Tipper - adrenal tumor/breathing issues

Patti,
I'm so sorry to hear about Chance. Hopefully he will be Ok and see the vet Monday.
Sending prayers for a good result for Tipper's ultra sound tomorrow.
Hugs for you.

Vicki:
Thanks for thinking of Tipper, and Chance I appreciate it. I will let you know how it goes tomorrow. Blessings
Patti

Tomorrow is going to go Very well. :) I'm going to hold on to that thought for you.
Poor little Chance, hopefully they can figure out what is going on with him on Monday.
Poor baby must be feeling pretty horrid when they do the hide behind the couch thing.

Hang in there Patty.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Hello there

Just wanted to post to let you know I am thinking of you both and will be tomorrow.

Good luck Tipper the Ripper, be a good girl

Big hug to you Patti, I have asked my angel Tia to look out for you both. Also hope they can help Chance on Monday

Love
Mel
Xxxxxx

Me too. Sending positive vibes and love, Kim

Me three!:D We are all right with you Patti. Sending healing energy your way.:p

Good Luck at tomorrow's Vet appt. I'll be thinking only positive thoughts for Tipper! Hope you are able to get some sleep tonight.

Barbara

Good luck tomorrow Patti!
I hope that Chance comes out of hiding, he must not be feeling well.

Hope everything goes well today. Thinking of you and Tipper and hope Chance feels better.

Everyone:
Thank you all so much for thinking of my Tipper and Chance. I am getting ready to take Tipper to the vets and God willing there is not going to be anything wrong that cannot easily be fixed. Thank you Mel I appreciate Tia looking after Tipper. Last nite Tipper slept ok not too many struggles to breathe. I have noticed the last 2 nites since she has had no Vetoryl that she is looking for more food after her bedtime nuggets. This morning at 5:00 AM she had a stomach ache like she used to get a long time ago. I had to take her out, get her some food and she was ok after the food got in her tummy, about 20 minutes later she went back to sleep. She gets up at 6 so that did not last long. I am hoping she does not get upset and quiver when we get to the Ultra Sound Place. Again thank you all for your continued support as this is a scary day for me. Blessings
Patti

Good luck today... will be thinking of you.

Popping in to let you know am thinking of you and Tipper today. Hope Chance has a good day too.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Right by your side, Patti. I know how scary this is but you and Tipper will be ok with whatever the outcome is. You are stronger than you think and can face anything that comes your way. And remember, you will never face anything alone. We are here for you all the way. I pray they find all is well.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Hi Everyone:
First of all thank to all of you for you tremendous help and support. As you know I have no one but this forum and I treasure you all. Tipper had her ultra sound and the following is what the Dr. told me.
Her liver has some nodules on it now, it is not enlarged. With the nodular pattern he feels they are benign nodular hypoplasia- hope I got all that correct. There were some darkened spots on her liver. The Dr. said the spots and nodules can be seen in older dogs regularly. The nodules would have to be biopsied to see if it was cancer. At this stage she cannot undergo something like that so what good is the biopsy? Maybe I am wrong and need some direction from you all.
He said if the pancreas cannot be seen that is usually a good thing as that means no pancreatitis. Hers could not be seen.
He said I was right about the Gallbladder she does have sludge so she has to be on Ursidiol. We talked and he said I can start her on some of my cats as it is only 60 mg and I told him I want on top of this immediately, as I know what it did to my cat and he stopped eating. I will order the correct dosage which may be 60 anyway. I just gave it to her at 10:45 and due to her history of being allergic to everything I am closely monitoring her for any allergic reaction.
The bad part I saved for last. He could only find one adrenal gland, and not the other. Either it has gone down so small because her cortisol is so low, or he saw a large circular object that could just be nothing or it could be her second adrenal gland that has absolutely blown up huge. I have to be truthful, my heart sank when he said this. He is going to have another Dr. review it, and they and my vet will talk to the Dr. at Dechra. The reason I am worried really right now is if that has ballooned up, she is off her Vetoryl right now until Sunday. Is this going to make it worse?? I have put in a call to Dechra and am waiting for a call back. Of course my vet is nowhere to be found. The Dr. said he will more than likely want a second opinion if the other Dr.'s don't know either. I take Tipper to Pgh. the 22nd for her eye appt. If that is the case I would have to pay for another ultra sound and see if my vet could get her an emergency appt. to get this done the same day so we don't have to make 2 trips. I am trying to stay calm, ad get this all handled asap.
My thought is if her cortisol is so low, how could the other adrenal gland get so large? What would cause this? I am hoping it is too small and he could not see it which would make more sense to me knowing how low her cortisol is and it has been controlled for some time now. She started the Vetoryl last August. Her last ultra sound was 10-12 and her adrenals had gone way down from the previous ultra sound. Does anyone else know what would cause an enlargement? I am going to wait for Dechra to call me and then I will post more of what they say. Oh, just a reminder Tipper has Pituitary Dependent Cushings not adrenal. God Bless You All and all you babies.
Patti

