Lena, Teacup Poodle w/ adrenal tumor - Lena is now an angel

Sharlene,

I've been meaning to ask you about elevated sex hormones. I see you mention that a lot and I was wondering what exactly it means. Just curious because of Gable, who may or may not have Cushings. He drinks a lot, but as far as I know, doesn't pee in the house (I hope I haven't been blaming the Puggle all this time if it was Gabe, but I don't think it is).

When we first heard of Cushings way back last year before we even suspected Lena had anything, it was because of Gable's hair loss on both sides of his rump. They tested and it came back fine, but of course I know now that that doesn't mean anything. He likes to rub against the boxwoods in the backyard, so I think it was because of that and it usually grows back in the winter as soft puppy-like fur. I put him on Melatonin for a while a few months ago and he hasn't lost any yet. But sometimes I wonder...he pants a lot, but he's a big dog (85-90lbs) and lately he seems to be a little unsteady, but he is going to be 8 and I don't know what he's mixed with...pretty sure there is Lab in there, but maybe Visla also, who knows.

I can't bear the thought, or the expense, of going through Cushings again! As soon as I have some extra money I'm going to have the vet do a complete blood workup, but I really don't want to know.

Anyway, my original question...what does elevated sex hormones mean when it refers to Cushings?

Hi Joan,

I started to try to type this on my ipad and gave up, too horrendously painful. LOL So, at the computer now.

In cushings, when a dog has normal cortisol levels, but has (and per my IMS) at least two other sex hormones elevated, they call this Atypical Cushings. Not all vets even agree that this exists, but Dr. Oliver at the University of Tennessee studied it thoroughly before his death (he was a great resource to k9 cushings here). We know that sex hormones elevations can cause some of the same sort of sypmptoms that are seen in cushings, hair loss, etc. So the test through University of Tennessee evaluates cortisol levels and the other sex hormones and if you have 2 or more elevated, this is then considered to be Atypical cushings.
The treatment is starting out on melatonin and lignans. I like the HMR lignans as they are more easily absorbed by the body. It takes about 4 months to see if there will be any improvement, but some have reported good results sooner. You don't treat and test with the traditional cushing meds which are for high cortisol because this doesn't exist in the atypical diagnosis. (cortisol levels are normal)
Now Gable could have this and you could try the melatonin and lignans. Or you Could have them do a blood draw and send it to the University of Tennessee which tests for it. Then you would retest if in fact there are elevations in about 4 months usually to see if they are responding.

If he is rubbing against the boxwoods though, then that is likely causing some of the hair loss you see. Has he been tested for allergies? That might be a place to start, or even better place is to check the thyroid as it too can cause the same symptoms.

I wouldn't go straight to cushings though. Definitely don't need another cushings diagnosis, but the main thing is to rule out more likely culprits first anyway.

Hope that helps.

Those adrenal glands produce cortisol plus 5 other adrenal intermediate steroids/sex hormones which are: 17-hydroxyprogesterone, estradiol, androstenedione, progesterone and aldosterone. Now, estradiol can be produced outside the adrenals, like in fat cells, hair follicles and the liver.

Those adrenal intermediate steroids/sex hormones can be elevated while the cortisol is not and this is known as Atypical Cushing's. Dog's with Atypical Cushing's generally have the same symptoms of a dog with conventional Cushing's.

Hope this helps.

Hugs, Lori

Thanks, Sharlene and Lori.. A starting point as soon as I have some money!

Joan, even tho your question brought me pain , I am so glad you asked the question on elevated hormones in dogs. The elevated hormone issue has bothered me for quite some time. I have searched a lot about elevated hormones in dogs, there effect on the dog and Atypical Cushings in dogs. Sharlene and Lori`s answers were of great interest to me. Thank you.

Yes, they are all so knowledgeable...I'm glad it helped you.

I know this should go in everything else, but I can't figure out how to start one.

Sibbie, who is now 7 months old, is getting spayed today and my husband has me on such a guilt trip about it that I am almost ready to cancel it. We are not going to breed her...so isn't it best to have her spayed??? He thinks she'll change and he doesn't want her hurt. I am sick to my stomach worrying that something will go wrong.

The only female we didn't spay when they were young, is his chihuahua, who we finally did when she was 11 after years of the mess and poor girl's confusion twice a year.

Thoughts???

Tell your hubby that breast cancer in dogs is horrible to watch - I've had two fosters who were not spayed and ended up with breast cancer. It is not pleasant for the dog nor their humans. How will he feel if blood starts pouring from her swollen nipples, or if it spreads to other organs including the brain which it did in one of mine, or if removing the tumors is only a band aid because they come right back even before the incisions have healed as they did in the other? What would more painful for that baby girl? Which would he rather watch? The vets that saw my babies all told me that their cancer was more than likely due to that failure to spay...my Trinket had not been spayed when I had to deal with the first case but she was taken care of not too long after being told the probable cause of Tasha's breast cancer. No way Trink was going to go thru what Tasha was if there was any chance of preventing it! Spaying removed a great deal of that risk for Trink.

I appreciate your hubby's compassion and desire not to allow any pain in Sibbie's world...but this little spay procedure is done and over and forgotten in days while breast cancer can go on and on and on. No comparison in my experience, none. ;)

Thank you! She is there now and I will just bite my nails all day long until they call. I really appreciate your response. I know it's the right thing to do, but when he starts with all his negativity, it blows my confidence to hell...

Well I know I am late checking in, but you can tell your hubby that my molly was spayed when she was about a year, after we got her from the rescue and once she recovered from the surgery she has been on the path of divine divahood every since.
I think your baby girl is going to be just fine and your hubby will wonder why he made so much fuss.
If I had to guess, he just can't stand the thought of her having surgery and being in any pain. Once this is past they will both be fine. :)