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I am going to wait for Leslie and the others to chime in as they know more about some of the natural things, but I wouldn't be adverse to trying it at all. No place to get it in the states? I wonder if Trish knows something about it, she's in New Zealand.
How exciting. So do you have some links? Wanna read it too. LOL
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
This is the first I've heard about Manuka Honey, but here's an interesting link to an article on WebMD that talks about its healing properties when used on the skin. And yup, looks as though there are several outlets for it here in the U.S. :)
http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/m...medicinal-uses
Marianne
Looks like they have it on amazon.com but I guess you'd want to make sure that you were getting the right one that has the properties that are needed for Peety's skin.
It does sound like it could be beneficial, won't break the bank to try at least.
huggers,
Sharlene
Thanks guys, I worry sometimes that you guys think I'm nuts. But I honestly believe that there are ways to treat without chemicals and toxins. I have read so many links, including WedMD and it's all positive. Even saw pictures of some amazing results. And no, I am not so gullible to believe everything, but I have read from some reliable sources. Dr. Oz usually doesn't jump on a band wagon unless he is 100% sold. And WebMD is a very reliable source. Yes, there are places in the US, just trying to find the right place. Want to get a medical grade that has a UMF(Unique Manuka Factor) of at least 15. I even found a receipe for a facial :)
The video I watched with Prof. Molan was very compelling and it obviously has been his life's work to bring this amazing product and it's medicinal properties to the forefront. I am excited and I don't think it was an accident. I was praying all day that God would reveal something to me. (I was really depressed earlier, scared really). I came home determined to find something. I kept looking at Peety through my tears and I just promised him I would find something. When I found that link, I was so excited I told him I found something. He looked at me like...I have a crazy mom :) I'll see if I can post the link to Prof Molan. It's very encouraging. I'm excited for Peety, but hey, it has great potential for ending up in my medicine cabinet too. Thanks for not thinking I'm crazy. Hugs..
Pat Peety's#1 fan
youtube has the video for Dr Oz as well as Prof Peter Molan. Google Manuka honey for wound care. There's so many great things it is used for.
awwww, no way, we don't think you are crazy at all. If you're crazy, then so are the rest of us, so guess we're all in good company. ;)
I think it sounds very positive and if it helps Peety then that is even better. Hey I might try it to, I could use a good facial sometimes too. Let me know what you find. I'll check out youtube later on. I did watch a couple earlier tonight, but didn't put in wound, just put in manuka honey.
We're always willing to learn something new here. Anything that can help is good to know.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Manuka Honey is GREAT for many things! I don't understand exactly the difference between the Manuka and raw/local honey or commercial honeys but there is something different about it for sure. The herbalists and holistic folks I deal with rave about it and have used it in a variety of situations with success. Those that did not succeed, weren't worsened by the honey. Believe it or not, honey is one of the things used to make herbal medicines. Certain herbs can be added to honey for extraction then the honey strained and used. Those made with Manuka Honey are apparently more potent than any other honey. Honey is also added to herbal alcohol preparations to make Elixirs and again the Manuka seems to make more potent potions. ;)
I would certainly try it! If it doesn't help, you have a great sweetener for your teas at the very least. :)
I am depressed and disturbed and distraught.... The results were positive. At least that was what the Dr. concluded. I don't have the test results, but he said something about a range of something that should be no higher than 16 and his was 20. Again I don't know what that was. I was wondering how conclusive the test was based only on a 2 hour test. I was expecting more testing. Anyway, having said that....he still believes I should go to UF. And he admitted he has not had alot of Cushing dogs in his 43 yrs of practice. I asked, if I did that, would he still see him for the maintenance stage. He was somewhat vague. After talking for a while, he "wished me luck". He wished me luck!!! and what the heck does that mean? Is he done with us? Is he unable to even treat him if UF does all the work? I was fighting back tears because now the only person who has at least a working knowledge of Peety's case has now told me "good luck" with whatever you decide to do. Geeze!!! I am not believing this. I also told him about the Manuka honey and he did agree that it does have amazing medicinal properties. But by now I am not impressed because I was the one who did all the research and I now know I don't have to have him approve of it. He said UF may decide to do all their own test, which is probably the case, which means whatever he did is a mute point.
