Molly, 13 yr, shih tzu - lhasa aspo - Molly has passed

Hi again, Sharlene.

John is so right, nonadrenal issues can certainly increase cortisol readings. But the LDDS is more vulnerable to "false positives" than is the ACTH. So if it was something other than Cushing's that was causing the elevation, you'd expect Molly's results to be reversed. It would be the LDDS that would be elevated, but the ACTH less likely. :confused:

You mentioned that the specialist who reviewed the ultrasound and labwork does think that the results all point to Cushing's. Did he/she have any explanation for the discrepancy between these two tests?

Marianne

I can see where a UTI would cause cortisol levels to rise, but the ACTH/LDDS situation is strange. I don't have my papers handy at the moment, but in the consult follow up to my vet, the IMS said that if LDDS test does not support ACTH, to wait and retest in 3 - 4 months. If it Does support ACTH, then to begin with 5 - 10 mg Trilostane.
That makes me wonder if perhaps it isn't quite as unusual as I thought. I have not yet had a call from my vet who did the testing and when I called last night, I was told that they were waiting on the culture/sensitivity test results. I did ask if they did a cortisol/creatine ratio or not, but the girl I spoke to didn't know and the vet had already left for the day. (that was around 6pm)
I think it is strange that the vet hasn't called since normally she would have. I wonder if she is still miffed about my questioning her and going to the IMS. I don't know if they forwarded the results to the IMS or not. The IMS is at an emergency vet hospital.
I think it is strange about the results, but no one else seems to be acting very concerned.

Thanks for the support!
Hugs,
Sharlene

Quote:

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Originally Posted by molly muffin

I can see where a UTI would cause cortisol levels to rise, but the ACTH/LDDS situation is strange. I don't have my papers handy at the moment, but in the consult follow up to my vet, the IMS said that if LDDS test does not support ACTH, to wait and retest in 3 - 4 months. If it Does support ACTH, then to begin with 5 - 10 mg Trilostane.

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Given all the circumstances surrounding Molly's symptoms (or lack therof) and testing, I think the recommendation of the IMS to wait a little while and then repeat the LDDS is a very reasonable one. :)

It does not seem to me as though there is any need to rush into treatment until the puzzle pieces show greater clarity. And in the meantime, it sounds as though Molly remains a happy, beautiful little girl. ;)

Marianne

Congrats on becoming a forum host, Sharlene!

I just sent you a message too, but I wanted to publicly thank you for accepting. I was hoping they were going to ask you because you have done such a wonderful job welcoming people, supporting them, and offering encouraging words. You are perfect for this role!

Julie

Hi Julie,
I got your message and responded. Thanks for the welcome. I'll try to live up the great job that you and Addy are doing. You know the bar is high right. :) :) :)
I guess being talkative can be a good thing!

I'm going to try calling the vet again tomorrow. So far I've had no luck catching her. I find it strange that she hasn't called me yet, normally she does call as soon as test results come in yet nothing about the LDDS. I think she might still be miffed that I opted for the specialist consult.

I agree we are holding off for now on the Trilostane. I wonder if the tumor is very small if it can still put out the signals to suppress. Her labs only went wonky in March, so perhaps they are thinking that in 3 - 4 months, there will have been cortisol in her system long enough that it will no longer suppress. Man I hate second guessing. Either way Molly is still happy for now, so I'm okay with that.

Thanks all!
Sharlene

Hi Sharlene,

A belated congrats from me. You have been terrific and with so many new members we need all the help we can get:D:D

You are doing an awesome job and we are so very thankful.

hugs

thanks for being a host! I read Molly's thread but your questions for her are out of my realm but wanted to say hi!

Thats okay, they are out of my realm too! :)

Sharlene

Whoooo Hoooooo! I just spoke with the lab tech at my vets and the prognosis for now, based upon the LDDS is that it is not Cushings at this time. Not to say it won't go that way. We'll retest her in 3 - 4 months for cushings and we'll keep an eye on her liver with some regular blood tests too. I'll always want to keep an eye on the protein.
I've asked the vet to get back to me by early next week on liver supplement ideas or what we can do for that.
She also does not have a UTI. They think that the small trace amount of blood was from the 2 small crystals, that might be aggravating but are not large enough to be life threatening.
So for us this is a good day. I hope that everyone else is getting good news today too. We're calling this Good News Friday!

Hugs,
Sharlene

Hi Sharlene,

That is certainly good news! I'm all for Good News Friday!

I'm glad you didn't decide to treat even before this, because it just didn't sound like Molly had enough symptoms. Sort of like Hannah. Watching and waiting and retesting sounds like a good plan.

