'm doing

Well I sure am glad I signed on today and checked your thread so I could share in the good news!!!!!

Yea, Tipper!!!! Good girl!!!!

Thank you everyone who prayed for my girl. She is so tired out she is napping. We are to get rain until Friday and then on the weekend also. Glad I did my stuff outside, but sorry the dogs will not be able to walk. Going to the ACTH tomorrow so I am going to get some rest, this wears me out, but I will gladly do it for my baby. Blessings
Patti

Yay Tipper, good news, sending prayers and hugs....

That is great news Patti! :) couldn't be happier for you and for Tipper.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Haven't posted here before, but I've been lurking and concerned. So glad to hear good news!

Whew! Great news Patti!:p xxxx

That's incredible news Patti!!!!!!!!

Such great news Patti. It was a good day for both Tipper and Woody. Sure pray todays tests come back normal and you can then relax a little, and as you put it settle in for the winter.

Way to go Tipper !!!... now show them today you are doing well, thanks to your Momma.

Hi Everyone:
Last nite it rained hard so Tipper went in the closet. She gets an acidy stomach from her nerves and early this morning I could here the gastro noises loud and clear. As soon as she goes potty, and eats about 20 minutes later she is ok and it goes away. I hate like heck to take her back to the vets again after yesterday, but I need these ACTH numbers. I pray we can get thru the blood work hurdle and that things have settled done with her ALT and Alk phos. I don't want those number any higher than they were last time. I am praying with the supplements and gallbladder meds that the numbers are down. This is our last hurdle to cross for now. You know I was so thankful about yesterdays outcome, I did not ask God for anything last nite just said a million thank you's. I will resume the cush pups prayers tonite. At least we don't have to be at the vets until 11:am so we don't have to rush out of here. It is still coming down this morning, and if it stops I will walk Tipper. Toby could care less about the rain, but I won't take him and leave Tipper alone so he has to wait until she can go. That little Teddy is as cute as a button, and so sick please everyone pray for him to recover, his mom is really struggling with this. I was so glad for everything I have learned from all of you yesterday when I met two sets of Cush parents. I was able to pay forward the knowledge I have gained, so you have helped more people. I hope to see them join the forum. Blessings
Patti

Hi Everyone:
We are back from the vets office. Both of us are exhausted. Tipper seemed annoyed this time without my regular vet. The substitute was a young lady with attitude, which doesn't go well with Tipper and I. I went thru everything to make sure there were no mistakes and everything was timed right. I am sure she will tell my vet that she thought she was being interrogated by an FBI agent! I just don't care anymore, all I care about is my girl being taken care of properly. Hope she is not a regular at this office, I can see a clash coming on!! I informed her I would pick up the results as soon as they were in, she started to tell me she had to go over them, I interrupted her telling her it is not necessary and this is my regular procedure at which the techs told her yes it is. So I will scan them myself as soon as I get my hands on them. I pray the blood work is good, so I can relax for at least a few days. It is real dark and pouring rain again this evening. Tipper did get a walk after the vet visit. I am praying for dear Woody, and so sorry for his diagnosis. Blessings
Patti

Keeping all fingers and paws crossed for great results! :)

You can handle any vet thrown at you. :) No worries there. Hoping the numbers all come back really good!

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

Patti, Glad to hear all went well with the ultra sound. Hopefully the test results will be good news also.
Prayers and hugs to you and Tipper.

We're waiting with you Patti, hugs.

Hi Everyone:
Thank you all for your well wishes, you are getting me thru all this with your strength. Tipper had a good nite last nite, we both were exhausted and it was lights out early. Tipper even slept in 15 minutes late which she never does. It gave me hope yesterday when I read the post from the person that has kept their dog going for 3 years now on Trilostane. I am once again hoping for another birthday for my girl. I will be calling the vets office around 11am to see if Tipper's blood work is in, I am anxious to see it after all the tweaks I have done with her supplements etc. I will finally be able to let go a little and not have this knot in my stomach if the blood work is ok. It is really cool here this morning Tipper had to wear a vest to walk. It rained all nite and is going to start here again shortly. Tipper finally had a break thru and lost 2 whole ounces. I am not going to complain as any loss is good right now. I will be happy when my regular vet is back on the 21st. I will post as soon as I get the numbers. Blessings
Patti

