:(
so sad...
Printable View
:(
so sad...
My condolences. Rest in peace Lexi.
I know exactly how your neighbor is feeling right now. She made the hard choice and did what was best for Lex. She now has to live with it. I am still living with my decision. My heart goes out to her and her family as they're dealing with this loss.
Fly free sweet boy, fly free!
Oh your poor neighbour, I know the feeling of here one day gone the next I had that with Woody playing in the morning gone that night. She will be in shock as I was and that takes time to get over.
Run free little lexi
Cuddles to Molly for losing her pal x
Sharlene:
How sad for your neighbor. Lexi is running with all the animals in heaven. I wish things like this never happened. It makes you think of your own babies mortality.
Blessings
Patti
Yes it is very sad for my neighbor and I worry about her since she is alone in that big house now. Lex was certainly her mainstay. He was her buddy.
Poor molly has lost a few doggie friends and a people friend since she has been with us, and each one she Still goes up their driveway heading to the door to see if they are around. It's kind of sad actually, she misses them and seems not to forget that this is where they lived.
I bit the bullet and took Monday off so I'll have a 4 day weekend. I think I just really need a break. With it being Easter weekend, we have a family dinner and friends from out of town that we will be visiting, so figure I'll need a day to rest up before going back to work. ;)
Tomorrow we are suppose to have rain, changing to freezing rain, changing to snow. Luckily it will melt and not stick around too long, but if I wake up to that stuff, I'll be working from home tomorrow. hahaha
Molly loves it when I'm home so no hardship for me there. :)
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin
Sharlene:
Where did our sunshine and 70 s go???? Well it is snowing here now. What are you making for Easter dinner? Sounds like a good plan taking off work. Blessings
Patti
I know, we had snow here this morning too. It wasn't sticking to the roads when I left though so I went to the office.
I think it will all melt tomorrow.
Not a clue what to do for dinner. Salmon maybe, or I could do a roast or something. I really have to think about that soon right. :)
Sharlene and molly muffin
Awww, that is sad! :(
Molly walks to their houses looking for them. Now I understand why some people let the other dog say goodbye when a companion has passed away. They're smart enough to understand and it makes sense.
Molly has an ultrasound appt tomorrow.
I know I've been procrastinating with the bad weather, but losing Lex scarred the bejeebes out of me and her liver enzymes did go up a bit on the last bloodwork. Then when she hurt her back, my vet was saying that you could see on the xray that the liver is pushing the spleen, so that can't be good. I want to see what's going on with our little muchkin diva.
Cross fingers for a good report!
sharlene and molly muffin
Fooey I really Do have to come up with dinner plans, seems hubby is inviting ppl!!!!
Sharlene and molly muffin
Fingers crossed for good report. Trust hubs to invite ppl something quick like pasta maybe
Ohhhh some Canadian chick gave me a good pasta recipe!! :D:D it is now made throughout the family!
GOOD LUCK TO MOLLY MUFFIN FOR HER SCAN TOMORROW, PAWS, FINGERS ALL CROSSED!!
I hope the US goes well with no surprises for our sweet Molly girl. Let us know what they say when you can.
You poor neighbor. :( If there is a blessing here, it is that this came on fast and didn't linger, Lex didn't suffer. I hope you and Molly will continue to find joy in your walks....maybe someday your neighbor will join you for a stroll. ;)
I'm praying for you and Molly today. Hugs. Song.
Sharlene,
That is so sad about your neighbors pup. :(
I am thinking about you and Molly today and hoping all goes well with the ultrasound. I will be checking later for any updates. Go Molly girl! :)
Hugs,
Tina and Jasper xo
Any news #drumming fingers # can you tell I've no patience. Oh off course time difference forgot bout that :confused:
Yes, I'm sitting here too hoping and waiting that all is great with the little diva.
I'm checking in too!! :)
I am home for an hour, but molly is still there. I saw a new IMS today and I really liked her. http://www.vetemergency.ca/docs/bio_D_Naigamwalla.html
We went over everything, molly's history, whats going on now, what has gone on in past years, etc. She took a lot of time actually with me. We talked the cushings angle, since that is what is on the radar for the last few years.