What a disappointing day. I was at work when I got the call and so I choked back tears all day until I could be home with Peety and my own thoughts about what happened. I know I need someone locally that can see him when he needs to be seen for whatever the reason is. Preferrably someone with a tad bit more knowledge in this area. If I go to UF, I may get answers but I can't run back and forth to Gainesville when Peety has a flair up. I am more disappointed with the Dr, than I am the diagnosis and that's pretty bad. If I go to another Dr locally I am sure they will want to do all their own test, and that's just more $ that still has not produced a treatment plan for Peety.
Well, I ordered the Manuka Honey and I am hoping to have it by the weekend. I can't see how it wouldn't work, but I know I need to get to the real reason his skin continues this unrelenting nightmare.
HELP HELP HELP!!! I have to make good decisions. I have to!!!! You guys are so supportive and you have seen and heard it all I am sure. So I would love to hear any thoughts. Thanks heaps....
Pat Peety's #1 fan
Okay, sweetie, you need a great big super group hug and I'm here to start it!
so... GROUP HUG
Okay, now you're on a good road with the manuka honey, so that is something to start out with.
The next thing you need to do is make an appointment to "talk" to the vet and make sure that they know that you will need copies of all test results for Peety going back (how long ago did this start? however long that is) I asked for 2 years for my molly, but it can be whatever you want it to be. Discuss with him thoroughly what all the test results seem to mean and if he is going to be comfortable treating Peety for regular things, and is does he feel okay about doing any tests at the intervals suggested by UF.
That will at least let you have a face to face with him and see where he stands. I do get that the "good luck" is equivalent sounding of "good bye" and if you do not want to talk to him, then still you need to call the vet office and tell them you will be coming by to pick up his entire folder copy with all test results because you'll need it going forward.
Come home and then type out high/low abnormal results with range given. We will look over the test with you. No worries there.
Now if you do not want to try with this vet, you have two options.
1) One is to go to UF first, with the copy of his file in hand, and let them do their tests and ask for a recommendation to a local vet that they have worked with previously.
2) The other is to call around and find a vet who has worked with UF and is familiar with cushings.
Okay, you have some homework and yes, this totally sucks, but at least he told you first before heading into something he isn't comfortable treating and making an error. (the positive way to look at it)
You are NOT alone, never, ever, when you have us. I know it seems like it, but you aren't. We are going to get this figured out.
Now, back into the GROUP HUG there you go.
Hang in there. You CAN do this.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Maybe it was just a "good luck" for trip to IMS. I hope so, otherwise that is very poor form on his part. I bet you cannot wait until you see the specialists to get to the bottom of this
We grew up here in NZ eating Manuka Honey on our toast!!
It has turned into quite an industry for beekeepers. I did a quick search and found this article which I hope helps. I know some health care professionals including in wound care do use it at times. Worth a shot I would think, hope it goes well for Petey and helps his skin
http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/handle/10289/7459
Thanks Sharlene and Trish, I feel better knowing I am not alone. I will get over this disappointment because my lil guy does not have time for me to be depressed.
I will call tomorrow and get all the records and then I will relay everything I know so far. I am researching Holistic Dr.'s in this area. I would much rather find someone local that has experience with Cushing's. And I also found a vetinary Hospital in this area that I plan to check out. Tomorrow is a new day and everytime I look at him I know what I have to do.
Thanks for being there, you saw past my depression and anger and got right down to the important questions. Us fur-mommies that are new to Cushings, need all the wisdom that is found in this wonderful community. Thanks again...BIG HUG back.
Pat Peety's #1 Fan
That vet has no business treating Peety anyway! I really want to say something unkind here, but I am going to fight my urge to do it.:(
I know it's hard finding an IMS and switching doctors. I still haven't done it myself! My vets are now doing what I want according to guidelines because I have worn them down,;) but I still need to babysit them to make sure they treat Buddy properly. That means going and staying anytime Buddy gets any treatment or tests done. You will be better off with a vet who knows more about Cushings.
Sending you and Peety big hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
Hey Pat, praying the honey works wonders for Peetys skin, we are here for you, sending hugs too....