Well that was quick !! - So good news and possibly some bad, but wait until he gets the second opinion of the gland. You are on top of it now and you now know what you are facing. That's the good part. You will get it all sorted out I'm sure and continue doing the great job you are doing looking after both Tipper and Chance. I hope you can relax a little more and what do you want to bet unless the vet is a radiologist, he may have just looked at the x-ray incorrectly. It's happened to me actually only it was my body... not the dogs.

Well, all in all that sounds pretty good to me! The adrenal glands are notoriously hard to see even on an US - it isn't at all uncommon for folks to tell us they only saw one gland so don't let this get to you just yet.

The liver not being enlarged tells me that organ is not contributing to her breathing issues. I had wondered if perhaps it was so large it was pressing on her lungs so it is good to hear it is not enlarged. That removes another possible cause for the breathing. ;)

Hi Patti,
It's great you are back already. So glad to hear this was mostly good news..and well with a bit of a question about that adrenal gland. Wouldn't it be more likely that the gland was too small too see like the vet first mentioned? Isn't it true that the adrenals are often very hard to see because of their size and location? I would think if the gland was blown up that big there would be no doubt of what he was looking at and also Tipper's level would not be so low? Was he leaning to that explanation too?
Also- I'm asking because I don't know, but with Pit. Cushings wouldn't both glands show enlargement if they were swollen up? It wouldn't be that just one is big would it?
I hope the medication helps Tippers gall bladder and that she's feeling okay after a morning at the vet.

Barbara

Hi Everyone:
I am breathing a little easier now that Leslie had posted. She is right on as usual. Dechra just called back. They feel because of Tipper's low numbers that her adrenals should be real small. They said the left is easier to see than the right, and the right can hide behind the kidney at times. That made sense to me to as I thought they would be smaller due to her numbers. They said there can be adrenal tumors that grow, and this could be a possibility, but I don't think anything indicated that??? They said sometimes the bladder can throw a shadow over that way and that is what he could have seen. My girl was so uncomfortable because of her back legs having to be held, her little tongue sticking out and dry, and all she did was shake. I went and got her a wet towel and put it on her head and tongue, and that helped her a bit as she was over heating from nerves and Cushings. I squeezed a little water in her mouth and I could see it made her feel better. I will be very glad if the other Dr.'s don't think she needs another ultra sound, as I think she has reached her limit with all this crap, and I have to put a stop to all this anxiety for her own well being. I am praying it was hidden and he couldn't see it and that this is not a tumor on her adrenal gland. She is taking a well deserved nap at my feet. We are at 1 o'clock and no reaction to the Ursodiol thank the Lord! So she will be able to take it I assume, and get her alk phos and alt numbers down hopefully. I just want to stay inside today and hug my girl, and let her know how much I love her. Blessings
Patti

Hi Patti, Glad to hear everything went pretty well with the ultra sound.
Glad you could be with Tipper while they were doing it so you could make her more comfortable with the wet towel. Hopefully she won't have to get another one.
May I ask you to remind me what symptoms prompted you to get the US done?
I am curious about the sludge in the gall bladder. Scoop had a lot. Did they say how much Tipper had?
Also you mentioned your cat. He had sludge? You said you know what it did to him. What problems did he have? Any besides he stopped eating? So can sludge cause them to stop eating or be picky? I'll never know why Scoop got so picky with his eating and why he would only eat a small amount then go for a drink and then didn't want to eat for a while after that. The vets seemed baffled by it.

