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Wow, Jani! Sparky does not look like he is 14!!!! What a handsome guy! If you hadn't said anything I'd have guessed he was still a puppy! I saw Maise's memorial...love that picture!
Hope your pain is easing a bit and the good memories are filling the void. Keeping you in my thoughts!
Hi Marianne,
I was wondering in the time you have been on this site and learning about Cushing's, do you ever find out what the final blow is to the Cushinoid dogs? Maybe you have information from another source? My Maisie basically had a brain tumor that made her lose her vision, dementia, neurological mayhem basically. Whether this was a
macro adenoma or some other sort of mass the vets did not know. They just knew it was a brain mass. How many times have you heard this? Is this the usual thing? Do you think the small tumors grow larger usually? What do other dogs experience in the end? Now I'm thinking I should have given her melatonin.
Sorry for all the questions. I'm just trying to cope with this and not doing such a great job. I cry all the time missing my baby.
thanks,
jani
Jani, I have not posted to you before but have been reading. First of all, let me offer my deepest sympathies on Maisie's passing. I know words don't mean a lot right now, but I am thinking of you.
I can tell you how I lost my 2 Cushpups. ( Yes, I have been lucky or unlucky enough to have to fight this dratted disease with 2 pups, now.) My first boy, Barkley, had been successfully treated with lysodren for nearly 8 years without any major problems with his Cushing's when he was diagnosed with lymphoma. I did put him through chemotherapy which gave us 20 more months together for which I will be forever grateful. B had an excellent quality of life during those last months. B was 15 when he crossed the bridge. I lost my 2nd boy, Harley, last October. He had been successfully treated with lysodren for 2 1/2 years. Harley developed what was probably a rapidly growing bone cancer in his upper jaw that had already spread to both lungs by the time I realized something was very wrong. With the spread to both lungs, there was no other choice but to help him in his journey across the bridge. He was 15 1/2 when he passed. I have discussed the fact that I lost both boys to some type of malignancy with my derm vet who I have tremendous respect for, & he is also extremely knowledgable. My thoughts, which I expressed to the derm vet, were that since Cushing's suppresses the immune system, is it possible that with the immune system being compromised, it can't recognize malignant cells as "foreign", & attack those cells to try to get rid of them. This poor immune response then allows the cancer to grow/spread unchecked. My derm vet said it's possible, but there is absolutely no research to support my idea. I maintain that idea to this day as it's the only thing that keeps me from shoveling blame onto myself. I, also, know that our babies are very, very good at hiding when they feel bad, & you may not notice anything until the situation is "out of control". This is what happened with Harley, & I still blame myself to a certain extent.
With Barkley, he suddenly quit eating, & I knew that something was desperately wrong as B would never turn down food under any circumstances. I spent 2 weeks running B between the derm vet & his regular vet with neither of them being able to give me any answers. When the derm vet sent us to an internal med specialist, is when the lymphoma was finally diagnosed.
I know you are grieving terribly right now. I can tell you from my personal experience that you have to tell yourself that you did the best you could with the information you had available. Maisie knows you tried very hard on her behalf, & she would not want you blaming yourself.
Debbie
Hi Jani,
I have been a member of this canine Cushing's family since 2003. And during this time period, it has been a small percentage of members here who have reported the kind of neurological problems that became catastrophic for both Maisie and my Barkis. It does happen, but it is definitely not the norm. From what I have seen here, for the majority of dogs who suffer from pituitary Cushing's, the tumor does not enlarge sufficiently during their lifetime to place enough pressure on the brain to cause the problems that you and I experienced. And this includes dogs who are being treated with both trilostane and Lyosdren.
Many Cushpups are already seniors when they are diagnosed. So once their Cushing's symptoms are effectively controlled by medication, they go on to live out their normal lifespans and end up dying from the types of problems that are inevitably associated with the end of life: failures of the heart or kidneys, or a stroke, or cancer as was the case with Debbie's boys, etc. It is not the Cushing's, per se, that ends up being the final chapter. It is an old and failing body.
But there are also younger dogs who are diagnosed. And once again, if the Cushing's is effectively controlled, then they can go on to have many quality years. However, if the Cushing's is not controlled and cumulative chronic organ damage occurs, then the dog may suffer from serious problems such as major organ damage, or uncontrolled infections.
For those few of us who have had dogs who suffered from enlarging pituitary tumors, however, it is a very different picture. It is not organ or systemic body damage that is the culprit -- it is the catastrophic effect on the brain's ability to function normally. And from what you've written, I'm guessing you and I both know what we are talking about and how hard it is to witness that happening in your beloved companion. For my boy, it included pacing, acting dazed and confused, loss of coordination, and finally the inability to even eat and drink. Since I would never wish this experience upon anyone else, I am very grateful that most members here will never have first-hand knowledge of what you and I both saw. Thankfully, it is not common. I have now witnessed a lot of dogs being treated with trilostane and Lysodren, but very few who develop these neurological complications.