Hi Everyone:
Well I have the results in hand and need some opinions as soon as possible cause you know me I want this under control yesterday. Tipper's post jumped from 3.0 to 8.3 and that is why I am seeing the hunger etc. The pre was 0.7 and went up to 1.5. Now here is the tricky part. I want to lower the post without lowering the pre too much. My though is this she is currently taking 20mg Vetoryl in the morning and 5mg trilostane at nite. She had previously been on 30mg Vetoryl in the morning until her pre dropped to 0.7 that is when they wanted the dosage dropped. Since 30mg is too much and 25 is too low, how would 20mg Vetoryl and 7mg Trilostane nboth given at the same time in the morning. I had given her the 20 Vetoryl and 5 trilo together in the morning and that was not enough she was starving at nite so they made me split the dose 20 and 5. SO I say 27mg all at one time in the morning. I would love and need some opinions. Do you think I should go to 28 with 8 being trilostane? THis is getting expesive as I just bought 90 of the 5mg trilo, now probably can't use them.
The other things I was worried about was the Alk Phos. it was previously 201 and is down to 150. The ALT had been 137 and is now 88. So I am grateful for that especially when the IMKS told me the Ursidiol would make no difference in Tipper's ALT. Well we know that not to be true, and I am so glad I listened to myself and put her on it anyway. The other value that I am still really concerned over is the Reticulocyte it was 129 now 128 but that is still high. It has something to do with new blood cells not forming totally, like in hemolytic anemia. Does anyone else have their blood report and have high reticulocyte? If so please let me know the numbers you baby has, I need to get this worked on asap. The rest of the blood report was good but the triglycerides are still thru the roof which is common for cush dogs. I am relieved, but must get on this cortisol lowering now. I could tell by the way she was acting that it had increased, and I kept saying about her moving around the bed at nite which seems to be a hallmark for it. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated so thank you in advance. Blessings
Patti

Just a quick note. I think you'll need to continue with the split dosage, but maybe tweak it a bit. What I would probably do is increase it in the evening, by adding to it as that is when she gets restless and hungry. Don't throw away a 5mg, you could order say 2mg pills or even 3mg to add to the 5, but I think leave the 20 alone in the morning, since we know that 30mg at one time takes her dangerously low.
It is harder with an adrenal tumor than a pituitary one I think, when it comes to management and dose tweaking seem to be the norm.

Are those ALT and ALP results in the normal range? or still high? No I don't have anything with molly having abnormal Reticulocyte.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Hi Patti,
I agree with Sharlene on this one. Afternoon and evening seem to be the time when Tipper is the most uncomfortable. Once a day dosage will likely increase that, as her morning Vetoryl wears off. You might want to tweak it a little, but I wouldn't do away with her evening dosage all together. I think she needs at least some Trilo in the evening.

Do you still think that when her 30mg dose lasted her all day and there were no issues?

This is my think-so only, I don't know if there is anything to support this or not. But it seems to me since this drug is known to have such a very short life in the body and it is known that adrenal tumors are more difficult to manage medically, it would make more sense to try to keep an even amount of the drug in the system over a 24 hour period instead of a lot in the mornings and a little bit at night. In my simple mind, it would be better to have the dose more evenly divided AM and PM.

Again, this is just my whacky mind wandering down the corridors but it makes sense to me.

Sharlene:
The Alk Phos is normal but at the very end of normal the range is 10-150 hers is currently 150, it used to be 35 believe it or not. The Alt is normal also in the range of 5-107 with hers at 88. It is coming down with the meds.

Thanks Leslie I always take your information seriously as you really seem to have a knack for knowing what to do.

Kathy thanks for the input, it is helping me do the right thing here.

