Zoe By My Side- Our Journey with Cushings

Hi Addy,

Bless your heart. I wish there was a clear cut answer to all Zoe's issues. But there is only one CLEAR answer in all of this - do not let the IMS load Zoe. IMHO that would be a recipe for a sure disaster digestive-wise PLUS that is not protocol for treating intermediate hormones. So just lay your ears back, grit your teeth and tell them that is NOT going to happen - Zoe will start on a maintenance dose only at the lowest possible mg (recommended at 25-50mg/kg/week). :o:oahem...see post #413:o:o

Of course, I can be a rude old broad at times. :o:rolleyes::p

I can so sympathize with you since Trink started having issues. Everything that happens worries me, everything she eats worries me, everything she ISN'T eating worries me, giving meds worries me, not giving meds worries me. :rolleyes: And we have had no where near the problems you and Zoe have! And now we are more than likely going to have to make some major changes in both Trink and Squirt's diets and that makes me just sick. My docs started me on a new med that costs almost 1/2 of what I get each month! :eek: I don't know that I can continue to cook for them much longer. The very idea scares me to pieces for Squirt and makes my stomach knot up for Trink. :(

I haven't started the slippery elm bark for Trink yet because she is doing good at the moment and I am scared to add anything for fear of setting her off again. Plus I am still not clear on how to give it so that will wait until I understand a bit more, then I will share with you what we are doing and how it works.

Squirt is doing ok on the Lyso maintenance. The day of her dose, she doesn't feel too perky but that is not uncommon. She actually drinks more on those days, is less active and interested, and she has some nausea/indigestion. I had planned to have another UTK panel the end of this month, but after getting that prescription filled yesterday, it will have to wait til next month. :eek::(

Keep your chin up, Addy. You are doing such a great job of looking after Zoe and doing what is best for her.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Kim, Marie, Jane, Leslie, Annie: thank you all from the bottom of my heart for coming to my rescue. I tried to have the melt down. I laid on the floor and started a heart to heart talk with Zoe which she was very interested in (the attention, not the content). It was just getting good when Koko decided to join us. He kept smelling my head and then licking my face and then he would run to Zoe and do the same thing. Well, it started to tickle so I started laughing, at which point Zoe became upset with Koko for interrupting and started a wrestling match with him and that was the end of the melt down. :rolleyes:

I spent the rest of the night brain dead because you are right Kim, my head wants to explode. Something works for a week so I get hopeful and then it stops and I am devastated.:eek:

I am very frightened now because it has never gone on this long and I cannot stop the metronidazole. I worry about neurological side effects. She acts sick on 250 mgs per day. I know I have to wait for test results but the fear is ebbing up into my throat. I’m just scared.:(

I guess it is time to bring out my tomb of IBD/colitis research and start reviewing it all again. Leslie, I hear you and I know exactly what you mean. I truly hope for Trink this is a short term problem. I can't do the pumpkin and rice like I used to, works different on Zoe with the raw food. Maybe I should just put her back on the perscription ID canned dog food.:confused: Gosh, I hate to do that.

Love you all,
Addy

Quote:

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Zoe's test, sky high numbers, she was severly stressed and had colitis flare up going on for over a month, her symptoms are still mild,mostly coat and tail as they were then:

UTK Adrenal Panel Thu, 5 /27/2010 11:27 AM
Results/Comments
Endocrinology Lab Case# EN 10-4088
Test: Result: Normal Range** Result Normal Range**
(post ACTH)
Cortisol ng/ml 47.7 2.1-58.8 304.4* 65.0-174.6
Androstenedione ng/ml 1.05* 0.05-0.57 7.69* 0.27-3.97
Estradiol pg/ml 114.8* 30.8-69.9 102.2* 27.9-69.2
Progesterone ng/ml 0.99 0.3-0.49 5.91* 0.10-1.50
17 OH Progesterone ng/ml 1.18* 0.08-0.77 20.33* 0.40-1.62
Aldosterone pg/ml *** 33.9 11-139.9 357.1 72.9-398.5

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Marianne reminded me of this post and the cortisol level when this test was done. Zoe's cortisol is quite high here which is more than likely why your IMS is insisting on a loading phase for her. I understand the reasoning now and am so sorry if I caused you more angst with my last post.

If she was calmer and not having a flare up when she had the most recent UTK panel and the cortisol comes back that high, then loading may be the best option to get a handle on the Cushing's - her cortisol and intermediates. If that is the case, it may be time to just bite the bullet and try to treat the Cushing's, hoping the colitis can be controlled until her body adjusts - hopefully adjusts.

I have tried to put myself in your shoes....what if Trink's colitis was a bad as Zoe's and she were the one with Cushing's, not Squirt? Would I use any of the traditional treatments? Of them, Lyso is my preference; would I load her? or would I start with a maintenance dose and see what that did? would I then load her if that wasn't enough? What if her system simply couldn't handle anything that had the slightest hope of lowering her cortisol and/or intermediates? Could I resign myself to watching her deteriorate, helpless to do anything for her? I have a feeling I would be continuously trying things and continuously cleaning my bed! :eek: It would be a constant battle of adjusting doses between bouts - "ok, 25mg is too much, we will try 12mg next" - until I either found a level that she could tolerate and we could work up from, or the colitis defeated that attempt completely. Then I would move on to the next treatment until they ran out and I was seriously considering flying her to some foreign country for a black market magic bean. Every time she had a flare-up, guilt would eat me alive for giving her whatever the latest treatment was. Every time I saw her signs, guilt would eat me up because I wasn't doing anything or not enough. In short, I would drive myself crazy.