So it is not something that you could have predicted or forseen. And if Maisie suffered from elevated cortisol (which I assume she did), then melatonin would not have been a sufficient treatment to control her cortisol. In good faith, you made the treatment decision that made the most sense for her.
There are some researchers who advocate for proactive MRI or CT imaging for any dog who is suspected of having a pituitary tumor, so as to permit early radiation intervention to reduce the liklihood that any large tumor can increase to an even more problematic size. This sounds great in theory, but knowing how much this imaging costs and also what is involved in current standard radiation therapy -- I cannot imagine many owners who would be willing or able to go this route with their dogs. So for the most part, we are all left with making the best decision we can with the information that is readily available to us. I think Debbie has already said this so well, and I hope you will be able to take what she has said to heart :o:
Sending you many, many hugs.Quote:
I know you are grieving terribly right now. I can tell you from my personal experience that you have to tell yourself that you did the best you could with the information you had available. Maisie knows you tried very hard on her behalf, & she would not want you blaming yourself.
Marianne
I'm so sorry for your dog Barkis. Was he on Trilostane? How long did he have Cushing's?How old was he when he passed? Maisie was only 11.5. At least 5 years was carved off of her life. After reading your note, now I know why her doctor felt so bad. This is not the norm. The SF Vet Specialists sent a cash contribution in Maisie's name to the UC Davis Veterinary School. I'm sure he was behind it. He has his Phd from Yale and UC Davis in Internal Medicine in canines. He kind of knew his stuff....but I feel a little like......did he?? Why wasn't she on high blood pressure meds? Her blood pressure was really high when she went into the ER hospital. At first they thought a stroke for her, but then knew it was a brain mass because of her severe symptoms. If they had asked me for an MRI on her brain a year ago I would have said yes. She was so much stronger then. I would have to say the last 4 to 5 months things started to get worse. More loss of hair....panting...more water etc.... Another ACTH and the doctor upped her meds again to 170 mg a day. She weighed 24 lbs. Two weeks later after her meds were raised.... the meltdown happened. Also after her meds were raised she developed calsinosis cutis. Now I diagnosed this from the internet. I pointed it out when she was in the hospital, but she had much more serious issues at hand.
re radiation:
I agree. Radiation therapy is 4 to 6 weeks everyday. The poor little dog is then put under anesthesia many times through this. Also a dog with neurological symptoms of the tumor being larger is not a good candidate apparently. But you probably know all of this. The state that Maisie was in....well....I can't imagine her being able to endure any of that.
I feel once again....why my dog?? Why does Maisie have to have a mental meltdown to the point of being blinded. She was so pampered and loved on a daily basis. It just doesn't make sense to me. I would give anything to have had her live until she was 15 or so even with the Cushing's. None of it bothered me. It worried me, but did not bother me....I would take care of her until the end of my life. She knew how much I loved and adored her.
The thing about all of this is that though she Cushing's and as we all know it's a really bad disease....her meltdown came suddenly and it all happened so very fast it was a shock. I was not expecting it at all.
My boyfriend walked her that afternoon and said everything seemed fine......well for how she was lately. Her hind legs were getting really stiff.
And Debbie....I'm with you. Like any disease that suppresses the immune system....like HIV.....different diseases invade the body and it can't fight it off. I'm so sorry for your pups. I can't believe you went through it twice. Were they the same breed? How long did it take for you to feel better. I'm still a mess. Tomorrow it will be a month.
thank you all again!
jani
Jani, I will miss Barkley until the day I rejoin him. He was truly my "heart dog". The acute grief over Harley probably lasted about a month, then it gradually started easing. I am really a believer in the old saying, "time heals all wounds". It's been 8 months since I lost Harley, & not quite 5 years since Barkley crossed. I have wonderful memories that I can reflect on without breaking down in tears.
Barkley was a Lhasa/Shih Tzu mix, Harley was 100% Shih Tzu.
Debbie
Dear Jani
You did all the right things. I looked at your photo album of Maisie and can see how greatly she was loved. I am glad to hear you joined a support group. It is hard enough to see them go through this awful disease and question if we did the right thing by them and then to lose them before their time. My thoughts and prayers are with you. My Apollo is on Trilostane since June of last year. And yes it is a give take. The side effects.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo
Hi Sonja,
Thanks for your note. Perhaps Appollo will live out his life on Trilostane. I hope so. I thought maybe, by chance, Maisie would. But she was broad sided by this neurological meltdown. It was just so horrible. Marianne said it is not the norm. Why Maisie.....I will never understand....never.
A tumor is a tumor, who knows how they are going to grow or not grow. The doctors barely know if at all.
Give apollo a big hug for me. He looks so cute!
take care,
jani