Good luck today Pat. I am sure you will find someone in your area to treat Peety. It seems like we are the ones that have to make the decisions and find the information about our furbabies. I know it has been like that in my case and I have 3 vets. You are doing a good job with Peety by finding all the information that you can and it seems like the people on this forum know more about Cushings than the vets. I am sure the University will give you the info you need and then you can decide if there is someone in your area that can treat Peety. You will do great and Peety is so lucky to have you. Love, JoAnne
HUGS
Last nite I read your post and got so angry at that vet! :mad: What a crock to just throw up his hands and give up right in your face! :mad: He's a wimp and doesn't deserve you and Petey! ;)
I had to look up Black Skin Disease and did so with trepidation because the name sounds just awful but come to find out it is Alopecia - a condition that causes the loss of hair. I have a friend who got Alopecia when she was in her early 20's and lost every hair on her body. She had straight, thick, coal black hair, black eyelashes and eyebrows, and dark body hair when this happened. She was totally hairless for about 15 years - then one day she noticed fine blond hair on her arm. Her hair regrew all over but it was nothing like her original hair - she now has thick, curly, dishwater blond hair, blond eyelashes and eyebrows, blond body hair.
It seems that melatonin is used to help regrow hair in pups so you might look into that - I know it made Squirt's hair and nails grow like mad but she didn't have Alopecia. It also seems, knocking around upstairs in my fragile memory bank, that Trilo also helps with this. These would be somethings to discuss with his NEW VET. :D
I hope you are good and angry this morning and put that anger to good use in finding a new vet for Petey. ;) There is NO doubt in my mind that he has one of the best moms around and I know you are going to put on your battle gear and go to war for him today. ;) Remember, we are all by your side.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
Hey Pat
Hope you and Peety are ok. You will get through this, we are all here for you
Big hug, kisses for the little man
Mel
Xxxxxxx
Checking in on you and Peety. How did today go?
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Big hugs to all of you...
Today was not as productive as I had hoped. I spent last night looking for possible new Vets to call and "interview". I called my vet today to get them started on getting all the records together. They were out, I suppose, never did reach them, so I will try again tomorrow.
I found a local organic store that had the Manuka honey I wanted so I went out and got that. I am now in the process of tearing up sheets for bandages. He's gonna look like a mummy when I get done with him, I just know it. I talked myself out of doing it tonight because....don't laugh...I thought what if he were allergic to the honey, you know how some people are very allergic to bee stings. So I decided I would wait untiI tomorrow so I can monitor him. Tonight a bath in Hibiclens and a nice masssage. Tomorrow we will get down to some sticky business.
I have to tell you, I am so blessed that I found all you guys. You all have been through your share of "stuff" with your lil fur-babies. And I know how much you all care. I can't thank you enuff, but I will keep trying. For now, consider yourself hugged:)
Pat Peety's #1 fan
(((HUGS))) back atcha!!
Hugs from me too, I have never heard of anyone being allergic to honey... but I guess there must be! Hope he goes ok being bandaged up. Might feel a bit funny being all sticky and if he is anything like my dog he would try and bite the bandage off and I am pretty sure if he got the taste of honey he would love it and lick all the more!!! I like how you said we have all been through 'stuff' with our doggies, because all that collective experience is what I think makes this the best website on the net! Will be checking in tomorrow to see how the honey wrap goes :) Be a good boy Petey and no licking! :)
You must have heard me typing to you as I see your little green light just came on :) Hope your not up at some ungodly hour (not sure where you are located!) I will be quiet now shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :D:D
Nope it is true. I read that if you are allergic to bee stings then you Can have a reaction to honey. I don't think it is common though, but still I'd put a tiny bit on and wait and see how he does and if nothing occurs, then mummy here we come. hmm, maybe you should watch a good mummy movie together tonight and laugh at the similarities. Something very dorky!
Remember if one day is not as productive as you might have wished, there is always tomorrow. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
LOL I will get the results of the blood work this aft. Get this, More salt in my wounds....I found out my Vet is on vacation for the next 2 weeks...Well, I hope he has a gr8 time and don't eeeeven think of us... because WE ARE JUST FINE...thank you very much.....
