Jasper (12 yr old Mini Schnauzer) is now at peace

Hi All, I hope everyone is having a good weekend!

Marianne and Leslie, thank you for the feedback about the decreased poo issue. The only reason I was concerned at all is because along with having a history of colitis, Jasper has also gotten backed up before, and that is worrisome also. He has had to have an enema in the past based on an xray that showed he was totally backed up. Of course he got a pretty severe case of colitis after the enema, I guess from all the irritation. So of course I want to avoid him needing that again!!

On the food front, I called both Hills and Royal Canin and got more information about their renal diets. I am really trying hard to not be biased here given how I feel about Hills foods in general, but I have to be honest. The two people that I talked to at Hills were absolutely not as well versed or knowledgeable about their k/d diet as the person at Royal Canin was about their kidney diets.

Royal Canin staffs their customer line with vet techs, so the person I talked to there was an actual vet tech and it showed. I am not sure if the folks at Hills were techs, but it didn't seem like it. The tech at RC was very sharp. She explained that when comparing foods, you apparently can't go by the % dry matter numbers listed on the bag for protein, fat, etc. She said that all the nutrients need to be converted to grams per 1000 calories (or 100 calories) in order to make an accurate comparison. She was able to calculate this conversion easily for both of the kidney diets that RC offers, I am sure she must have had a formula that she used.

I told her that I was specifically interested in the Renal MP diet as it had a higher protein level than the LP. She asked quite a few questions about Jasper, what was going on with him kidney wise, his history, lab results, etc. She absolutely agreed that the MP diet is what would be recommended for Jasper (versus the Renal LP which is lower in protein). Of course I told her I would need to run everything by my vet, but I was hoping she would agree. She said to have my vet call if she had any questions, that she had entered all of Jasper's info in the computer. She said that if she couldn't answer my vets questions she would connect her to one of their vets that are on staff there.

She said that the Renal MP diet is considered moderate protein restricted rather than extreme. (The bag also says "moderately restricted level of high biological level protein"). With all the info she was providing, I forgot to ask what numbers constitute mild, moderate or severe dietary protein restriction, but I know I can call her back and ask that another time. I left the paper with all the numbers on it at work, but I think it ended up being maybe 5 or 6 grams/1000 cal higher in protein than the Hills. My vet felt that was good, but did not feel that was as significant as the difference in the fat content. I think the RC was about 9 or 10 grams/1000 cal lower in fat, my vet felt that was more significant for Jasper. (I will need to verify those number when I have them in front of me, sometimes the memory is not so good). My vet felt that it would be great to switch Jasper to this food, and agreed with all the info the tech at RC had provided. (Whew!!). :rolleyes:

So we started the transition on 2/19 pm, he is currently eating about 75% MP diet/25% chicken and rice mixture. He has been doing well with the transition for the most part, decided to go very slow. He seems to like it, and the poo amount has increased as I have increased the kibble, which I would expect. There have been a couple of softer poos here and there, but now today it was pretty soft formed, with a bit of mucous. The color has been lighter than normal but this food is an orangish brown color, so would account for that. He is still on the metronidazole so I am concerned about the mucous and softer consistency. He will finish the metronidazole after the pm dose tomorrow. I hope he is not going to be intolerant of the food. I was planning to have him transitioned to 100% Renal MP by tomorrow, but not sure now, maybe I should add more chicken and rice back in?

I feel like he has to adjust to this food as it is our best option to treat his kidney issues and urine protein loss. I don't think I have ever seen him have mucous in the poo this late in a course of metronidazole, so I am a little worried.

His water intake has gone back up a bit thankfully, he is back to drinking between 2 and 3 cups per day for the past 3 days, so that is better. Overall he seems to be feeling pretty good for the most part. Still seems not quite as perky at times but more energetic at other times.

