Raleigh, Archie, Gus

Marianne, Thanks. No, Gus had not had his rabies shot yet. We are waiting till he is 6 months old. Wish we would have waited till Archie was 6 months old.
I know you're right when you said there is no way to tell if the rabies shot caused these problems. The whole thing just seems so strange. This has been going on for 3 1/2 weeks with the diarrhea. I'm going along with what the vets are suggesting to do. It seems like the 2 vets have different opinions.

Do you know if anything can be done if the diarrhea issues are a long-term abnormality with his immune system? Boy, it scares the heck out of me.

I don't think I mentioned that I took Archie to the vet last Friday. There is a lump on his left eye lid. I had the vet check it out. She said there is one on the right one too. It's not as noticeable. She didn't know what they were.

She also said she does not want Archie on this prescription diet very long. The other vet put him on it.
She also did skin scraping of his lesions. The test for mites was negative and the test for, is it ringworm?, could take up to 2 weeks.

Another thing that has changed with Archie is his water consumption. He hardly drinks water at all any more. When Raleigh or Gus would be getting a drink Archie would be right there with them getting a drink. There were plenty of times he would get a drink even when the others didn't. Now he takes 1 or 2 little drinks a day. Last week when I said something to the vet he said he is getting plenty of water in his food, which last week was chicken and rice. Just makes me wonder why that has changed.


The lump by his eye has not gotten any better and I'm worried so we might make a trip to the vet. The man vet wants another stool sample done. He said the lab can miss parasites so he likes to do a couple of them. He also wants me to get an antibiotic for Archie's skin. I read that puppies shouldn't be on antibiotics because of their immune systems. Archie's already had antibiotics twice plus I person I spoke to at the vet's today about the Metronidazole said it has antibiotic in it. UGH!

Gus is doing good. His bouts with diarrhea usually don't last long. Right now it is pretty good.
His itching hasn't been a problem either.

Oh my goodness. If it isn't one thing it seems to be another. I'm hoping that some of this stuff they will outgrow as they get older. Puppies go through a lot it seems and maybe it is just taking a bit for the immune system to get caught up. Well, one can hope right.

You're doing good Vicki, trying to stay on top of all of this. It must be quite overwhelming and confusing trying to make head or tails out of what should be done to help these issues.

Hang in there.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Hi Sharlene,
Yes, it is overwhelming and confusing. Right now Archie is on Iams prescription diet, Intestinal Plus(formerly Low Residue),FortiFlora, Benadryl and Metronidazole. I just don't understand why he started with these problems all around the same time. His stools were so good before. Always nice and firm. The one vet did say the same thing you did. His immune system is trying to catch up. I sure hope it does and these problems go away.

Archie's results from his stool sample and urine test were both good. So we wait to see if the Metronidazole and the diet help him.
The vet said on Wednesday not to worry about the lump above Archie's eye. I can't help but worry because it is more noticeable than last week.

Hi Vicki,
I am sorry that I haven't gotten back to you sooner. I have been reading posts, but haven't been responding much lately.

You asked what questions I would ask the manufacturer of the rabies vaccine. I don't believe EVERYTHING I am told. I work special ED and the common language is lying, so I question EVERYTHING. Your vet said that he reported Archie's seizure to the manufacturer. Do you have any proof? Did your vet give you a form or copy of that correspondence? I would insist on reporting myself, so that I could be sure that the seizure actually was reported. I would ask how common seizures are following rabies immunizations. I would ask about other symptoms/side effects that have been reported and how often they occur. I would ask if there was a fund to help cover the medical expenses that occured as a result of vaccination side effects. I would ask about the dosage size for a small breed dog, since it's the same regardless of size. Basically, I would ask for clarification of anything I was unsure about and study links to research further. xxxxxx

Hi Kathy,
I haven't been here for a couple of days. Thanks for your response.
Those are great questions to ask. Once the holidays are over I'll see about calling.
Hope you and Rosie have a nice Christmas.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Archie has several issues and one I haven't mentioned is he sprays in the house. I told the vet about it and he said it is a behavior problem and when I catch him doing it I should pick him up and yell NO, then try to take him outside. Most of the time I don't catch him doing it but I know it is him. It has been getting worse. If anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate hearing them. I don't know what to do.

Hi Vicki,

Regarding the peeing in the house..... You have it harder because you have three, including one other pup. Archie may need to be leashed and with you (or someone) whenever he's in the house. When someone can't be right there, a small crate can be helpful. They tend not to want to soil their dens, so crate training can be very effective. Take him out often and encourage him to pee, then over praise him. Make him feel wonderful when he's successful. You mentioned his other health issues. Could he possibly have a UTI or other issue that is making it difficult to hold his urine? How long has this been going on. If from the beginning, he may never have fully gotten the idea of where it's appropriate to relieve himself, so you might have to start again at the beginning with the basics. I'm sure others will be along with more suggestions. I am sorry you are having these problems. Xxxxx

Kathy, I'll answer you about the spraying next time. I don't have much time right now.