Have you heard of or talked about Denamarin as a liver supplement? Hannah has been on it for about 6 months. When she was diagnosed with Cushing's, her ALKP was 1770. She tried Anipryl for a few months and it did drop the ALKP, but her behavior was the same. We then stopped the Anipryl and did nothing. Her ALKP creeped back to 800 in a few months. That's when we started the Denamarin. Three months later it was 186 (normal!) and a couple of days ago it was 250, so a little high, but not terrible. I am a big fan of the Denamarin. :D

I hope they'll find something that will work for Molly. But at least you can have a happy and relaxing weekend!

Hi Julie,
I'm glad that I came here and found out that I should be having other tests before starting treatment.
It is her ALT's that I need to go down in addition to her ALP. I'm going to ask about the Denamarin.

I think it sounds like Molly and Hannah are both in the waiting stages, retest, retest, retest.

Hugs,
Sharlene

Dear Sharlene
Thank you for being so great with support for so many of us.
Don't rush into anything with Molly. Read all you can about cushing , and give the results on any tests they do. We have some great techs who can interrupt them for you. And always get a copy of the tests for future comparison. Never be afraid to ask questions of your vet. If you don't feel good with their decision listen to your gut.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

Hi Sonja, absolutely not rushing into anything. Her last test, LDDS, returning a noncushings results, we will be waiting and retesting her in 3 - 4 months for cushings. In the meantime, I am getting recommendations on supplements for Liver (her ALT's are a tad on the high side and of course her ALP's are high) and I have had excellent suggestions from members of which supplements to look into for that.

I've added some pictures of molly to a folder, so peeps can get to know her. She's my adorable little rescue baby. It to this day breaks my heart that someone did not want her. We got her when she as 11 months old.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?u=2360

She also, only understood French, when we got her. How funny is that and them telling me her name was "lady" well, she didn't respond to lady, nor did she respond to Madame, mademoiselle, or any other combination i could think of. Hence, the doggie discussion of "now you're name is molly, end of this silliness, you have a name now" LOL
She still though will sit at the feet and gaze adoringly at anyone willing to speak french to her.
Je m'appelle Molly et j'aime la langue française.

Hugs all,
Sharlene

Bonjour, je peux parler seulement un petit français.

That is too precious, Molly loving french:D:D:D:D:D:D

Okay, start saving the pennies. There are no quarantine laws in France. She can go into the country, no problemo and the French LOVE dogs. Dogs can even eat in restaurants with you.

Mon ami, Molly can you say "a baguette, please at an outdoor cafe on Rue St Dominique?


Love it:D:D:D:D:D

My favorite dog book, Lauren's Story, an American dog in Paris by Kay Pfaltz

How precious is that, a dog that understands French. Hope you are doing ok today Sharlene. Love, JoAnne

Hey gang, I'm fabulous today. :) Molly is fabuleux. LOL

It is true, the French, do love their dogs. We were in France a couple years ago and one of the things I noticed in Nice is that all along the streets, you will have metal waste containers mounted on poles, that have doggies poopie bags so you can pick up and then dispose of waste in a sanitary manner. No poop all over the streets for the French. There is no excuse as everything you need is provided for you. Love it!

She actually came to us from the northern part of Quebec and a high kill area for dogs turned into the shelters. :( We have or had, a rescue group that specialized in saving this dogs and brought them down to Toronto, where groups of people already screened for adoption would then go pick up their new babies. When we walked in the door, our molly was in a cage, practically shaved down to the skin because her mats had been so bad, just a baby really and she looked sad and forlorn. Hubby took one look at her, picked her up and said, she needs us, lets go. That was that, we took the little shaved, shaking, frightened sweetheart home, only to discover we had brought home the queen of the pack, a princess waiting to be crowned. She was so crowned and we still live to serve.

I totally have to read that book addy!