She thinks molly doesn't show the typical symptoms of cushings, which we knew and she doesn't want to treat with no symptoms and the repeated LDDS test all coming back negative. She said, maybe once they wouldn't but eventually it would show a positive and molly's doesn't. Yes we have the issues of liver, etc and hopefully today will answer some of that.
So today Molly is having:
ultrasound
BP
Lung xray
Atypical cushings test to be sent to Tenn (the most expensive test I'm having done)
Urinalysis
Neuro consult for her back
I think that is it.
So, for the cushings forum the most interesting thing was the discussion of atypical that she brought up. I said, but her cortisol is high, that would make it normal cushings right? She said, yes and no, if something else is causing the high cortisol (live, kidney, gall bladder, etc) she could actually have both. If she has atypical in addition to something else. Or maybe not. She did mention that every atypical they send all seem to come back with outside normal ranges and other vets are seeing the same thing, which is causing some discussion amongst vets of whether the ranges, protocols need to be reevaluated on that test. So that was interesting discussion.
I told her I was part of a cushings forum and she thought that was pretty cool, that owners Should know the ins and outs of what is going on or possible with their pets. So, nice there was no push back against other opinions and yep, you know we brought in Dr. Petersons opinion of not treating without clear symptoms. (she totally agrees) Discussed Dr. Oliver, the father of Atypical, she is a fan. And Dr. Bruyette in California, again a fan and doing great work in the field. So, her and I were very sympatico in what we were thinking and where we are at.
So, all the test including atypical is to basically, cover all our bases concerning molly's health and see if we can figure out what is going on.
No heart murmur by the way, so yay!
I'll know more after the evaluation today, the ultrasound is completed and I meet back with her at 3pm this afternoon.
I came home to do a few work items as I have to pay for todays adventures. LOL Yea, molly as put me back to work. hahaha That Diva!
They also have food to give molly as soon as the ultrasound is over.
hugs all, I'll let you know what they say, when next I check in.
Sharlene and molly muffin
Sharlene I like the look of that IMS she reads well.
So Molly Muffin is getting the full MOT today. :eek: you will need to work to pay for that little lot will pop back later to see if any results
Sounds like you have found an excellent IMS, and you are certainly leaving no stone unturned!
I have found this article, written by UTK Professors, to be interesting: Variability of Estradiol Concentration in Normal Dogs It basically says that elevated estradiol can be found in normal healthy dogs. :confused:
Will be waiting anxiously with the others for sweet Molly's results.
Hugs, Lori
Sharlene:
Hoping all goes well with the results for Molly. Another nice day for the doggies outside! Blessings
Patti
We're back and I had a pretty long meeting with the IMS. Yes I do really like her, and we had a very good meeting of the minds I guess one would say.
She'll be emailing me her discharge write up, which is good, because even though I was trying to take notes, it wasn't working very well. Not sure when we'll get that as she said she normally does discharges from home and she is on duty tonight, tomorrow and the Easter holiday. No rest for the IMS. :)
So.... it could be better and it could be worse. That is what I am telling myself.
Anyone can tell I like to procrastinate the do not want to deal with it stuff in my head. I've so far, browsed and responded on every thread. Went through the facebook group to make sure everything is fine there. Enjoyed a lovely picture of Squirt, which momentarily freaked me out as I worried what had happened. Nothing, Squirt was just having a snooze and looking adorable. And then I could think of no other reason to not come to my thread to update.
So here goes:
The good.
No heart murmer
No back pain.
Liver enlarged but no nodules seen on it.
Bladder stones have passed with no problem.
Her BP was okay, they did 3 tests to make sure. 138 - 144 and they think that she was having some stress reactions so the reality is probably lower than that.
lung xray is good
She doesn't have classic symptoms of cushings.
The Not as good
luxating patella, back left leg, stage two, so no surgery recommended at this time
A kidney stone in each kidney. Left one is small, right one is smaller.
