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Once a week for 5 weeks isn't too bad but I assume it's because his tumor was a reasonable size. They gave Macy pred too but for some reason they only gave her a low dose. I don't know why. Will have to add that to the list of things I want to ask about.Quote:
Originally Posted by EmCHammer
Kathy
Hi i am Pennys mom - Penny had a really bad couple of day - they put in front of me should we give Penny a few days to see how she does and the make the decision uggg - Penny has many problems - lower lumbar spurs - burs - curving - lots of pain - her liver very enlarged and very round - also thinks her pit tumor has enlarged cause pressure - she is on trilo for cushings - she likes to be alone now - like to be in a secure space - and little episodes when on high doses of trilo eyelids blinking fast with head jerk - lasting only 2 - 3 seconds - better since on lower dose - when laying she keeps kicking out her back legs and grones alot - the other nite new thing she sticks her tongue like a snake - licks her chops - yawns alot - and sometimes looks like shes going to yawn but just opens her mouth alittle - also when whe was laying in front of the door she keep pushing and pushing her body into it lie to get closer - so this is from the tumor? I said to the vet is she suffering - she said from all three isssure she is in pain - so I said you speaking of putting her to sleep - she said if she is not better in 4 days or so you have to decide - I am so confused - I dont want to let go yet - now today she is outside -barking at people - when I came home she was doing her song and dance - she is eating - still alittle with the tongue thing and drinking alot - also she has this bad turn after not taking Rimadyl for 3 days - I ran out figured give her alittle break - It was for her hips and this kicked in - vet said the little bit of anti inflamatory was prob just keeping her ok - so back on Rimadyl and tramadol at nite -- any help would be so appreciated - Cyn719 Thank you so much!!
I did forget to ask do pennys symptoms relate to a marco?
Hi. I'm so sorry to hear Penny is so sick. It sounds as though she's really dealing with a lot. The symptoms you mention don't match what I saw in Macy but a pituitary macroadenoma does put pressure on the brain so I'd guess it can produce a lot of different symptoms. You'd have to do something like a ct scan to determine if the tumor is causing all of this. Is she well enough to withstand diagnostics?
If I recall correctly the liver does get involved with this disease. Have you (or can you) try prednisone? I'm not sure if you can when the liver is enlarged.
I hope you're able to make her comfortable. Let us know how things are going. You've got a tough decision. I wish I could help more. I'll be thinking of you and Penny.
I'm sorry your message went unanswered for a few days. I've been away from the computer. I hope one of the other members will jump in if they have any ideas.
Kathy
Thank you Kathy -- Penny is actually doing better - the other day I thought that was it today she is good?? This disease will drive you crazy!! Shes better - watching her - off the vetroyl for now - just getting her back on her feet - the only weird symptom is she always seems to be stretching her jaw -like opening her mouth to yawn but only half way? just opens mouth and stretches low jaw forward??? but shes eating - drinking - walking better soo??? Day by day :)
Cindy,
If Penny does indeed have a macroadenoma remember the pituitary is just at the base of the brain and it probably causes pain. Macy's neurologist said that at the very least she had a massive headache. Penny's jaw stretching might bring relief from the pressure. I had to take Macy off Vetoryl too but I never fully understood why. Since Cushings causes excess cortisol I guess that also eases discomfort so taking them off it helps. Marianne is that right? Before surgery Macy was not only not taking Vetoryl they put her on prednisone to reduce the tumor.
Kathy
Marianne,
I am so sorry for your loss of Barkis. I just re-read your note here with new eyes because you could have been describing Kirby and I may have to make the same decision soon. Even the tremors are exactly as you described. He actually stopped eating on Monday, going to the bowl but not being able to eat, as you noticed. By Monday afternoon he was being examined at our wonderful vet's, given a "lomi lomi" massage by a dear Hawaiian assistant on one end and kisses from the vet on the other. Finding nothing else wrong to explain the inability to work his tongue, she gave him a small bowl of Hills a/d in warm water, raised to his head and he was able to get a little in. After several more attempts at home, he was able to eat again within another day or so and his tongue now responds as long as his bowl is elevated. Today we started L-deprenyl = selegiline, brand name Anipryl with hope that this drug can enable him to function for a little longer. I am trying to find out how that works with Trilostane to treat pups with macroadenomas. Perhaps I am clutching at straws and I noticed you did not mention that as an option for Barkis.
Anyway, I just wanted to verify that another dog is experiencing the same symptons and my vet considers them to be consistent with a likely macro.
With hugs and deep sympathy,
Tricia and Kirby
Kathy - as I reread your post Penny does pace (if that is circling) seems to drag her leg but she has a hock injury so hard to tell - digs - sometimes she seems stiff and doesnt want to lift her heard - always lying on her side and groans alot -- so hard to tell with out testing - going to IMS wed hope she can tell me more - she is on a course of Pred now - does have enlarged live ??
Kathy, I am sorry that I am so late in responding to your question about the combination of Vetoryl and prednisone. I am not sure that I fully understand the ins and outs of macaro treatment myself (or I guess I should say that I am sure that I DON'T fully understand it :o). But even though it may seem counter-intuitive to give a dog both trilostane and prednisone, we've learned from our experience here that it is sometimes recommended. To the best of my understanding, it is for this reason. In situations where a steroid is thought to be helpful, you want it to be dosed in a very consistent and predictable way. That means that for a dog with Cushing's, you need to make sure that the dog's own cortisol level remains under reasonable control as well. Otherwise, the natural cortisol can elevate by leaps and bounds, and you have no idea whether or how much supplemental prednisone to be adding into the mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by ktzndgs
When a macro is involved, I believe that prednisone can be recommended in order to try to control and limit the swelling and inflammation caused by the expanding tumor. But this is why the vets may want to leave the dog on trilostane, as well -- in order to keep the natural cortisol level in check and at a predictable level so that the supplemental prednisone can be dosed appropriately.
Cindy, this is one of the many reasons why I am so anxious for you to get to see the specialist on Wednesday. Because it may actually turn out that Penny would do better on a combination of both her Vetoryl and also some prednisone as well. Penny's situation is really too complicated for us to be able to advise you in this regard, and it will be so good to have an expert on board.
Tricia, I am so sorry to hear about Kirby's ongoing problems. I wll never forget how horrible it felt to watch Barkis trying to drink and refusing to eat!!! As far as the Anipryl, I am guessing that it will only turn out to be helpful for him if his symptoms are indeed being caused by canine cognitive disorder as opposed to a macrotumor. Once again, I am surely no expert and I definitely do not know a lot about Anipryl, but I an unaware of a mechanism by which Anipryl will truly intervene if the symptoms are being caused by an expanding tumor placing pressure on other critical parts of Kirby's brain. Due to Barkis' relatively young age and the pattern of his neurological symptoms, CCD was never offered out as a possible explanation. Having said that, I definitely see no problem with giving Anipryl a try alongside the trilostane. Either the Anipryl will help Kirby or it will not, but I don't believe it will cause any harm. And I am surely hoping that it will help!!!
Marianne
Marianne - I know it is confusing - maybe no trilo cause she was doing bad and had no energy?? Pred helped with that alittle by still very laid back and tired - she eats - prob the pred helping - Wed will answer all my questions I hope - cant get here quick enough! Thank you for always being there and offering your advice - it really really means alot!:)