Jasper (12 yr old Mini Schnauzer) is now at peace

Canned KD:

Quote:

---

Water, Egg White, Corn Starch, Pork Liver, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, and citric acid), Sucrose, Flaxseed, Dried Whey, Chicken Liver Flavor, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Sulfate, Caramel Color, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Oxide, Iodized Salt, Taurine, Ferrous Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), Zinc Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Beta-Carotene, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite.

---

Dry KD:

Quote:

---

Ingredients
Brewers Rice, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Powdered Cellulose, Lactic Acid, Calcium Carbonate, Dried Beet Pulp, L-Lysine, Potassium Chloride, Potassium Citrate, Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, Calcium Sulfate, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Vitamin E Supplement, L-Threonine, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, Magnesium Oxide, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols & Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

---

IMO -If I had to choose between the dry and wet, I'd choose the wet. I would also ask your vet what is plan B if the KD continues to aggrevate and flare Jasper's colitis because I think that could be a distinct possibilty.

Hang in there sweetie, we are all here to help and support:):):)

Wow, gag-city!!! Those ingredients do sound awful! :eek: :(

FWIW, that IDEXX round-table article suggested that wet food is better than dry for dogs with renal issues, if it is affordabe to the owner. If not, they suggested adding extra liquid to the dry food.

I just checked the analysis for the Hills dry, and it seems like it has a really high fat content. That might be aggravating Jasper's GI tract, too. I just took a quick glance at the Royal Canin ingredients and they seemed a bit more palatable, and also had a lower fat content. Still awfully low protein, though. Maybe you could augment these low-protein diets with a bit of lean, high-quality homecooked protein (like chicken breast). Of course, the ratio would be very important and would probably take a nutritionist to figure out so as not to be overdoing the protein. Maybe some other folks here with renal experience will have some more thoughts.

Marianne

Edited to add that I now see Royal Canin has at least two renal diets: one ("LP") for later-stage, and one ("MP") that is labelled for treatment of early-stage renal issues in small and medium breed dogs. The MP has a higher protein content, so that sounds as though it might be the ticket for Jasper. Here's a link with nutritional info for the kibble: http://www.petfooddirect.com/product...d-Dry-Dog-Food. It also comes in a canned form with very different ingredients: http://www.petfooddirect.com/Product...anned-Dog-Food.

That is great news on the Royal Canine Marianne. :):) The only problem I found for me with the RC prescription foods when I considered them for Zoe was that the vets did not carry them in Milw so I would have to order on line. Hopefully that is not the case anymore or for Tina's area. That was five years ago so I know things can change:):):):):):)

Tina was stressed out about having to research a different food for Jasper along with everything else she is worrying about so she was hoping the KD would work temporarily until things calmed down for both of them. I am concerned though that it already flared his colitis.

We're trying to give you options, sweetie:):):):):) Aren't you glad you dont have to work today?

You are doing great, Tina. Believe in yourself:):):):)

Marianne and Addy, (((((((Hugs)))))), and a million more. I am sitting here with tears of gratitude. You guys read my mind. I don't know how to thank you for all the information, links, resources, feedback, suggestions and support.

I just scanned all of the information and wanted to post real quick to let you know that I will be back on a bit later to give it a more thorough read and check out all the links. My Grandmother is in assisted living and they called this morning, so I need to run out there for a bit and see what is going on with her. Hopefully it won't be anything major. I wanted you both to know that I had seen the information, and am so grateful. Yes, Addy, very glad to be off today so I can do some research on this. Again, I don't know how to thank you, I am so worried about all of this. :confused:

Jasper ate his chicken and rice just fine this morning. Just gave him all his meds. :)

So I will be back in a little while, hopefully a short while.

Love and hugs from me and Jasper

Tina, I hope everything is OK with your grandmother! Good grief, but you have a lot on your plate right now!!