If they don't move, there won't be a problem. If they move to create a blockage, then kidney surgery (which she felt is invasive and often causes other problems) a stint via surgery at University of Guelph, or send us to the states to either Purdue or NYC, AMC to try to have it zapped with sonic to break it up, currently not offered in Canada.
The liver is enlarged, probably more than last time, but hard to tell exact diameters on the ultrasound even though "high res" but as I said, no nodules seen, but it is pressing on lungs, which causing some breathing noises.
The adrenal glands are bilaterally very enlarged more so than the last ultrasound.
Looking at the ultrasound, liver and adrenal glands she would say she is definitely pituitary cushings.
Add to that: Molly now has a left side nodule (tumor) 1.3 centimeters on the adrenal gland. Currently non invasive to the vena cava. She thinks most likely is benign, but of course no way to tell for sure. Since both adrenals are enlarged, she does not think primary adrenal cushings, as one is usually larger than the other in that case, while mollys are just both huge, therefore, likely pituitary and adrenal tumors.
Molly Might just be in that 5% of dogs, where the tumor of the pituitary is in an area that does not respond to LDDS, it is unknown why she would continuously test negative on all LDDS test and we will likely be retesting that. We could do an MRI as that is the only way to know for certain.
She doesn't want to treat with lysodren, as that is very dependent on being able to watch for symptoms that molly doesn't have. No way to tell if she were to go too low during loading.
Trilostane she said, will normally cause the adrenal glands to enlarge, but might let the liver shrink, as the liver is a very resilient organ.
We might try the flax and lignans depending on what the UofT test comes back with.
So there you have it. We have some things to think about and we have some things to keep an eye on. It's not good, but others have had and continue to have it worse.
Molly on the whole, she said, is quite the character, full of life and interested in everything and everyone. She becomes this beautiful dog it seems when I am not around and at which time she becomes very protective of me. (showed the vet tech her teeth when he went to touch her while with me, and was a completely doll in the back when doing the ultrasound) She had a nice snack after her tests. In fact, I went out to the front to wait for them to go get her for me and the lady at the desk looked at me and I said, she'll be out in a minute, she's having a snack and they just laughed and thought that was wonderful and went back to look at her. (vet tech and IMS both said, she'll be out, she has to finish her snack, she's hungry) Molly obviously knows how to win hearts.
This has been a long day and I don't even know how much I've taken in. There was one point when I said something to the IMS and just stopped and had to catch my breath and start over.
She said to relax for the next bit and we'd see what the tests show and go from there.
Thanks for being around today everyone. I might be a tad bit emotional at the moment, and I'm sure I have written a book and yet still feel like there is more to say and yet nothing to say.
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin
You know how out of whack I am, that I typed all of that and then had it in the preview pane and never clicked submit. I then went and laid down, took a 15 minute nap, took molly for a walk because she was bugging me and then thought hmm, wonder if I posted that. No reason to even think that other than, my mind is elsewhere I suppose.
The thing that is bothering me is that molly has No signs of cushings other than what the ultrasound shows. None, doesn't over eat, doesn't over drink, no potty accidents, urine isn't dilute, not lethargic, eyes bright and interested. And yet she might have Both a pituitary and adrenal tumor??!!! That is blowing my mind. How could she have both and no signs of either.
I know I need to chill out, but it's all so confusing and it shouldn't be. I've been living, breathing cushings, every single day for years now on this forum and yet it is my own dog that is going to surprise me and be the one that is completely different from all the textbooks. Even the IMS said, Molly doesn't appear to have read the text book at all.
arrrggghhh
Sharlene and molly muffin
Wow, wow, wow!
What a day, what a day.
Sorry, repeating myself. I can imagine you must be incredibly overwhelmed with your head spinning Sharlene.
I am sorry about the bad news. LP is not so terrible. I went through LP surgery on my Ichiro as he was grade III. Kidney stones, Tobey has those as well, but they have remained as they are, and no vet here will even discuss kidney surgery to remove kidney stones. Of course, she has numerous small ones, not singular stones.