I have another question. Archie does not drink much water. This started around the time he started with the diarrhea. The last time at the vets I mentioned it. The vet said he's getting enough water in his food. Lately I only see Archie drink maybe once a day and it's not a lot. All this stuff is really driving me crazy and worrying me! Any suggestions?

You might be able to entice him to drink more by offering him a little diluted chicken broth (mostly water) a few times a day. He might not like it cold. Try warming it to room temperature. Does he like ice cubes? Rosie loves them. She comes running whenever she hears the freezer door open. Buddy wouldn't touch them. You could try that. Filling Kongs and freezing them is good too. Does it seem like he's not getting enough fluids because our Cush babies drink a ton of water? Rosie drinks like a camel. She'll drink a lot, then not for several hours. I think they are all different. Did the vet say that Archie appeared dehydrated? You certainly have your hands full. xxxxxx

Hi Kathy,
Thanks for the suggestions. I will give them a try tomorrow.
I'll talk about the spraying another time. I am getting worried about his lack of drinking. He saw the vet a couple of weeks ago. The vet said at that time he was not dehydrated. He told me he is not worried because he eats canned food which has water in it. This started back around the time when he started with the diarrhea weeks ago. Everything all around the same time.
He hacks like there is something in his throat. He just did it a few minutes ago and he did it a couple of times. It sounds horrible. Scares the crap out of me. He made that sound right before he had his seizure. I sure wish I knew what the heck is going on with him. I worry so much about him. There is just so much going on.
Before all this started whenever Gus or Raleigh would get a drink, Archie would get a drink with them. I have tried to give him water out of my cup but he won't drink any. It's just so strange how it changed when he started having all these other issues.

Kathy,
Thanks for answering me.
Regarding Archie's peeing, he goes out many, many times. He lifts his leg so many times and sometimes nothing comes out. He can go in the house and in no time he sprays. A lot of the times it's in the area where Raleigh is. He doesn't do it everyday. He had accidents in the house where would pee when he was younger but now it's just spraying. A couple of weeks ago when he was at the vet, they checked a stool sample and a urine sample. The vet told me it's a behavior problem. I don't remember exactly when it started but it was somewhere around the time everything else went wacky.
Archie and Gus each have their own crates and they go in there when we go out. He has not had an accident in there. He can also hold it at night. Last night before we went to bed he went to the door. He had to go out. When he had diarrhea he would go to the door so he knows to go out. Just so many issues.

Kathy,
I tried putting beef broth in some water for Archie. He just sniffed it and didn't drink any. I didn't want to use chicken broth because I still have the thought that he might be allergic to chicken.
He did lick an ice cube and tried to bite it.

Hope you're feeling better!

Here is the million dollar question? ARE ARCHIE AND RALEIGH NEUTERED? If not, I would bet that the spraying problem is a guy thing and neutering Archie would definitely help. Intact males have a very high level of testosterone and have a very strong need to mark their territory. That would make sense that he'd feel the need to mark in the area that Raleigh is. Hopefully others will chime in on this, but that's my theory. I have seen it before. If both are neutered, then that blows my theory.

Yes, stay away from the chicken broth if you suspect an allergy. Archie doesn't need more issues. Poor little thing. Xxxx

Kathy,
Raleigh is neutered, Archie is not.
I asked the vets if neutering Archie would help the spraying and they both said NO. Just the other night I read on Veterinary Partners website that it would help. I was thinking after the holidays were over that Archie would get neutered but the one vet thinks we should wait. He said that the issues Archie is having are because his immune system hasn't matured. I think the rabies shot played havoc with his immune system. The vet says to wait on the neutering to help his immune system. I didn't know testosterone had anything to do with the immune system. Archie will be 7 months old on Jan. 6so there isn't a rush for getting him neutered.

When I was growing up, we had a male dog named Spot. He was intact. We ended up taking another intact male dog in because the owner was being transferred oversees and couldn't take him. Spot had been housebroken for many years and started spraying in the house after Snoopy arrived. We finally had to rehome Snoopy. Neutering wasn't routinely done in those days.

I am not a vet, but I still think Archie's spraying is tied up with marking. As far as neutering now, Archie has other health concerns that do need to be considered, as neutering is surgery. He does have a weakened immune system. I agree with your vet on that one. Xxxx

Happy New Year Vicki- Raleigh, Archie and Gus and Angel Scoop

I hope this year is a better one than last year.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Thanks Kathy and Sharlene.

Happy New Year to you both and your families.

Popping in to give some of my humble advice. As you might know, I do pug rescue and have for years. :)

Pugs are funny little creatures, and have many quirks!