I don't really think there will be a problem with the honey, but better safe than sorry. Gotta cover all bases. Don't think he will be able to lick it off, the worst place I am starting on is his neck(top side) and his side. And I plan to cover it really good. Maybe I can mask the sweet smell. The nabor dogs may wanna get close and get some "sugar". I got him some Omega3. The way I see it, is, he ain't gonna have any choice but to get better....I'll post the results this aft.
Stay tuned........ Peety's#1 fan
Yes, Buddy is allergic to bee stings. No surprise there!!! I was told not to give him honey because of it. I would follow Sharlene's advice and test a very small area first. I would leave it on for several hours. Sometimes it takes a while before an allergen reacts. If all goes well and you wrap mummy pooch, post a photo. We would all love to see it!
Hugs,
Kathy and Buddy:cool:
They can still give you copies of his file, even if your vet is on holiday. You just won't be able to have that person to person chat with him. Did you ask them to go ahead and make copies of everything that the vet has recommended that you go to UF and that you'll want a copy to take with you. ;)
Oh yes, Kathy is right. We want mummy Peety pictures!!!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
They would not give me his medical records without the Dr signing off on it. They gave me the blood test results, taken in January. The first one is the test done on Monday.
Test requested 5/15/2013
Cortisol Serial 2 (ACTH) Results Reference Range Units
Time 1 8:20A
Time 2 9:47A
Cortisol Sample 1 3.2 1.0-5.0
Cortisol Sample 2 20.2 8-17
Hyperadrenocorticism (HAC): Post ACTH results greater than 20 ug/dl are consistent with HAC
Note: ACTH results should always be interpeted in light of clinical signs. False positive results may occur with stress or non-adrenal illness. In addition, exogenous steriods may be measured by the assay and result in falsely elevated cortisol levels. Because of wide variability, resting (basal) cortisol should be used to rule-out or diagnose HAC
Iatrogenic Hyperadrenocorticism: Resting cortisol is usually between 1-5 ug/dl with little to no increase in the post-ACTH cortisol level.
Hypoadrenocorticism(HOC): Resting cortisol is usually subnormal(less than 1 ug/dl) or low normal with no increase after ACTH
Blood test done 2/12/2013
Total Protein 6.9 5.0-7.4 g/dl
Albumin 2.8 2.7-4.4 g/dl
Globulin 4.1(high) 1.6-3.6 g/dl
A/G Ratio 0.7(low) 0.8-2.0 ratio
AST(SGOT) 29 15-66 U/L
ALT(SGPT) 30 12-118 U/L
ALK Phosphatase 143(high) 5-31 U/L
GGTP <5 1-12 U/L
Total Bilirubin 0.2 0.1-0.3 mg/dl
Urea Nitrogen 43(high) 6-31 mg/dl
Creatinine 1.6 0.5-1.6 mg/dl
Bun/Creatinine Ratio 27 4-27 ratio
Phosphorus 4.6 2.5-6.0 mg/dl
Glucose 116 70-138 mg/dl
Calcium 10.0 8.9-11.4 mg/dl
Corrected Calcium 10.7
Magnesium 1.4(low) 1.5-2.5 mEq/L
Sodium 146 0139-154 mEq/L
Potassium 4.6 3.6-5.5 mEq/L
Na/K Ratio 32
Chloride 107 102-120 mEq/L
Cholesterol 340(high) 92-324 mg/dl
Triglycerides 62 29-291 mg/dl
Amylase 11809(High) 290-1125 U/L
Lipase 77 77-695 U/L
CPK 128 59-895 U/L
WBC 16.3(high) 4.0-15.5
RBC 5.6 4.8-9.3
Hemoglobin 13.1 12.1-20.3
Hematocrit 36 36-60
MCV 64 58-79
MCH 23.4 19-28
MCHC 36.4 30-38
Platelet Count 530(high) 170-400
Platelet EST Increased adequate
Differential Absolute
Neutrophils(high) 13040 2060-10600
Lymphocytes 1793 690-4500
Monocytes(high) 1304 0-840
Eosinophils 0 0-1200
Basophile(high) 163 0-150
Urinalysis
Color yellow
Apperance Cloudy clear
Specific Gravity 1.013(low) 1.015-1.050
ph 6.0 5.5-7.0
Protein 2+(high) Neg
Protein
Urin protein: creatinine ratio testing is recommended(if the sediment is inactive) to help determine the clinical significance of proteinuria
Glucose Negative Neg
Ketone Negative Neg
Bilirubin Negative Neg-1+
Blood trace Neg
WBC None 0-3
RBC None 0-3
Casta None seen
Crystals None seen
Bacteria None seen none
Squamous Epithelia 0-1 0-3
Urine Microalbumin
Microalbuminurie >30 (High) <2.5
The MA is greater than 30 mg/dl indicating overt albuminuria APC ratio suggested to quantify the proteinunia