About the cushings.... hmm. That is a true stumper. I wonder if Molly (and I don't even know if this is possible), is just the type that her body can and does process the excess cortisol without issue (no excessive symptoms), except for the stress it causes on her liver? Just like some people can be 'carriers' of certain diseases, and so they never display many symptoms, but it's still there? Is that possible? I'm just thinking out loud at this point of course.
I "second" what Renee just said!!Quote:
Wow, wow, wow!
What a day, what a day.
I would be exhausted and my head would be swimming, too. It is so much information to think over and process. But thank you so much, Sharlene, for giving us such a full report tonight. There have been so many of us all around the world, awaiting your news today.
I've got to think things over a bit, myself. And then I'll come back again to post any new thoughts. But first and foremost, it sounds as though this new IMS has taken so much time to try to help sort things out. That is a huge gift. And we will all be here alongside you, to work things through and come up with the best plan possible.
In the meantime, try to get some rest tonight. And give Molly a huge hug for being the brave special diva that she is!! ;)
Many hugs,
Marianne
You are so brave Sharlene. So much to process!:o You'll make the right choice when it comes to Molly's care. You always do.:p
I think a glass of wine, chocolate and a nice hot bath is in order.
Big loving hugs my dear,
molly is just an extraordinary girl! as long as she is doing fine, despite of everything, i won't be worrying too much. she is a medical miracle i guess.
maybe vetoryl will destroy her cortisol balance and make her really sick.
i would be afraid of that.
at the moment her body seems to cope well with all of this.
I know exactly how you feel and there's just so much to think about. I was worried sick for several days until I could come to terms of what was going on with Keesh. You are far more knowledgeable about things then I could ever hope to be, so I know that you will make all the right choices for our "Diva".
You and Molly had quite a day yesterday.... and she seems to be none the worse, it's us that takes the brunt of the news while they seem to just carry on in all their cute little ways. Maybe Keesh and Molly are two of a kind after all.
I'll be interested to see what course of action you take, but whatever it is, it will be the best.
Give Molly a huge hug for me, and there's one also just for you.
Really - wow, just wow, what a day! No wonder you were trying to avoid this post - in your shoes, my head would still be spinning this morning. How WEIRD that nothing fits Cushing's except the ultrasound results! :confused: We've had pups here who seemed to have read the book then done all they could to prove it wrong - Molly just burned her book before she even opened the wrapper!
Take your time, ask lots of questions, do all that research then ask more questions. You know we are right by your side and will do all we can to help. But first, just take some time to breath. ;)
Many hugs,
Leslie and the gang
Sharlene:
Of course I am happy about the good results, and I am just as sad about the other. I am understanding that Molly is in the same predicament Tipper is in, with not one but two tumors?? You know they said Tipper was not your typicalmCush dog either, just like Molly. Was this tumor present on her left adrenal on the last ultra sound? Are they going to monitor it to make sure it does not grow? You have a lot of information to go thru. You know even Dr. Bruyette said Tipper's numbers etc were not that of a typical cush dog. Hopefully this is just an adenoma, and it is not secreting anything. I know how you feel like your head is going to explode from all the information to digest. It's like a ouch to the gut hearing all this. Blessings
Patti
Wow Sharlene never expected any of that. I bet your head is still spinning and off course Molly will be going about like nothing's happened:p
So she is a bit of a conundrum re the cushings I wouldn't expect anything less from her she is a diva after all :D some good points about the back pain and no heart murmour yay
All joking aside I know you will do the best for Molly and what the next step is for her and you. Big hugs to you and butt scratches to Molly :)
Hi Sharlene - well someone once said to me that Flynn's scan results made them feel like a deer in the headlights, ditto to Molly's report! It is very thorough and kudo's to your vet team for working through it with you, have put some comments below. x
Quote:
Originally Posted by molly muffin
Hello all and thank you for the replies, they certainly help. In answer to a few questions.
No the adrenal nodule wasn't there on the last ultrasound done in 2012.
We were going to do the repeat ultrasound in Dec 2013, between hubby getting pneumonia, then molly hurting her back, it didn't get done till now, so a difference of about 18 months (?) for this to show up.