I would appreciate any feedback on the food transition and poo issues. And please keep him in your prayers that he is able to adjust to and tolerate this new food.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

Tina, just my opinion from what I went through with Zoe's colitis but I would keep Jasper on the metronidazole durring the transition. Maybe discuss with your vet. One thing I learned about colitis and metronidazole is these 5-7 day courses may work for an acute case but if a dog is prone to colitis or has a history of it, weaning them off of it rather than taking it for 5 days then just stopping it is much better. It was the one really good thing a vet taught me. She was holistic based vet as well as using western medicine.

Thanks Addy, I agree completely. Initially when he broke with the colitis, my vet said to give the metronidazole for a couple of days beyond him having a normal poo. We decided to complete the full course instead since we are transitioning him to a new diet. She always prescribes a 10 day course rather than 5 or 7 days, so tomorrow will be day 10. Maybe I should ask about keeping him on it even longer due to the symptoms today and the new food? I think I have a back up prescription here that I keep on hand for emergencies. I have never needed to give it to him for longer than 10 days. Your thoughts?

Yes, I think he should be on it until he is fully transitioned and it may be you have to back up a bit and go slower with the transition if he has having softer stools. You would go back to the food ratio where he did not have mucus stools and then leave him for a few days and add much smaller amounts for the next increase of food ratio. Once he is fully transitioned with good poos, you can wean him off the metronidazole, so if he is getting two doses a day, cut him back to one dose a day for 4-5 days, if stool remains good, cut back to one dose every other day for 4-5 days, then one dose every two days, then 3 days and then off.

If that weaning does not work you have to start making the one dose smaller in size. I just use my clean finger nails to shave some off until the pill is so small I cant shave any more off.

I've done it both ways but the vet taught me the first way. Sas taught me option two:):):) They both worked for Zoe.

((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))

Well, I miscalculated, Jasper was done with the 10 day course of metronidazole with the pm dose last pm. He has not had another poo since the one in question late yesterday morning, so maybe things are trying to correct themselves. He may still go when I let him out one last time before I head to work. I have continued him on the 75/25 mix of kibble/chicken and rice since he has been on that ratio since 2/22 and was doing ok before yesterday. His appetite seems good right now. I will leave a message for my vet to see if she thinks he should be on the metronidazole longer.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

Fingers crossed for a decent poo

Am sure if outsiders stumbled on this site they would wonder why we analyse these things!:D

Mel and Tia x x

Hi Tina, poo status report please.

ROFL myself silly.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

LOL Sharlene, literally. You crack me up. I know, so funny with all this poop talk!! :p

Well things are a bit better here for now, but we are going to keep mixing in the bland diet 25% for a couple of more days, and also continue the metronidazole for now. We have switched to hamburger and rice for the bland diet part. He has always done well on that before, so we switched on the slim chance that the chicken was affecting anything. This was the first time I gave him chicken and rice for colitis, before we always used beef. Unlikely that the chicken should cause problems, but we all know that Jasper goes his own way on things. :rolleyes:

The vet said it was too soon to know of he was going to be intolerant of the RC renal MP, but it entered her mind too. I pray pray pray that he will adjust.

Off to work, will check in later.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

Hi Tina,

I think I missed it, poo's okay now? :)

I think that we just Have to find the humor anywhere we can in these kinds of situations where it is high level stress constantly and worry, worry, worry. Laughter for me is the best medicine. :)

Molly Loves the chicken, but I put hamburger in one night, that I had cooked and rinsed, and no fat practically at all, and the little witch turned her nose up at it!!!!! Shocking. Of course she did finally eat it but not till she let me know that she preferred grilled chicken. Our little princess.
Does Jasper prefer the beef over the chicken or just do better on beef usually?

Did you guys get whalloped by that snow storm? It's suppose to be here tonight. Lots of heavy white (hhahaha I meant to say Wet) snow. Yea, I'm working from home the rest of the week. :) So glad my job lets me do that.

Huggers Tina and Jasper and Shelby,

Sharlene and Princess Molly Muffin

I think I missed the poo report too. heck, I talked poo for 3 years straight no break:D:D neighbors thought I was nuts out there very day examining her poo:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

what's a little poo between friends anyway?:D:D:D:D:D:D:D