Does anyone know what causes sludge in the gall bladder?
Back in the beginning of March when Scoop saw the local IMS she put him on Ursidiol. He was on it about a month. If I remember correctly when he finished it I told his GP vet and she said to stop it. Boy something else to drive me crazy. Now why didn't I question her about it. UGH!
Sorry Patti. I kind of took over here briefly.
Hugs to you and Tipper.
Thanks

Vicki:
Sludge in the Gallbladder is caused when the fluid that would go thru the bile ducts becomes thickened. It settles in the gallbladder as a back up of sorts as sludge. Tipper had quite a bit, my cat did too. I could see Tipper's moving as he turned her to show me how it all falls to one place depending on how they lay. You give them the Ursodiol to change the viscosity of the sludge. You are essentially making it more fluid like so it can pass. My cat would not eat a thing, lost weight, slept all the time. I tempted him with every kind of food possible he would lick it and not eat. He got rail thin. After many times going after the vet to get something done for him, he consulted with another vet that figured it out. I finally had to result to Periactin. Believe it or not he still takes 1/4 of a pill several times a week to keep him eating. This is about 2 years later!. I can tell when he is starting to not feel well, his coat gets dull, he sleeps and if I don't give him part of a pill he won't eat. I knew just by Tipper's ALT rising that had always been good previously that it was her Gallbladder, but the vet took credit for it when he called Dechra!! I am the one who told him and told him I wanted an Ultra Sound. Tipper may have to have her dosage raised as I am giving her the cats 60mg which the Dr. today said was fine. I heard from Dechra that it is common for Cush dogs to get this. Remember Kenny and Gracie? His dog had a mucocele on her Gallbladder. God I hope she did not pass as we never heard from Kenny again. It is very likely Scoop could have had sludge also, that could be why he did not want to eat. Had he gotten an Ultra Sound I forget?? Did they ever check his Gallbladder? Hope you are continuing to try and heal your heart, I am still so sad for you, and cry when I think how much you loved dear Scoop. Blessings
Patti

Hi Everyone:
Just a brief update. Tipper has started to pant and drink a little more water so she will be back on the Vetoryl tomorrow morning at 20MG. They said to wait until Sunday, but she is starting to get real ansy and pant so I know her signs well enough to know she needs it. I will just have to be vigilant in watching her so she does not go back down too low. That is why I want to start in the morning. I hope the 20mg will be her dose for a while and that suppresses enough for her to be symptom free. I guess we will soon see if the UK study is correct in what they say. Blessings
Patti

Patti,
Yes, Scoop had an ultra sound done when he was first diagnosed with Cushings, end of last summer. Nothing was said about sludge then. He had an US done in Nov, March, in NY at the end of May for his Cyberknife consult and then again the morning of the day he passed away. Sludge was seen Nov, March and July 1 and each time it seemed like the sludge got worse. Not sure about the time in NY. That didn't have anything to do with the treatment. I'll have to check it out. The last time the IMS said he had ALOT. I'm wondering if the sludge could have been the cause of his picky eating. Was you cat picky or did he just stop eating all of a sudden?

Why Scoop's GP vet never had him continue with the Ursodiol I'll never know. If it would have helped the sludge and possibly his eating why wouldn't she have kept him on it? I'll never understand. No wonder I'm such a mess about what went on with Scoop. I miss him so much and then to think about all this. UGH! Scoop's IMS told me she didn't know if she would have ever been able to figure out why he wasn't eating. You'd think she would have thought about the gall bladder sludge. I am really starting to wonder what kind of vets I was dealing with. So frustrating and upsetting that maybe my Scoop wouldn't have had to have all these problems. I am really beginning to not like vets at all.

Does your cat still take Ursidiol?
Do you know what causes the fluid to thicken?
I wonder what causes cush dogs get this?
Thanks

So glad you spoke to Dechra and got positive feedback and facts about the adrenals. Sounds good for Tipper...poor girl had quite a day! Glad she's home getting your TLC. Meanwhile how's Chance doing today?

Hoping the returning symptoms fade again once you start the vetoryl back up. The drinking and the panting...those are Trixie's most prevalent symptoms too. Today we are having a pretty good day of drinking...not as bad as some. Guess these nice cool mornings we have had are very good for Cushings! Hate that it's supposed to be hot again next week. :mad:
Hope you, Tipper and the rest of your babies have a great weekend.