I called Diamondback and even though I have about 60 capsules of 5mgs of Trilostane left, it is just as cheap to order 7 mg. as it is 2mg. So that way I won't have to give her 2 pills. She will be getting 27mg a day and I think that will be where she needs to be without making the top number go too low. I talked to Dechra and the vet wants to talk to my vet, so my vet is out until Monday and I will take care of this then, I do not want to have to deal with the vet subbing for him. It is just better that way. I need to get a grip on this Reticulocyte problem. If anyone is familiar with it please let me know. I am going to have to get my vet researching it and find out how to correct this, I have looked but not found a whole lot of possibilities. It is pouring here again and the forecast sayd we go to the 40's next week. Tipper will be thrilled. Blessings
Patti

Patti,

We split Daisy's dose exactly in half so that she gets the same amount twice a day. This is the best way to go.

Hi Patti... just checking your posts and the test results. You know I can't help you at all.... but I still check to see how you and Tipper are doing.

Glad things went fairly well, and I know you'll do everything possible for your baby.

Hi Everyone:
Well Tipper had a decent nite, but as I said before moving all around the bed. Lots of swallowing and her mouth sounded sticky, and she was sticking her tongue out again repeatedly all nite. She was so restless that she kept me up a lot unfortunately. I am eagerly awaiting my vets return to get her an increase in her trilo RX. I am going to continue the research on the Reticulocyte and see what solution I can come up with. Tipper already walked, it was dark here so you have to use a flashlight because of skunks. We are both going to take it easy for the day, I am physically feeling the strain. I don't have to take her anywhere until Wednesday for blood pressure, and Thursday I have to take Elvis to get his semi annual trimming etc. So not too bad of a week coming up. Tipper was snuggling with the covers last nite like she used to do. It is so good to see them do things that they haven't done since being sick. She is definitely enjoying the cooler weather. She has quite a few of those little fatty bumps now. The one on her knee cap may have to get removed under a local as it is big like a quarter size and feels like it could burst. When I massage her I am finding all these new little bumps. Some could be calcium deposits. I am going to email the IMS about the Reticulocyte thing and see what she says about it. I never let anything go as I want to get things while they are small problems, so this is gnawing away at me. Blessings
Patti

I hope you manage to get in a relaxing day and that the weekend gives you some time to rest.

Finding the right balance for them is hard sometimes, I am going through that with Zoe. Parts of her needs a higher cortisol number and other parts need a lower one:o:o

Keep the faith.

Addy:
I know how busy you are thanks for taking time out to think of my girl. Hope Zoe is well. Blessings
Patti

Hi Everyone:
Another decent nite for Tipper and she has already walked today as rain is supposed to be approaching. I sent the IMS a letter asking about the Reticulocyte being high on Tipper's report and what to do in tic situation. I will see if she has any ideas. Tipper had good energy yesterday. In the afternoon a bulldozer came onto the property behind us and started digging. They are putting in a garage. Well Tipper heard the machine and started to shake. It is unbelievable, we are getting rid of the storms for cooler weather, and she won't have to worry about them, so now this. I hope it goes up quickly as it is near the part of the house where my office is and she loves it in there. I have a blanket and pillows on the floor for her. I don't want to have to contain her to the front of the house for God knows how long. She is just super sensitive to noise since being on Vetoryl. I sent for Lourdes water for Tipper from the famous spring in Lourdes France where many miraculous healings have taken place. Friends wanted to pay to send my dad there when her got sick, but her was too ill to make the journey. There is nothing I will not do to try to heal my girl, so I am going to try it. Blessings
Patti

Patti,
Just thinking about you and Tipper. My Tia was sensitive to sounds too. Even a cough would send her running. If I felt a cough or sneeze coming on, I'd get up and run to another room. Bless their hearts.

Anyway, I just wanted you to know I'm thinking about y'all.

