Tipper - adrenal tumor/breathing issues

Hi Patti,
I just want to let you know that Freckles has the shakes/tremors while awake for these various reasons that I have finally figured out in the past couple weeks:
1. upset stomach
2. has to pee or poop
3. torn ACL in back leg bothering her
She had the shakes in her hind legs before vetoryl, while on vetoryl, and now she still has them while she is in the vetoryl "wash out" month of no vetoryl.

Like you, I do not want to take her out in bad weather, but she knows that she is supposed to go out, so she "holds it in" and shakes.
If the weather is damp, the ACL could be bothering her, so she shakes.
The upset stomach caused the most shakes, even full body ones. Vetoryl can cause stomach upsets, but they need it to control Cushings, so it is a Catch-22. The full body shakes while awake stopped when all medicines were stopped and she ate a bland diet. It calmed her stomach but I know I will she will need the Vetoryl so the stomach problems may return then.

The full body shakes while sleeping have happened to all my beagles over the years, and to me, they are just good dreams. The really active & noisy ones are the ones that we would say she must be chasing a rabbit in her dreams.

I hope the new diet works well and will be interested to see how it goes once you get all the ingredients. I am considering doing what you are doing once I get her digestive system settled with her bland diet.

Louise

Hi Louise and Everyone:
Louise thank you for the information. This is very hard to figure out about Tipper. I got her chicken and sweet potatoes. The produce manager could not have been sweeter, and gave me a holiday price too! Gotta save where I can. I stopped at the vets to get Tipper and Lucky's Ursodiol and the girl told me it would be 145.00. I said real loud "what!!!" I said I pay 60.00 for it and I refuse to pay 145.00 this is outrageous. She called someone and said ok it's 60.00. What a bunch of malarkey that was. You have to speak and and be heard or you get snookered every time. I am disappointed that the supplements did not come though so I cannot make the food until they come. So I guess I have to wait and see Monday. The roads were very icy with black ice and I saw 2 cars wrecked in ditches from it. I went slow and was safe so now all that is done. Tipper needed chicken anyway even if she can't start her diet as I ran out and had to give her fish this morning. It does not stay with her like the chicken. Snow is coming down and the sun is shining and it looks beautiful, but only 19 degrees. I walked Tipper around in the yard to get her legs moving, not heavy walking in these temps because of her heart having to work too hard. Blessings
Patti

Patti,
Does the meal plan from the nutritionist tell you how much of the sweet potatoes to feed Tipper? Freckles has been on white rice and chicken but got constipated so I gave her sweet potatoes instead of rice. I must have given her too much as things went the other way. Now I am back on white rice but I need to find a happy medium so her system can get back to being regular. The sweet potatoes act like pumpkin I read.
Looks like we (NJ) are going to get your bitter cold weather later in the week. The cold never seems to bother Freckles but I worry anyway.
Stay warm.
Thanks
Louise

Patti,

I'm responding to your comment in Snuggles thread. I feel awful that you are worried that Tipper might have a pheo and that is why I asked about the video - just so I could see the breathing episodes. I know you'll manage it once the lighting issues are worked out.

Does Tipper have high blood pressure? I'm sorry but I could not remember if you ever mentioned it. If not you can feel better about it not being a pheo. I was told dogs with pheos always have HBP. Kim

Kim:
Tipper has had some higher than "her" normal blood pressures but not high according to the vet and IMS. She was at 120 before she gained the pound, and now 140. She has had some 150 and 170 but I get hers done every Wednesday so out of 14 months she has had about 7 higher than normal for her. Only once did she have a 190 and we were having a storm and she is deathly afraid of them. This is the one that the eye Dr. thinks made her vessels bleed in her eyes. They are fine now and it is gone. We had many storms this summer, and I am sure they are the cause of some of her higher than normal readings for her. Do you think if this was a Pheo that the tremors would stop when I call her name and she wakes up, or would they continue? That is the case if I shake her or call her name and wake her it stops immediately. Do pheos only secrete at nite?? IF she did not have these tremors I would not be concerned that this is a possibility. I am not sure when this tumor started on her adrenal gland, as the vet that diagnosed her pituitary cushings did not have a high resolution US. So it could have been there all along. It was only discovered when Leslie told me to go where there is a high resolution machine. I took her to Pgh. to the hospital there and they saw it. It is on the left one it encapsulates the adrenal gland, and has not traveled anywhere else, and has not grown when I took her 2 months after it was discovered. The IMS told me that pheos look different in US than a regular tumor, whatever that means. She is to go again on the 15th of January that will be 3 months to see if it has grown. I am still trying to get the video for you to see, I will try again tonite. If I could somehow eliminate that as a possibility I would not be so worried. Easier said than done huh? This makes me a nervous wreck, and when she has these tremors at nite I am having a hard time sleeping after seeing them. Thank you for all the help you have been to me. This dog is my lifeline, and I am desperately trying to do whatever I can to keep the quality of life she currently has, or make it better. Blessings
Patti

Those blood pressure readings are mostly normal so I would say she doesn't have it but good for you for monitoring. Pheos emit when they feel like it not just at night and absolutely a dog would not quit trembling when their name is called. Annie was like in another world when it was happening which freaked me out. I just held her close but couldn't stop it. So I tend to think the trembling is from something else. That said it's the breathing episode I'm curious about. Not saying it is a pheo I am just saying it is not something we normally hear about (strange noise you mentioned) and that is why I think it's worth filming. I tend to think it is not a pheo. Hugs, Kim

Hi Patti,
I don't know if this helps or not but my local vet told me right after he got the ultrasound report, that if the tumor is on the inside of the adrenal gland, then it would be due to Cushings, if the tumor is on the outer side of the adrenal gland it would be a pheo tumor. Praying for Tipper not to have a pheo. Can they tell from Tippers ultrasound where the tumor is located exactly inside or out?

Wow interesting I had never heard that before (about location) Kim

I might have gotten it mixed up , pheos are the tumors in the adrenal medulla which is the center of the adrenal gland and cushings tumors are in the adrenal cortex which is along the perimeter of the adrenal gland, I will ask the IMS or my local vet so I can post the correct facts.

I'm not a dog nutritionist by trade.. but, I'd like to jump in on the home cooked diet with my own experience. I am currently cooking for my girl pug, and have ample experience doing raw and cooked diets for past fosters long-term. Today was one of my cooking days, so I just made 2 weeks worth of food in advance.

The ideal balance for meat vs carbs/veggies is 3 to 1. Three parts protein (meat) to one part veggies and carbs. You can lessen this, but should never, ever go below 50/50, although I would personally think 50/50 is way too low on protein. I go for an ideal of 70/30 to 80/20.

My girl pug is 18 pounds, and I do 7 to 7.5 oz of meat to 2.5 oz of veggies for one day worth of feeding. A kitchen scale is invaluable

The best way for uptake on the veggies is for them to be cooked and mashed or pureed. I start by boiling or steaming the veggies, and then after they cool I mash them (sweet potatoes or squash) or run through the food processor (zucchini, kale, collards). I add in peas or green beans too. While I am mashing / processing, I will boil the meat. I like to use ground meat, but you can use chunks of muscle meat too. You can toss in some liver or kidney as well, but that ratio should be 90% muscle meat, and only 10% organ meat. It is best to lightly cook the meat. It really doesn't take long.

Patti, I am interested to know what supplements your nutritionist suggested! I have only used B Naturals or Wysong in the past, so I'd love to know what your nutritionist is recommending.