Microalbuminuna(MA) usually indicates compromise of the glomerular barrier and is a significant finding when it is persistent(2 or more positive results obtained 2 or more weeks apart) Persistent MA, in the majority of pets is due to renal injury secondary to other systemic disease or primary renal disease. Systemic diseases associated with persistent MA include inflammatory disease, chronic infections, metabolic disease(e.g. hypertension, Cushings Syndrome, diabetes mellitus, hyperthyroidism) and neoplasia. False positive results may occur with pyuria and gross hematuria.
Suggestions for evaluating patients with microalbuminuria:
1. Check for and treat underlying diseases indicated above
2. Recheck MA in 2-4 weeks
3. In the absence of underlying disease, monitor for progression of MA and development of renal failure.
I'm still going to try to get the other records. One of the other Dr's should be able to authorize the release of the files.
That is all I have for now. I would be interested in knowing what you think or if this tells a story at all. It seems like there is alot missing.
Pat Peety's #1 fan
I am going to look this over some more but did the vet talk to you about these results at all? Like any mention of renal issues and is anything being treated or was treated after these results?
For instance Amylase 11809(High) 290-1125 U/L
In fact, do you mind if I highlight the high/low results you posted in red so they are easily seen.
Was the MA (Microalbuminurie) rechecked as was recommended on this lab work after 2 - 4 weeks? And do you know if there have been consistently high results in this area?
Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
No and yes, No one ever talked to me about the results of his Blood test in January. And yes, highlight anything that makes it easier for you.
OMG!!!!! We have a worse problem, than bad skin or Cushing's. I think I'm gonna be sick. Why has no one told me anything about renal failure. I feel horrible, like a bad mommy not to know all this. Why has no one said anything?????? I can come up with all kind of possible remedies for his bad skin and can get him on meds for Cushing's but not much I can do for renal failure. OMG!!!!
This is truly sickening. I feel like I was just punched in the stomach. I typed all that in last night, but honestly I wasn't really reading it, just kinda on auto-pilot typing. I was looking for anything that had Cushing's in the sentence.
So he was a worse Vet than I actually knew. This test was done in January. This is May. What was he thinking, or better yet, why wasn't he thinking? I'll wait for your response. I'm truly sick, that my boy is sick and I didn't even know how bad.
Pat Peety's #1 fan
Ok, honey, take a deep breath....since this test has not been repeated we don't know what those values have done - increased or decreased or stayed the same. From what I am reading, there could be other causes for the elevations that seem to indicate renal issues and repeat testing was needed to determine exactly what. That wasn't done so we don't know right now. So what I would do is request this be checked again asap. Cushing's could be at the bottom of this as well so don't get discouraged today, 'k? Call the vet, or A vet, and have labs run again then go from there.
Big hugs,
Leslie and the gang
As Leslie said, breath! Deep breaths, in and out, count to 10.
The tests need to be repeated. You need to see where Peety is at now. This is Not absolute renal failure, you have to look at the big picture, no one test or results will give that to you. They are markers that make you aware that something needs to be looked at. I think you typed, Feb for that test.
I am going to say that I would ditch that vet as follow up is very important and this one dropped the ball big time. So, lets just get you to a vet, and I would suggest a specialist if that is possible for you, because we do want someone who will look at the big picture. It could have been something that caused these to go up and now they are coming back down, but you do need to know, just for your peace of mind even and because of course, we are trying to get Peety's skin fixed up.