LOL
Sharlene

Dear Sharlene
Thinking about you and Molly.
Know what you mean about the French. About 30 years ago we were in France flying from Cain to Paris and we say dogs in the plane just sitting with their dogs. Back then it was fun to fly, real food, utensils,and the blankets and pills and snacks were free. What a concept.:eek:
Is it true you are from Canada? I was born in Toronto. Lived on I think it was Young Street right beside the the Maple Leaf Garden. the moved to Rexdale, Ontario, the township of Etopica( forgot the spelling). Still have a few friends in Scarborough . Miss a lot about Canada, but not the cold.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

Hi Sonja, Yes I live in Mississauga and work in Etobicoke. The area that Rexdal is in. Small world.
Those were the good days of flying. Not it's here is a bag of nut, enjoy your flight. LOL Not quite the same. I love how the french adore their dogs. I haven't flown with Molly, I don't think she would like it since everything scares her and she doesn't do good with change. If you are flown since you are a puppy though I guess they are use to it. I have a friend who flies her dogs with her when they go from Alaska to Arizona for the winter months and she says it's no big deal. I don't necessarily believe her. :)
Yea, the cold is not fun. That's why we have so many snowbirds that take off in the winter. :)

Hugs,
Sharlene

Hi Sharlene,

I checked out Molly's pictures. She sure is a cutie! She is very lucky that she found such a wonderful, loving home to live her life! I'm sure you feel pretty lucky too because she's a pretty special girl. I love that she enjoys being spoken to in French. And that she tries to get in shoes. What a funny girl!

I added more pictures of Hannah yesterday too. I put all of the pictures I had of her on my computer in one folder yesterday so I had them all in one place. I was thinking about how lucky I was to find her. We adopted her when she was four. She had never been on a leash, been in a car, walked on grass, seen stairs, etc. She was a pretty strange little dog. She learned so much and is the most sweet, loving dog I've ever met. She loves everyone and lives to be around people.

Hannah's happily chewing on a bone right now...she is pretty happy about it. Thanks again for checking in on us. I hope her laser treatment provides some relief tomorrow too.

Julie & Hannah

Hannah is adorable Julie. I love all those pictures of her. That is hearbreaking that she had never walked on grass, seen stairs, or anything. I'm so glad you found her and showed her what true love is.

I'm don't know why I have such head banging impulses after any talk with my vet but I do. Today we discussed liver supplements. I'm going to start her on a liver supplement called hepato supplement. Basically a milk thistle supplement. They have one called Zenotil which is sort of like the Denamarin, but doesn't have the milk thistle in it, so you have to take both together if needed.

She hasn't heard of Denamarin. (hence the head banging) No UTI. So, anyway, I'll start that when I return from Montreal. I have a work thing I have to do this weekend and not starting anything new if I can't be close by to keep an eye on her myself.

We'll keep an eye on her liver and protein results going forward. Retest now is looking to be end of November/December. As long as she doesn't start displaying any symptoms of the cushings that is.
With the ultrasound results we can't rule out that she might be headed in that direction.
*sigh*

At least Molly is happy, she just had a tickle session with the hubby, (she is ticklish under her front legs especially) so he tickles, she growls and then they are both exhausted. I just found the shoe in front of the front door, so she must have run over there right after he tickled her to try to bury her face inside of it. Revenge shoe? hmmm.. Now they both are ready for bed. ROFL!

hugs,
Sharlene

Sharlene: That is so cute, a revenge shoe, my dachshund would have it torn to shreds when he was younger. Does not play much now. I hope you find out for sure Molly's diagnosis. Hopefully it will not be Cushings, but I know you will handle whatever it is with love. Hugs, JoAnne

Hey Sharlene, thanks for the good wishes about Shelby. She is doing ok, and we are ALL adjusting to the e collar!

I hope you and Molly are having a good weekend!

Hugs,

Tina and Jasper (and Shelby)

Thanks Tina, we had a good weekend in Montreal.
Molly stayed over at the vets. Strange though. She was 19.6 lbs in June for the ACTH test. She was 19lbs at the LDDS test in August, this time when I took her in Saturday she was 18.6. Trying to figure that out.
She also came home with diarrhea today. She doesn't Always have stomach issues from staying at the vet. The last couple time they only gave her dry dog food, no treats or wet food when she was there and she did fine. This time though sure enough, upset tummy. I think it is because she gets a lot of separation anxiety when she is away from us, or at least when she is staying at the vet.

Hugs,
Sharlene

I hope Molly's tummy settles down and am glad she made it through staying at the vet's.

Molly's tummy was fine by the evening and I started her on her Hepato support supplement today. She seems to be doing fine. She certainly had a lot of energy when I got home today! hahaha

hugs,
Sharlene

Lots of energy is a good thing. I am so glad to hear that Molly is doing better with her tummy issues.

Sharlene: So glad Molly is better with the diarrhea. If CoCo eats more than usual he will get diarrhea. Glad to see you on again and hope you have a good week. Love JoAnne

Well the diarrhea was just based upon anxiety from being at the vets it looks like. I hate that she gets so upset but there is no one else that can take care of her really when we are away. We have a trip coming up where she is going to be boarded for 10 - 11 days, so I have a case of nerves before even leaving her.