No LFT's were done this time Trish. We had the Dec results which showed the ALP and ALT had gone up some. The ALP increased almost 500 pts.
She has had high cortisol since 2011 we think, confirmed in 2012, but no reason for it, since she has never and still doesn't show cushings symptoms. Her LDDS tests are what have been negative.
We thought maybe she hadn't gone full out, or maybe it was something else causing the higher cortisol levels. The IMS said, the only sign of cushings that Molly has, is the ultrasound and the higher cortisol, but no outward symptoms.
On the last ultrasound her adrenals and liver were moderately enlarged, no nodule seen, and now the adrenals are much larger and the nodule has shown up.
We'll know more about the kidney stone locations and size and the nodule and adrenal and liver size, once I have the report in my hands. That should give us the details.
There is really nothing to be decided until I can see the report and look at what is actually said on it, locations, recommendations and size of various things.
I wonder if the nodule didn't come into existence due to the higher cortisol levels. The thing is that the cortisol levels don't seem to affect molly outwardly at all, but do internally.
The IMS said that without symptoms she doesn't like to treat and that is what Dr. Peterson said too. This was before we knew of the nodule. The IMS doesn't want to jump into anything until all tests are back and we can have a clear picture of what is going on. I am loath to do surgery if it is a benign tumor that doesn't continue to grow and we'd have to monitor every few months with an ultrasound to know that for sure. We also don't know without an MRI about whether there is a pituitary tumor or if something else is causing the cortisol to be high. (this was discussed along with the could she have atypical and something else going on too)
My current plan is to not over think it till we have test results on everything back and I have the report. That will tell us more I think. Then I'll consider whether a $2000. MRI scan should be done too. Man those things are expensive (I think that is the cost, could be more)
Molly is the same as every other day. Playing, bugging me when she wants something, like it's dinner time right now. She hasn't even finished the dry stuff from this morning, but wants the good stuff put on top now. LOL She's had a walk, pranced around the neighborhood, dropped off the mail where needed. You wouldn't know a thing was wrong with her.
And one thing I would have to say no on, is the question for surgery, can you accept losing her if something happens during the surgery. No I couldn't accept that when she is so normal looking and acting.
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin
She sure is a mystery that's for sure.
I love surgery as it has saved Flynn, but that being said if a nodule was not looking nasty and invasive and my dog had no symptoms I would not be doing it either so totally agree with you there. Flynn also has that pesky nodule on his remaining adrenal. There it will stay unless it starts playing up.
So we await formal report, get up to date bloods, LDDS, LFTs etc and then discuss further with IMS about way forward including further imaging?
Agree with Trish :D I kick myself everyday about doing Woody,s surgery with no outward symtoms either. So we will wait patiently for the written report
Woody's was nasty though Tracy, something had to be done and I would have done the same as you so don't kick yourself too hard OK>!
http://animalendocrine.blogspot.com/...c-dog-for.html
http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/201...l-adrenal.html
Quote:
Could this dog have Cushing's disease?
Hyperadrenocorticism (Cushing's disease) is a clinical diagnosis and is based primarily on the finding of compatible signs (e.g., polydipsia, polyphagia hepatomegaly, hair loss, pot-belly). In a dog suspected of suffering from Cushing's syndrome, we confirm the diagnosis by using one or more of the adrenal function tests (e.g, ACTH stimulation or low-dose dexamethasone suppression tests) (5-7).
One should never make a diagnosis of hyperadrenocorticism based on the finding of large adrenal gland size alone. Remember that the stress of any nonadrenal illness commonly leads to an overactive hypothalmic-pituitary-adrenal axis. Therefore, any dog with chronic stress or illness can develop bilateral adrenocortical hyperplasia as a physiological response. I know that some radiologists like to diagnose Cushing's disease based on adrenal gland size, but this just cannot be done using this criteria alone (5,6). Dogs with Cushing's disease certainly tend to have larger adrenal glands, but large adrenal glands alone are not diagnostic for this disease.
I know you already know this- just a reminder how it all may come in to play for Molly.:):):)
Ok Mum (Trish) lol