And you have a melt-down???? PLEASE have 15 or 20....an hour if you need! Trinket and I have only just touched the tip of the iceberg so I can barely begin to imagine what you are going through but my heart goes out to you and Zoe.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Hi Addy,

Maddie stopped eating the raw would then only eat the rice, chicken, and pumpkin. She would still sort of eat her dry I gave her, but most of the time out of my hand. It helped with the runny poop towards the end.

I know the weakness in the hind leg area is part of the cushings and it got better when I started her on the lyso--she could climb the stairs better. I think there was more going on at the end than we knew so I think her numbers and the symptoms were kind of mixed up--that is why I was so sure she needed to be loaded again when actually her numbers went back down---sooooo confusing.

Keep the box of tissues close so when the 15-20 minute sessions start you are prepared.

Keep up the laughter sessions with Koko at least Zoe wanted to partake in the fun.

Leslie, you NEVER distress me or cause me anguish of ANY kind. I understood what was happening. You are my sunny port in the storm.:)

I know Dr. Oliver told me to add maintenance dose first because he knew I was worried about her chronic issues. That was why we even discussed Trilostane. IMS says her experience is maintenance dose will not lower cortisol enough and she is most likely right.:confused:

However, when I asked her if she ever loaded a dog with chronic diarrhea, she first said no, looked away from my stare, came back and said but I have loaded a lot of older dogs with chronic health problems.

I was worried enough about trying lysodren to begin with, that Zoe’s body won’t handle it. I never dreamed I might face the prospect of not being able to take her of metronidazole.

Can you load a dog taking an antibiotic on a daily basis? Has anyone here done that?

Love ya girlfriend,
Addy

Dear Addy,

I am so sorry for the decisions you need to make. You have gotten very good advice. Since I never used Lyso, I'm not familiar with what it can do.

You and Zoe are in my thoughts and prayers that everything goes well.

(((HUGS)))

Luv ya,

Terri

Thanks Marie and Terri,

still trying to find a dog with colitis or ibd that loaded with lysodren.

Koko has been keeping the tears at bay, he has decided to be our little "Koko de Loco" again. He is not getting enough exercise with all the bad weather. Last night I wanted to have a cry session and he decided to chew up my reading glasses:eek: Then he snuck down in the basement and I did not realize it and he was locked up in the dark for about ten minutes. Who knows what he chewed up:mad: So far he is not vomiting:rolleyes: Man, it is going to be a long winter.

I put Zoe back on her 1/4 evening pill until I hear from the IMS. She did walk better this week when she was only one one pill rather than two. In fact this morning she wanted to go for a walk. We had snow last night and salt was all over the road. I could not let her walk on it, her paws burn and freeze. She stuck her face into that ice cold wind and stood there loving it in true Lhasa style:) She is having a good day today. I love good days:D

I plan to spend the weekend rereading all my IBD and colitis literature waiting for the vet to call. I can't really make any decisions until I see test results. All I can do is wait.:mad::mad:

Impatient Addy

Dear Addy
So sorry what you are going through. Will post on my own thread.
It seems like it isn't just cushing but other health issues on top of this.
I wish I could be more positive. I have long talks with Apollo also. Telling him we are going to fight this together and that I need him to hang in there for me. The walks are less and less. When we do walk he gives me this look and I just want to cry. He falls on his front legs now also and had a fall the other day scraped the skin off part of his little nose, my fault because he walks behind me and I assume he is walking when he can't. I embrace the good times as much as I can.
Love ya
Sonja and Apollo
Always praying for you.

Hi Sonja and Friends,

Just heard second hand, vet tech called hubby while I was at work, Texas gastro panel back and everything is normal. Still no word on CBC or urinalysis. Said UTK panel still not in.:confused: I will call and ask her to email results to me.

Not sure to be happy or not. If I had CBC results would feel better.
Tried reducing Zoe's metronidazole 50% am and she was already reduced pm. Seems to be going better than trying to stop pm dose completely but who know what will happen tomorrow.:mad:

Funny thing, I was reading at lunch something that perhaps may explain why we see this one day feeling good and the next day pup feels sick, it was tallking about the the fact that all the hormones including cortisol have cycles so with Cushings, one day the hormones could be in their high cycle, the next in the low cycle. Said that was why it is hard to get doses right and you have to test alot.

Gave me a better understanding of it. I never thought of it that way. That the pups have highs and lowsbased on hormonal cycle.

I will call vet tech tomorrow. The CBC panel has to be in, that was local. Maybe no news is good news.:confused:

Hugs,
Addy

Okay, not sure what this means. Vet tech said "everything was normal no problems" asked her to email test results. Still no UTK results.

In June her platlet count was high 589 out of 140-540 (was having cloitis flare not controled with drugs) now it is higher 614 ( colitis flare controled with metronidazole)

In June her ALK PTase was high 325 out of 13-289 now it is normal 283

In June her cholesteral was high 503 out of 98-300 now it is normal 269

So I should be really happy about this except not sure what the platelet count going higher means.:confused:

This time her neutrophil absolute is marked high .24 (Thought I read this is elevated with Cushings)

This time her creatinine is low .03 out of .5-2. (Again Cushings?)

What is a possible worry to me even though tech said "everything is fine, all normal " is BLD 2+ marked abnormal- last time was negative Also PROT is 30 marked abnormal- last time was negative. :eek:She is on a raw diet so not sure how that affects this or is this the start of kidney problems? Why is the platlet higher? What do I ask the IMS?

Breathe in, breathe out Addy, breathe in, breathe out.

Trying not to jump to conclusions, Addy