I definitely recommend getting Archie neutered as soon as you can, when its safe for him. As he is 7 months now, his hormones are really going to start coming in, and the marking could get worse. Pugs are notorious for this, and it is sadly one of the biggest reasons we get male pugs surrendered. The sooner the better too, so you can stop him ahead of the game from developing any humping habits. We usually neuter pugs between 6 and 9 months, if we can. I think a lot of vets don't really care about spay/neuter, especially some long-time vets.

That said, you might try an immune boosting supplement to help build up his immune system. B Naturals makes a good one.

Dogs that are fed raw, dehydrated, or even canned foods usually drink much less because they are not working to rehydrate their bodies from the dry kibble. Unless he is showing signs of dehydration, I would probably not worry too much. You can add more water to his food before serving it, which will force him to drink the water as he eats the food.

Pugs can be quite sensitive to vaccinations, and many pug owners will administer a benedryl before getting shots. My own pugs have had reactions too, so I really feel for your guy on this one.

Also, he is quite young... but, you might have his soft palette & trachea looked at, if he seems to be hacking or having trouble breathing.

Renee,
I appreciate your advise. Thank you.
I sent you a visitors message.

I took Archie to the vet's on Friday. I had a lot of questions and I wanted a bump on his head checked out and the Pustules on his face have gotten worse. It has been bugging me ever since he had blood work done after his seizure and his white blood cell count was high. Then with all his problems I have been wondering about his count. The vet did a complete blood work.
His total WBC count has gone up even more. The Lymphocytes have come down slightly but are still high and the Monocytes are high.
Creatinine Kinase is high 380 Ref Range 10-200 U/L
Glucose is high 115 63-114 mg/dl
Calcium is high 11.3 8.8-11.2 mg/dl
Phosphorus is high 7.9 2.5-6.1 mg/dl
TCO2(Bicarbonate) is high 30 13-27 mmol/L
Chloride is low 107 108-119 mmol/L
WBC is high 19.6 4.9-17.6 K/uL
Lymphocyte is high 7644 1060-4950 /uL
Monocyte is high 1764 130-1150 /uL

The vet doesn't know why his count is up so she wants me to take Archie to see an IMS.
I am so scared.

Oh no Vicki! Poor little Archie. I wonder what on earth is going on with him. Maybe some of the others will have some idea. I wonder if there is an infection somewhere.
hopefully the IMS can figure out what is going on.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

I am so sorry Vicki. All of this has been going on much to long with Archie. I'm glad you had his bloodwork done. Some of the numbers could indicate an infection somewhere, particularly with the pustules on his face. Has he been on antibiotics, I don't remember. I hope the IMS can get it figured out. Poor Archie. He is still just a baby. :o xxxx

I was thinking it could be a liver shunt, because some of his symptoms could be attributed to that, but... the bloodwork doesn't really support a liver shunt.

An IMS is a good idea.

Wish I had more to offer. But I will be sending my strongest puggie vibes that Archie is okay, and if they find anything, that it will be easily managed.

Oh Vicki, I am so sorry that Archie continues to have these problems. At this point, though, I do think it is a good idea to take him to see the IMS, both for Archie's health and for your own peace of mind. Being the supreme worrier that I am myself, I know what a toll it takes when you just don't know what is happening. Hopefully the IMS will be able to shed some light on things and organize a treatment plan that will start setting things right again for Archie. Please let us know as soon as you find out anything.

Sending tons of hugs,
Marianne

This whole thing is just really getting to me. Today I screamed. Archie would not eat his dog food at lunch time. Between the diarrhea, him having to see an IMS and then not wanting to eat at lunch just reminded me of what Scoop went through. It was around this time last year that Scoop became picky with his eating. Archie did eat the food for his supper but he has never been like this before. He would always be so anxious for his food. Jumping at the kitchen cabinet. This is driving me crazy with worry.

Does anyone have pet insurance?
If so, what company?

I had been wanting to check into it since Archie and Gus came here but looking at everything just seemed so overwhelming that I procrastinated. Now I wish I would have taken it out right from the beginning. I never thought this would be happening to Archie at such a young age. I just thought I had time to do that.

Kathy, Archie was on antibiotics when we first got him for his kennel cough and then again the day he had his seizure they did blood work at the emergency hospital and his white count was up so she put him on an antibiotic in case he had an infection but it didn't make a difference in his white count because it was checked after he was done with the antibiotics. The vet said something about antibiotics for the pustules but then didn't put him on it. She also said he could go on antibiotics for Lyme disease just in case but he was tested for Lyme disease on Friday and it was negative.

Would antibiotics be bad for his immune system?

The one vet thinks all of Archie's problems are because his immune system, as he put it, has not caught up yet. That it needs time but that wouldn't be why his blood work is off, right?