Donna

Donna:
Yes it is terrible what this disease does and how it changes your baby. Tipper is always on the alert for any strange noise, her ears are always going like little radar. The Vetoryl has really changed her personality. If you make her mad, or she doesn't get what she wants when she wants it look out. She was never like that. She is also very impatient, which was not the case previous to all this. I love her no matter what, and will continue to fight for her. I am so sorry for the hard time you are going through. It has to be the worst thing in the world to lose you best friend. Blessings
Patti

Hi Everyone:
Well is poured here all nite but Tipper did well. As long as there is no thunder she seems ok. She was drinking a bit more yesterday, I can't wait until Monday to get an Rx from my vet for the 7mg trilostane. I hope that puts her where she needs to be. It is in the 40's this morning, next week we are expecting snow and rain all week. That is ok as we do better in the colder weather. I can really tell the difference in her from the Adequan shots. I was looking up some herbs yesterday that keep inflammation down. I do not want that tumor growing and want to keep her pain to a minimum. I am going to run them past Leslie and see what she thinks. I thought I would add this just in case anyone ever gets the idea to use Yucca, don't do it as it said it stimulates the adrenal glands. Tipper had to have her coat on this morning. Her hair is thin and she has none at all on her belly from all the shaving for the ultra sounds. My heat was coming on all nite. That is one bill I hate to pay. Tipper's Vetoryl went up from 34.95 to 41.95. That is quite a jump, and since I have to buy 2 boxes and trilostane on top of that, it is really getting tight around here. Blessings
Patti

Hi Everyone:
Well my vet will be back today and I can get a new RX for Tipper's trilostane part of her dosage. I have not heard any answer from the IMS on the letter I faxed her last week, she may be out and not working for a few days. it is freezing here this morning in the low 30's and we are to see snow flurries by weeks end. Last nite Tipper got under the covers for the first time in a long time. I have to put a jacket on her when I take her out first thing to potty because she is so warm from being under the covers to go out in 30 something degrees with nothing on would be asking for trouble. Her hair is sparse and she has had her belly shaved for Ultra Sounds so she has not real fur to stay warm. I know in this weakened condition of her immune system etc. I need to make sure she is taken care of well as we do not need other problems. She has a good nite, snoring and a lot of twitching and leg jumping, but did well sleeping over all. I am going to sprinkle some Tumeric over her food tonite as it is good for inflammation. Hope she eats it! Blessings
Patti

It is freezing here too, Patti. I am hoping it kills off the dang ticks for Koko. I had to wear gloves to walk the puppies this morning.

I hope the 7 mgs work for Tipper. Im in a similar boat with Zoe. Her 20 mgs at night seem too much for her but 10 mgs at night while she feels better, her urine becomes dilute.

Have a good day!!!

Hi Everyone:
Well after days of intensive research I finally found out what is causing Tipper's Reticulocyte count to keep going so high. It is called Endocrinopathy-associated erythrocytosis caused by hormones-adrenocortical hyperactivity. It causes hyperviscosity from increased RBC mass. Excitable dogs erythrocytosis is attributed to the fact fear and excitement cause splenic contractions which release more RBC. On retinal examination dilated, tortuous blood vessels may be seen, this is from hyperviscosity of the increased RBC mass.

In short Tipper is making to many red blood cells and her blood is thick, it can cause heart problems etc., and cause tiredness which she has been having. When the eye Dr. told me she had broken blood vessels in her eyes this is the cause. The fear and excitement is totally right on as I asked the eye Dr. if this could have been caused by her fear of storms, and he said yes.
The treatment for this is removing some blood, which requires a hospital stay, and drugs, which she may have to stay on for the rest of her life. The bad thing is it can mess with her white blood cells. I thank God I kept at this until I found the problem. I need to get my vet involved in this immediately. For right now she is in the normal range, but looking back at her values they have been high many times.
This disease causes so many underlying problems that it is hard to keep up with what is happening on a day to day basis. This seems to ruin or upset every system in their bodies. It is exhausting trying to stay one step ahead of this.
Tipper slept well last nite. Now I know why she is tired and not wanting to walk that much! I still feel strongly that when you tell your vet this stuff it should be incumbent upon them to search and find these problems, that is what they are being paid for, but it is never done. Unfortunately I am the one that always has to find the answers. As long as I help my girl that is all I care about, but it does make me hoppin mad. I am just thankful I have the resources to get the job done. I think I should get a huge rebate from my vet. Blessings
Patti