Barbara

Hi Patti,
All in all, a good ultrasound report.:) I hope Chance's news is good also. Xxxx

It sounds like the ultrasound appointment went very well. It doesn't make sense for one adrenal to balloon up unless the other one is completely shriveled and not working and Tipper was still producing a large amount of cortisol, which we know from her ATCH test is not happening. That makes Leslie's scenerio the most plausible one, which is that it is a shadow and the other, adrenal is in hiding. (Very normal on an ultrasound).
Glad you got the gallbladder medicine, that will take care of that issue and best to know about it now.
All in all, I'd say a decent day.
Hope Chance is holding his own over the weekend.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Hi Everyone:
Tipper was restless last nite and got up again at 4:30am with a stomach ache. Second day in a row. This morning I gave her the Ursodiol and 20mg of Vetoryl. I am watching her closely to make sure she has no signs of going low. They wanted me to wait until tomorrow to start her, but with the drinking, panting, and stomach aches I know she needs it now. Chance is hiding again behind the sofa and does not want to come out and eat. I am wanting Monday to hurry up and come as his appointment is then. I am guessing he will get some sort of steroid which I am not going to be happy about. Vicki my cat started out being picky with his food and as his ALT numbers climbed he stopped eating altogether. I have the hives from being so nervous about Tipper's ultra sound. I pray the other vets realize that the adrenal could not be seen, and that it was a shadow seen. I do not want to make her go thru this again, as I said yesterday she has had enough and is at her limit I can tell. The cost of all this has been staggering! Next week we have Laser treatment and the eye Dr. also blood pressure on Wednesday. So there we go with 3 visits again. Then we will be down to only once a week for blood pressure and weight. My vet actually gave me a compliment and said I was doing an excellent job with her. I thought to myself he sure isn't! Between the Ursodiol for the cat and Tipper and the Vetoryl I will be eating the jelly and applesauce I made. I need a windfall of some money some how. Don't we all though? As long as my babies are ok I don't care about anything else. Blessings
Patti

Patti,

maybe the vet complimenting you is a sign that he's coming around a bit? I hope so! Sometimes they need to eat a little crow before coming back down to earth.

Hives. Oh NO! I've had those before. What do you do to treat them?

Valerie:
You can just use anything that stops itching. I just basically leave them alone and they go away. It was nice here today not too bad with the heat. The humidity is probably hanging around waiting to come back though. That makes it tuff for Tipper to breathe. Even in the house if the air is not coming on she gets heated up. I have had to turn down my air conditioning this year because she needs it to be cooler. Got my electric bill- wow everything is so expensive. Hope you and Miss Daisy Mae have a good weekend, with no cat food now Daisy!
Blessings
Patti

Patti,
Benadryl helps itching from hives, but I'm not sure what other medications you are taking. It is generally considered safe but you might want to check with your doctor or pharmacist before trying it.
It does cause drowsiness, but in your case that might be good, at least you would get some rest. Xxxxx

We use a Benadryl cream on Stanley and that really helps. We have pills too, but don't use the pills with the cream since the cream seems to work. We have a Benadryl gel the gal gave us that brought Stanley, but we have not used that, it is a bit cooler.

Patti,

as luck would have it. I am super sensitive to Benadryl and can't use it.
It's been beautiful here the past few days with little humidity. I hope that it stays away for Tipper's sake.

Hi Everyone:
Tipper had a fair nite last nite with some breathing issues and wheezing, but not a lot. She got up at 6am today her regular waking hour. I was glad, and she had no stomach ache either. This is her second day on the 20mg of Vetoryl. She is not panting or looking for food, but did want some extra nuggets for a snack. I took her out on the porch for a while yesterday. While petting her I noticed a raised like area on her back right side up onto her back. I felt it and she doesn't have it on the other side. It is not a lump per say more like a 2'' area that feels like a big bump, like swollen. It is right above where her right kidney would be and this made me very nervous, because of the ultra sound and what the Dr. said. Tomorrow when I take Chance to the Vets I am going to have the him look at it. I will have a chance to grill him about Tipper then. I need to get these two straightened out before fall as I don't want to be traveling back and forth to Pgh. in bad weather with them. I am hoping her Vetoryl comes by Tuesday or I will have to buy some from the vet, which I do not want to do. Chance was not hiding this morning, but none the less had to be prodded into eating. I need to catch a break here as this is draining all the money I saved for Tipper. Blessings
Patti

Hi Patti,

I hope you can get some resolution for Chance tomorrow. I'll be waiting to hear how the appointment went. I know how worried you are about Tipper's adrenal gland. Hopefully the bump has nothing to do with that.