Marianne, I am a supreme worrier myself.

Thanks everyone for your support and caring.

Oh Vicki, none of this us fair. Archie should be running, pouncing and playing like other pups his age. I hope you are able to get him in to see an IMS soon. Sorry, I don't have health insurance, so I can't help with that. Archie has something going on, that's for sure. He needs to see someone who can figure it all out. I know that you are worried. I would be too. xxxx

Hey Vicki.

So sorry to read Archie is still having issues, I know nothing about the tests or insurance over there so just popping in to give you a big hug

Mel
Xxxxx

Kathy, There are days when Archie and Gus run around pretty much, like yesterday. Now this morning it is opposite. They played a bit but then Archie laid on my lap for a bit then played a bit. Both are sleeping now. Not energetic like yesterday.
I should be talking to his vet today or tomorrow. She only works Thursdays and Fridays. She called me from home on Monday with the test results and those were given to her over the phone from the vet's office. I told the office manager the other day to have the lab look at his blood on a slide or whatever it is they do. They did it last time he had it checked and the lab said they felt his white count was up because of his rabies shot. I should hear the results today or tomorrow.

I am just so worried about all of this.

Mel, So nice to hear from you. I hope you are well. Is Boyce doing OK?
I think about you lots. Hugs

Vicki,
Thinking about you and hoping that little Archie is all better soon. ((((HUGS))))

Belinda, Thank you.

Vicki,
How is Archie doing? have you taken him to the IMS yet? xxxx

Lately Archie has been giving me a hard time with eating his dog food. At first I thought it was because he was on the prescription diet and he was getting tired of it. I started switching him over to Gus' food and I couldn't mix the two slowly because he refused to eat the prescription food at all. Then he got picky with the puppy food. I tried different ones. It all reminded me of how Scoop was with his eating. It is so hard. Tonight for supper I gave him a food he had eaten the other day. He wouldn't eat it. I opened another kind and he started eating that one. He wanted more so I gave him more. This evening he started smacking his lips and I wondered if his tummy was bothering him. All of a sudden he vomited twice and two big piles. A couple hours later I took him out and he pooped. It wasn't a lot but it was smelly. What is going on with my Archie!

The food thing is very hard when you have three. With one, they will usually eventually eat whatever you give them when they get hungry enough. With three, staying on an RX diet is hard because they smell different food and want that. You did cut out Archie's snacks, didn't you? If he's not getting any treats, he's bound to be hungrier. That means nobody gets any treats. I know that sucks, but Archie knows if he's missing out on something. I hope you're able to get him to the IMS soon. He needs to be seen with a new perspective. Poor little guy. Xxxxx

Hi Kathy,
We must have been writing at the same time.
I had the lab do a pathology review on Archie's blood. The vet called me Friday and she said they didn't find anything. I have a copy of the review but boy I sure don't understand what it says. At the end they say about Monocytosis and what could cause it. The whole thing is confusing. The vet says that the pathologist didn't find anything but I said there is something going on. She didn't think it was urgent to see the IMS. I want to get him there. This is so worrisome. I want to call tomorrow and get an appointment for next week. The vet thinks it will be OK. I took insurance on Archie and Gus. I know it won't pay for pre-existing conditions but you never know what comes up. The insurance starts on the 21st. So I was thinking of going then but after tonight I am not sure about what to do.
He was getting some treats made with the prescription food. I baked some and gave him some frozen. I just started giving him some Puppy treats and carrots.

I was wondering if I should call the vet tomorrow and tell them about the vomiting.

The vomiting might just be due to the fact that you have been switching foods, but it won't hurt to let the vet know. If it continues, then definitely alert the vet. I would want an IMS to see Archie if he was my dog, for peace of mind, if nothing else.

Please post the pathology report, high and lows. We have a few people who can interpret that stuff. Sorry, it's not me, but others can. It could help.

I am so sorry to hear that Archie is still having trouble. :o xxxxx

Kathy,
The vet said that she is sending Archie to the IMS for me. She knows how worried I am. She doesn't seem to be but Archie is my puppy and I see how he changed and I love him with all my heart. I need peace of mind which I am afraid I may never have. I hope I will but I am such a worrywart. I posted the blood work highs and lows on 1/7. The pathologist report is a written report. I'll see if I can write it in a day or two. It is pretty long. I want to google some of the tings on it right now.

Thanks for being here.
Hugs to you and Rosie.

Vicki:
I am so sorry you have not found out how to get Archie turned around with his health issues. I know this has to be heart breaking for you after all you have been thru. I applaud you for now taking up the fight for Archie, you have more strength than you gave yourself credit for. Thank you for always looking in on my Tipper. She must undergo 3 specialists on Wednesday so please pray for her. Blessings
Patti