Just wanted to pop back to say that I hadn't noticed earlier that Glynda's Dogaware article also contains a section with a table comparing ingredients of different commercial Rx renal diets, including the Hills and the two Royal Canins. In this portion of the article, Mary Strauss (the author) does address the probable need for moderate protein restriction for dogs exhibiting significant proteinuria. You may already have seen this portion of the article, Tina, but I'll give you the specific link for it here:

http://dogaware.com/health/kidneyprescription.html

The question I have, though, is what actually constitutes "mild" or "moderate" protein restriction?? I dunno what the actual numbers should be. As far as the Royal Canin foods, I got all excited because I saw that a number of them are actually carried in-store in Petsmart, including the more highly restricted LP versions. However, it doesn't look as though they carry the MP version. But the other interesting thing is that according to Mary Strauss' chart, the "LP" canned food (which apparently Petsmart carries) actually has a higher protein level than the MP dry food. So go figure. Maybe you can mix-and-match foods in order to come up with a combo that is palatable and healthier for Jasper.

Don't worry, Tina! We'll keep working on this and come up with a good answer!

Tina.. I hope your weekend gets better... too much stress for one girl to handle!! :(

Hope your Grandmother is alright, sweetie. Let us know!

Hi Tina

Hope the day has improved and your Grandmother is OK. So happy Jasper ate his chicken, good boy!! Yay about the results too :D:D so hard trying to figure out dietary stuff, I am reading these links with interest too, so thanks girls for digging them out.

xxxxx

Hi Everyone,

Thank you all for the concern and good wishes for my Grandmother. She is fine, thankfully. She lives in a very nice assisted living facility, and does well there for the most part. Lately she has been out of touch with reality quite a bit, and today was a bit more agitated than usual about things. I spent a few hours there with her, she was able to calm down and is fine now. So relieved, as I don't need something else to worry about right now!

Marianne, yes, I had briefly looked at that table in the article, but need to take a closer look, as well as checking out all of the links you provided. And what constitutes mild, moderate or extreme protein restriction is a question I have as well. Without numbers to go by, I am not sure I know what I am looking for.

Back when my vet said we needed to start Jasper on a kidney diet, she offered the Hills k/d, Purina NF and Royal Canin as options. She said she didn't have a preference, and that we would need to see if Jasper liked one more than another. (She didn't have a sample of Royal Canin, and he didn't show a preference between the other two). When I did a bit of research at that time, I tried several times to read about the Royal Canin but the website wasn't working properly and I couldn't access the veterinary diets for some reason. From the link you provided today, it does look like the ingredients are better in their kidney diets. And I think they were lower in fat than the k/d if I remember correctly. I need to check that more carefully.

I also need to go back through Glynda's post to see what other questions or concerns she mentioned that I need to address.

My little guy ate his chicken and rice again tonight. I wish it contained everything needed to feed all the time, and my worries would be over!

I think I am going to work on the reading tomorrow when my mind is a bit more refreshed. Thank you again for all of the help, I am so worried, and all of the support is so comforting. I have said it before, but I don't know what I would be doing without all of you.

Love and hugs,

Tina and Jasper

Tina, I'm so relieved to hear that your Grandmother seems to be settled down again. It's clear that you are just as kind and good to her as you are to Jasper!!

One thought that's come to me about our dietary questions is that if you wished, you could email Mary Strauss directly to ask her opinion as to what percentage of dietary protein would constitute a mildly or moderately reduced intake. She has written a similar article regarding lowfat diets for dogs prone to pancreatitis, and I emailed her directly with some questions about fish oil supplementation for my Peg (her email address is at the botton of the articles). To my surprise, she responded promptly! She openly admits she is not a vet, but as we all can see, she does cull the research in order to arrive at her recommendations. It is just a thought, but if you tell her Jasper's UPC result and situation, she might have some specific comments about percentages and also even fresh food additives that would be good in the event you stick with a highly restricted commercial food. If what she says makes sense to you, then you can run the recommendations past your own vet as you make your decisions.

Also, as you wade through the research links, bear in mind that I believe the recommendations re: protein restriction for dogs experiencing renal dysfunction are different depending upon the presence or absence of proteinuria. So even though protein restriction is no longer thought to be necessary or helpful in some situations, the recommendations are different when a dog is spilling a significant amount of protein in his/her urine.

My continuing best wishes to you!!
Marianne