hugs

Dear Patti
thank you for your post. I know to we'll about the worry and finances.
I will pray for you,Tippy and Chance. Try to take care of yourself during all of this. It overwhelming and exhausting. I have no regrets for trying to safe my baby.
Hugs Sonja and Angel Apollo

Sonja:
Thank you for thinking of Tipper. I know you are having a hard time, and I understand completely how you feel. God willing it will get easier for you. Blessings
Patti

Hi Everyone:
I missed my morning post. I researched all weekend and talked to some vets. After doing so I decided to cancel Chance's appointment at the vet today, and have Tipper seen instead and use the time to talk her case over with my vet.
I made a discovery after calling back to my vets office on Friday and talking to the tech that handled Chance last week. After thoroughly interrogating her (very nicely) I came to a conclusion of what happened to Chance. The vet tech had tried several times to no avail to get blood out of Chance. In the process I surmised that she hit his muscle with the needle. This can cause a great spike in elevation in the CK. I went over this with my vet first thing when I got into his office. He told me I was absolutely right, and he was glad I thought of it. He offered in 2 weeks to redo the blood work for free. I told him I felt a disease process would present differently and be more gradual in the elevation, which he agreed again. He always does my cats himself, and because there was a critically ill dog needing attention, I begrudgingly let the tech do it. I made an agreement with him that he is the only one who will do the cats blood work form now on. Chance will be retested in two weeks by him personally.
Then onto Tipper's dilemma. I showed him the area sort of right above her flank where your kidney would be and he felt it. He said indeed it was a good observation on my part, but that it is a fat pad underneath the muscle. Cushings sort of took it's toll on the left one, but the right one was still intact therefore when comparing and feeling both, one seems highly exaggerated, and appears problematic, but is not.
Tipper will stay on the 60mg ursodiol for now. He wants to speak to a colleague that has done several articles on the nodules on dogs livers and see if he has any ideas we could use to benefit Tipper's situation. Until then I am to stay with the ursodiol as is, because I questioned him on the correct mg she should be taking as I know it is higher than my cat Lucky's, and she is using his pills for now as I just ordered more.
The bad part is we have to have a redo of the Ultra Sound with him present. Tipper has to be fasted, and possibly an enema. He explained that he had gone over her results with the Dr. and he said sometimes when a dog has eaten, things can show up that shouldn't and can look like other things. He said this should be a clearer picture of what is going on with the adrenals. I asked him if it turns out that her adrenal is swollen up that large is there any chance it would rupture??? He said no, and I was relieved as I was really concerned about that potential situation. If it is the right adrenal and it is swollen, I want to see if the left is shrunken down so much that it caused this. I was too stunned by all this to ask when at the US. So Wednesday at 8am we do it again and I am hopeful it gives a true picture, and I pray the right one is not that large object the Dr. showed me on the screen.
I also made some headway on the Vetoryl. I called the girl in my vets office that handles all the drug orders. The one that refunds me when they over charge me and I find out. She saw how cheaply I can get the Vetoryl for at Lambert she said she would match the price. So now I can get it there. This is great as I need some on Wednesday because my vets regular girl did not send Tipper's RX in to Lambert last week, and I would never get it in time now. None of these people do their jobs it is unreal! So now I can get it when I go there. What a relief. I got a lot of things taken care of with my vet visit and all.
So the synopsis is I am glad I relied on myself and my judgment again. I did not have to pay an office visit for my cat, and Chance is definitely ok with that as he hates to go there, and it is less stress. I got the problems solved about Tipper's lump, and the rest I will have to wait it out until Wednesday. to see about. Plus Chance gets his blood test free and that never happens in my vets office! We will see if he charges me for a second Ultra Sound, as it is not my fault he was not there to see this and it has to be repeated. I am not happy to put my girl thru this again, but we have to know what is going on for sure, as my vet will call and consult with Dechra's Dr. Fox. So on we go until tomorrow. Blessings
Patti

Wow! Sounds like a productive day! Good for you! I hope the new US is much clearer and brings you much needed relief from worry.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

A very good day all the way around it sounds like.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Thanks Leslie and Sharlene. I did the best I could, so I think it worked out ok. Blessings
Patti

Wow! I am impressed! You got a lot done in one visit! Way to go Patti!:D