Last night I gave her green beans for the first time. I'd never even Heard of this for a dog treat. Now, are they suppose to be just given raw, cooked, canned from the grocery or what? I gave her a few because we were having some with dinner and thought, why not. A friend tells me her dog also eats cauliflower. Carrots cooked or raw? I'm sort of new to this whole idea of veggies as dog treats.

Hugs,
Sharlene

Hey Sharlene: I did give CoCo lots of vegetables as treats before he started having so much trouble with diarrhea and he really loves them, especially the baby tomatoes and apples, but now they seem to upset his stomach. I have tried the pumpkin, but he still gets the upset stomach. I think the cushings causes it or the Trilostane, so I just watch everything I feed him now. I know you are going to miss Molly Muffin on your long trip. I am so glad we can take CoCo with us when we are going to be out of town. We are watching the track of the hurricane this morning and hoping it is gone before our trip on Friday. Of course Tunica is on the Mississippi river so just depends on what is going on Friday. Have a good week. Love JoAnne

Sharlene I've done frozen green beans or cooked and chopped up.

when I tried broccoli that wasn't chopped as well she picked every single piece of it out and laid it aside LOL

Hi Sharlene,

Yes, dogs can eat just about everything we do. The thing to be aware of is this - vets say not to feed table scrapes and they are absolutely correct in this. However, table scrapes and human food are not the same things. Table scrapes will contain things that we humans use to make the food taste better - seasonings, fats and oils, etc. and those are the things that are not good for our babies. So fresh, unseasoned, human foods are good but what comes off of our plates and our of our pots and pans usually isn't.

Use raw, frozen, or home cooked fresh veggies. Canned veggies often contain things like onion which are toxic to our babies. Green beans, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, sweet potatoes, squashes, white potatoes...the list is quite long. Be sure to google to learn what food NOT to feed and give each new food one at a time with plenty of time to see how Molly handles it. ie Don't give green beans this morning then broccoli tonite - if she were to have an upset you couldn't know which it was. Give each new one a day or two to make sure it is ok with her system. ;) Be cautious with the Brassicaceae family of veggie as they can and do affect thyroid function. Pups who are already hypothyroid do not need these veggies at all. This family includes broccoli, cauliflower, kale, mustards and others.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

OH! Also pay attention to the nightshade family of veggies - white potatoes and tomatoes to name a couple. This family of veggies can aggravate arthritis and other skeletal inflammatory conditions. I love white potatoes but have to eat them sparingly as they do make me hurt worse afterwards. ;)

My Koko LOVES organic blueberries. I think he is addicted to them;):D We use them as a treat. The first time I gave him one, he spit it out and looked at me like I was crazy. Then he saw Zoe gobble one up (back in the day when she could eat stuff like that) so he decided to try again and he has been loving them ever since. Will stand at the frig waiting for one:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Hi all, I'm going to be away for awhile. We're leaving for Barcelona and won't be back for a couple weeks. I hate leaving molly at the vets, but this is the best option for her since we don't have anyone who can take her and I'm so very picky about who has her, and what she can do, can't do, can eat, can't eat, etc, etc. She doesn't like people she doesn't know, she will attack any dog she doesn't Know or consider a friend. (yea, she is the little short one that will go for the leg of the big one) If I am there then I don't worry, but if I'm not I do.

I find though that my biggest concerns are all of you. My dear friends who are going through so much yourselves and just worrying that everyone is going to be okay. Not being here if needed, bothers me. I don't know what kind of internet abilities I'll have available in Spain, maybe wifi at our hotel. I'll take my tablet just in case. :) If I can buy a sim card to use there, then even better!

Just in case though I might be missing in action for awhile. Everyone take care and I'd say behave, but heck, that's no fun!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Have a great time! You will be missed around here. I'm sure the vet's will spoil Molly rotten. Kim

have a fabulous time! We chaperoned a bunch of high school kids to Europe a couple of years ago and only got to spend 2 days in Barcelona. Always wished we'd had a bit longer, I'm sure Molly will be fine!

Have a great time! Barcelona is absolutely beautiful!
Hugs Maya and Leah:)

Wow Sharlene, Tunica is no match for Barcelona. Have a great time and I will miss your posts. Molly will be fine. Love JoAnne

Tunica - Barcelona - front porch....hummmmm, something is wrong here. :confused: JoAnne, Sharlene - ya'll aren't spending enough money at the vet's or something! :p

Have fun and miss us terribly, as we will miss you!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Sharlene, hope you have a wonderful trip! :) :) :)

Marianne