So, some more deep breaths and we're right here with you. Every test that you do going forward though, get a copy of and when your vet gets back, tell him, you want copies of the full file.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
You guys must think I am terrible. No, I know you don't. But I think I am terrible. I assume that after blood work is done there is a discussion about anything that appeared abnormal. And of course I feel bad that I didn't request a copy of the test. I should have. It has alot of important information on it and I did pay for it, afterall. Lesson learned....I should know better, you just don't trust anyone, even if they have a dozen diplomas. So all this time while we were waiting to do the Cushing test, we could have addressed the kidneys. Even the derm Dr didn't mention it and she had all his blood work from my Vet. But then she was a hugh disappointment too. So far I am batting 1000. I have to shake this off and get on with finding the right person to care for him.
Well, on a brighter note. No honey allergies. We are all wrapped up mummy style. I'll try to snap some pics when I am home this weekend. He's doing good. Thanks for all your encouraging words. I cried about it and will again I'm sure, but gotta get really serious and find the right person. Big hugs to all of you for your insight and input and for your caring. loving spirit..
Pat Peety's#1 fan.
Pat
No feeling horrible. You trust them to interpret the results and speak to you.
Sending you a big hug
Mel
Xxx
Hello from me, and I just want to reinforce something that Leslie wrote earlier: a big reason why the renal abnormalities may have been put on hold was to first explore the Cushing's diagnosis more thoroughly. This is because Cushing's, itself, could be responsible for causing many of those abnormalities. If so, one of the first lines of attack would be effectively treating the Cushing's with the expectation that the renal values might normalize all on their own once elevated cortisol is controlled.
So you are not a bad mom in any way for allowing the Cushing's diagnosis to remain in the forefront.
Marianne
Nope, not a bad momma. We KNOW how hard you are trying to find answers for Peety. It's something we all have been through and many are still going through. Not a fun place to be at all. This who process is a huge learning curve. I didn't know anything about getting copies of the test results, or protocols for dosage, testing for diagnosis, treatment. Those are all things that you Learn. I learned here by talking to others, by reading links to material from experts, by searching for answers for others.
You're doing great!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
You have certainly helped put things in perspective. Thank you. I am not so forgiving of the good Dr. though. Communication is vital especially when it comes to a loved ones health. We all need to be on the same page when it comes to diagnosis and treatment.
The next Dr. will not get away with not being forthcoming with information. I have a few places to ckeck out on Monday. For now we are doing fine. I am amazed at the number of Cushing parents. I read somewhere that alot of fur-babies probably die from undiagnoised Cushing's. So there's alot of people that don't know about it. This community is full of stories from scared parents and I know at one time or another you all were those scared parents. This is such a great place to let it all out, the good..the bad...and the ugly. You don't judge, you just help.
Thanks again for being there.
Pat Peety's #1 fan
We have an appt Fri with a new Dr. I talked to them at great length about their knowledge and practical experience with Cushing's and skin diseases. I was told they had several pups that were on maintenance. So we will see how this goes. It is consultation only. Right now we are doing the honey wraps and I can't give thumbs up or down yet, it's only been a couple of days. Will wait at least until the end of the week to see if even the slightest improvement. I'm very hopeful.
Hugs to all of you and your lil pups
Pat Peety's #1 fan
Hope the honey works. Sounds like the vet you are going to see uses lysodren, if they have dogs on maintenance doses. That might work well if this is cushings, and if this is the root cause of the black skin disease.
Hope that honey helps.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin
Hey Pat
Just checking in on you and our honey mummy.....
Hope you are both doing ok?
Bug hug, kisses to the little man
Mel
Xxxxx
Hi Pat, can you imagine, we have new member with an english bulldog that seems to have the same thing going on with her skin that Peety does. Black crusted. Her vet though did a skin scraping and diagnosed calcinoisis Cutis with a bacterial infection. Did your vet do a skin scraping? Many of peety's values, are consistent with prolonged infection and could even be affecting other areas of the body. I am seriously wondering about that now.
I am glad you are going to a vet on Friday. How is the honey working?
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin