Zoe By My Side- Our Journey with Cushings

Hi Sonja and Lori,

I am not worried about her being sick to her tummy. I might have given her metronidazole too soon after eating because she chews on her Kong. If I give it too soon she gets nauseous. It might of been from stress because she knows when I sit in the back with her, she is going to the vet's. Next time I will take her in front with me and see if that helps. She is really flipping out at the vet's the last two times and it was warm in the car. I had hubby put the air conditioning on cold and she got better.

Also her metronidazole can cause tummy upset as well as the Trilostane and she takes them together so I asked if I can give Pepsid and she said yes. Do you have to give it on an empty tummy? How do you give it?

I asked vet tech to email IMS instructions and now have a clearer picture of what her thoughts are so I feel better.

I actually am thrilled that we brought her cortisol down that far in nine days and she seems okay so far and her colitis is not yet in full blown flare up.

Call me crazy but I am really happy right now.:D:D:D:D:D

We will see what tomorrow will bring. I mean, I was going to be happy if she was down to 20:p:p:p:p:p

IMS said I can't compare today's stim to her UTK panel as the test was done in a different way with different measurements. Can anyone explain that to me?

Love ya,

Very happy Addy

Hi Addy,

Sounds like things are going well so I wouldn't worry about a stim before the 30 days either....unless you see signs that she may be too low. :rolleyes:

Not sure what your vet might mean about comparing the two tests unless she is thinking about different units of measurements? Once converted to the same units, I would think the values could be compared regardless of who did the test. But I could certainly be wrong about that.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

PS. I am very, very glad things are going so well for Zoe!

I'm impressed you got your results the same day. I won't know with Randy until probably Wednesday. Glad the results were encouraging.

Hi Addy-
I know very well your apprehension and concern for Zoe.
My recollection with Palmer is that we started him out on 10mg, ran another test and then increased to 12.5, 13, or 15......I can't remember which. My experience with the stim test is in the AM and yes he could eat and then 4 hours later. I always took him back home at went back at 4 hours. He did get his medication in the AM. I know they took the pre around 9 and at 1 they took the post. Every time it was that way.
I too think you have nothing to lose by waiting for awhile, running another stim test, and seeing what those results show.....say in another month.
For each of us,l I think, the first time we go through this (and hopefully the last) it is so overwhelming and scary. These are powerful drugs and that we need to use them is scary enough, I think.
I've always had confidence in my gut feelings, but with this I also had to trust the doctor....so long as she could "defend" her methods.
I was told in the beginning by this forum that what we try to do is give them the longest life they can have and make them as comfortable as they can be during that time.
There are folks on here who have experiences where their doggies lived on for another 7 years or more. To me, the length of time was important....but not something I could greatly control. The comfort was another factor.
We do the best we can and you will find much of the support you need from these fine folks here.
As I said not long ago....enjoy today. Enjoy that you have another day and hopefully they will add up to years. I just wish I had concentrated on enjoying the day more. I got really wrapped up in the treatments, near the end, and there are things I would change if I could go back. 20 - 20 hindsight of course.
Something else I was told here.....you can't do anything "wrong" for Zoe because what you decide comes from pure love. We do the best we can with what information we have at that time.
This is a rough, rough time for you and I am so very sorry.
Remember-someone is always here.......anytime you need to scream, vent, cry, jump for joy.
Love,
Susan

P.S.-Stay with that happy feeling!! THAT is enjoying today!
I am glad Zoe seems to be responding well.

Dear Addy
I give Apollo less then 1/4 of a tablet in his food, with no problem.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by addy

Also her metronidazole can cause tummy upset as well as the Trilostane and she takes them together so I asked if I can give Pepsid and she said yes. Do you have to give it on an empty tummy? How do you give it?

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Pepcid ac should be given on an empty stomach and 20-30 minutes before giving the Cushing's med.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by addy

IMS said I can't compare today's stim to her UTK panel as the test was done in a different way with different measurements. Can anyone explain that to me?

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I don't understand your IMS' thinking here either. :confused: What different way was the UTK panel done? As for the units of measurements for cortisol on the UTK panel we convert them to ug/dl by just moving the decimal point.

You're doing a great job, Addy!! So happy to see Zoe's cortisol level has dropped from 44 ug/dl to 11ug/dl!!

Love and hugs,
Lori

Thanks Sonja and Lori,

I thought it was 30 minutes before but wanted to be sure. I waited 10 minutes again today between her Trilostane and Metronidazole and she was not sick to her tummy.:):):)

I may wait until I am home with her to watch what happens when I give her the pepcid. I think IMS thinks I am nutzo with some of this stuff:mad: but I watch Zoe's reactions when I give her stuff and pretty much draw conclusions if I get the same reaction more than once. I don't know why it helps her to wait ten minutes between pills, but it does.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I had to cut back her food a bit again to get better control of her colitis.

All I know is she was laying on my chest again this morning trying to stick her tongue in my mouth. we have not had that for a long while. And she is crawling under the sofa underneath me with her butt hanging out. Has not done that since last summer. I am so thankful for these small things. It helps me stay focused on the positive and not agonize over what tomorrow may bring.

Love ya,
Addy

Sorry i missed saying hi to Leslie and Susan and Randy's mom

Oh Addy,

I am so glad for you and Zoe!!! :)

It is the little things that make us happy!! :p

Miss Ella is up for adoption so you can have her to make you smile also!:eek: I got 2.5 hours of sleep last night. I let her have a little freedom (took down the barrier) and she abused it. :eek:

Happy Tuesday!!

Dear Addy
Focusing on those moments really helps.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo
Will post a cute video on Everything Else.

Dear Addy,

That is WONDERFUL news that you are seeing some positive changes in Zoe!!! Amazing that the cortisol is dropping so quickly. It seems like you are keeping her colitis in check, too. You'll figure out the best way to give her everything she needs in time. ENJOY ALL THESE LITTLE THINGS!!!

Thank you for checking in Mary Beth and Sonja.

I am freaking out because I thought I saw a flea an Zoe when i brought her in:eek:

It JUMPED and it was black but it was a bit bigger than a poppy seed.:eek::eek::eek:

We were out for ten minutes smelling our yard and my neighbors:eek:

I think I will go buy a flea comb.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: I don't want to put Front Line on her. i have not used that in 2 years.

LOL Marie, instead of putting Miss Ella up for adoption, buy her a ticket to the Netherlands. Sas will straighten her out real quick!!!

She will like munching on tulips:p:p:p:p

By the way, how do you give a tortoise worming medicine?

LOL,
Addy

Dear Addy
There are a lot of natural flea products out there. Just depends which you want to use.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo
How is our Zoe doing?
How are you doing?

I've never used any type of flea products on my dogs. Fortuantely, it's never been a problem. I recently read apple cider vinegar as a shampoo rinse is a natural flea deterrant. Might be worth a shot.

Hope Zoe is continuing to get more energy!

We are fine. Thank you for asking. Her poo has been better. I will try giving her her normal amount of food tonight. She woke me up at 4:30 this morning:eek: It was just getting light out. She was hungry from me cutting back her food. But it really helps her poos.
I'll see what I get tomorrow with her normal food qty today.

She is walking around the house more. Runs faster in the house. Seems to still get winded walking outside and tires out walking outside. We are able to eliminate 1 extra potty break for her.

She is giving me more of those "Zoe looks" I call them, head between the paws, laying on the floor watching me with that impish look in her eyes. She seems happy, wants to go in the car more, jumps out of the car pretty good actually. Not drinking as much water.

Is she the old Zoe? No. Does she seem better? yes. Still chewing and licking:rolleyes::rolleyes: That has not changed at all.:(:(

She has had 11 doses in 12 days. I am giving her a pepcid Saturday morning and evaluate the situation.

Oh, and hind legs are not shaking as much. I still get a tremble here and there but not as strong and she is not walking like a drunken sailor at all. Seems more sure of her footing but that could be wishful thinking on my part.

Wow, I wrote a long report:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I am really tired today. Work was impossible with mean, crabby customers:eek::eek:

Heading for a hot soak and a dog book!!!!

love ya,
Addy, Zoe and Koko

Dear Addy-
WOW! That sounds like tremendous progress for Zoe, I think. She may never get back to old Zoe-but don't worry about that. Relieving symptoms and making her comfortable are the aim. If she is giving you those cute looks, that sounds mighty good to me.

Oh-and Marie....besides LOL I just want to tell you that Bailey, who is now just shy of 5 months, has shown a marked improvement in her "bothersome" behavior. It's amazing. Hang in there,girl!

Love,
Susan

Hi Addy, I was reading up on your pup & want to share with you. I understand that you are still dealing with itchy paws ? I use chamomlie tea soaks for this & it works great for itchy skin & you can do a rinse on the whole body if needed. Sorry your baby has cushings & I hope you can get it straightened up.
Debbie & LillyMae weiner

Dear Addy
Good to hear. You are right about the old Zoe. I do not have the old Apollo, either. Will post about his issues.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

Thank you all,

Lilly Mae,

Tell me more about the tea soaks. Do you jut brew the tea, let it steep and cool down a bit and then soak for five minutes? Do you rinse? Thank you so much for posting and giving me that bit of info.

Susan,

I am happy so far. The metronidazole and her colitis cloud the true picture somewhat, so hard to evaluate sometimes. Put her back on her normal amount of food and poos got worse, sigh:(:( We will keep trying things until we again get there.

Sonja,

Things can sometimes change so fast with our babies. I have found I have to concentrate on each day and not project into the future or even next week.:eek::eek: It is hard sometimes to do.

Thank you all and have a nice weekend!!!!

Love,
Addy

Dear Addy
Hope things get better with Zoe. Dealing with same issue with Apollo sometimes great bowl movements other times not so great. Trying to be in the moment.
P.S. The little guy got on the couch today.:D We need to look at the baby steps.
Put Cushing in the drawer for the weekend.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

Quote:

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P.S. The little guy got on the couch today. We need to look at the baby steps.

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That is no small baby step, girlfriend:D:D:D:D:D I am hearing about the couch more often from Apollo;););)

If Zoe ever gets on the couch again, I'll be on a bull horn:p:p:p:p

Love ya,
Addy

Hi Addy,

So glad there is improvement. I remember with Maddie the energy didn't seem to improve all that much, but the shaking, and going up stairs (this could be the drunken sailor area) or balance got better.

It seems like it was always a work in progress; so you will always be adjusting something. Of course we don't have anything else to do--do we????:p

I am not sure how you give worm medicine to a tortoise, but it might be sprinkling the packet of medicine like I have for Ella on the food. The vet said it didn't come from the tortoises so I lucked out there. She had 2 parasites (common for puppies). So have a packet and pills. It is only money.....money I could be using to send Ella to The Netherlands to get trained...:D

Have a wonderful weekend!!!

Hi Marie,

That is exactly right, her balance is better. You described it perfectly:D

Gave her a pepped this morning and she is chewing on her Kong like there is no tomorrow, so that shoots that theory. Still walked slowly outside this morning, but not seeing as many lip licks and yawns so:confused::confused::confused::confused:

I am trying to make up my mind if I should just go to the 15 mgs in two weeks or try 12 mgs first. I really hate the thought of taking her to IMS for ACTH every two weeks. Last night we were going to take her for a ride and she walked out the door saw the car and ran back to the house. I think she thought she was going to the vet as that was the last time she was in the car, Monday. She is so frightened now about the vet. It is not good.

We will take her in the car more often this weekend and let her know it does not always mean going to the vet now. I felt terrible as she always loved her rides.


Last night, driving home from work, a brown terrier was hanging out a car window and he had red goggles on, his face in the wind. It was such a funny sight with these red goggles:D:D:D He looked like he was in a sidecar of a motorcycle.:p:p:p

I laughed so hard and then pictured Miss Ella sitting on a seat on an air plane with a pretty hat on flying to Sas and laughed even harder.

Have a good weekend too!!!!!!

Love,
Addy

Hi, Addy.

Small steps are good! Sounds like you are having little bits of progress! :D

I know EXACTLY what you mean about the fear of the car. When Alivia got out of the hospital this last time, we were out front and I wanted her to come around back with me. Normally she loves following me, but my car happened to be parked in the driveway and I couldn't even coax her to walk past it! She ran back to the house and wanted inside and would not come back out. Like Zoe, Alivia ALWAYS lovee a "road trip" anywhere. It was yet another heartbreak to see her terrified of something she used to enjoy so much. I often wonder what they must think of us taking them places to have them poked and prodded and hurt. :(:( I've been making a point to take her with me in the car whenever I can and she seems to be getting over the fear. I guess it will take a bit of time.

Have a good weekend.

Well you can guess that Miss Ella's googles would be bright pink!!!:p

I feel so bad that Zoe was afraid of the car and Alivia too. Maddie still wanted to go in the car even if she went to the vet. She loved it that much!:D

Keep Enjoying the Weekend!!!!:):)

Hi Addy
You can use 1 or 2 tea bags for just the feet & just steep & let cool then soak. I would start out with 2 for the feet, if you want to do a whole body rinse then use about 4 or 5 tea bags & pour into a clean gallon milk jug & fill the rest of the way with warm water. Bathe as usual & rinse well then pour the rinse over the whole dog & don't worry about getting into the eyes, ears or mouth as it's good for allergy eyes & they can drink it for a tummy ache.Oh, and you don't need to rinse it off, just dry as usual.
Debbie & LillyMae Weiner:)

Sorry for the double post but forgot to add on how to deworm a tortoise. It involves 4 fingers 1 knee & 1 syrenge;) & the med is usually liquid. If you need someone to talk you through, I can PM you my phone #
Debbie & LillyMae Weiner

Great, Thank you Debbie, I will try soaking her feet.:):):):)

Marie- yup, bright pink for Miss Ella for sure!!!!!!!! I can picture it so clearly:D:D:D:D:D:D

Mary Beth,
We will try more fun car rides too as you are doing for Ali. It is so sad isn't it? She likes to go to the grocery store and watch all the people. We will take her today. I used to throw Zoe and Koko in the car after work and just go for a short ride with them. I will try that this week as well.

I am getting a bit concerned about her rabies shot. If she is this fearful I am afraid she may fear bite at the vets. I told them to muzzel her last Monday. I sure don't want to give her a rabies shot right now but I may not have a choice if this continues.

Love ya,
Addy

Hi Addy,

Until Zoe's cushing's and colitis is controlled, I personally think it is a really bad idea to give her a rabies vaccine. The labels on all vaccines state that they should not be given to a sick dog and an uncontrolled cushdog and a dog with active colitis should be considered a sick dog.

My dogs will never have another rabies vaccine and I was elated when my IMS told me "no more vaccines". If necessary, he will give me a waiver for the city. My dogs are couch potatoes so they aren't out chasing squirrels or any other critter that could expose them to rabies. Plus, the risk factor in my area is slim to nil. If the rabies risk is high in your area and the regulatory agency in your area will not accept a titer in lieu of a vaccine, then please, please wait until you and your vet are 100% sure Zoe's cushing's is under control. Quite frankly, your vet should know better.

Hi my dear friend,

I'm glad you are seeing some improvement in Zoe.

I agree with Glynda. Sick dogs should not be given rabies shots. Corky is not getting his. He actually is not getting any more vaccines.

I hope Zoe continues to improve.

Alivia has not been permitted to have rabies or any vaccines of any type since she had IMHA about 7 years ago. She had had vaccines about a month prior to getting sick and they could never rule out that as the cause of the IMHA. The only issue I've had is the big chain pet stores will not groom her even with a letter from her IMS. The ONLY thing I do give her is heartworm preventative. As frequently as our dogs are at the vet they are probably the least likely to ever have rabies!

Addy, my two both like to go anywhere in the car. They enjoy people watching, too. I sometimes feel bad when I take them somewhere and they don't even get to get out of the car, but they still seem to enjoy it! I am trying to make it a point to take Alivia more frequently. Our poor babies have been through so much.

Addy/Debbie, what is the tea rinse for? :confused:

Well, I agree 100% about the rabies shot or any vaccination for Zoe but what if she bites someone at the vets? She snaps at them already.:(:(:(

Do you think it is enough to just make sure they muzzle her? I had a waiver for last year and it expired. I f she bites someone they will put her in quarantine for two weeks.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I am afraid for her on both counts. Should I buy a muzzle and muzzle her myself? I am really scared for her, it is not an exaggeration. She almost bit the vet tech last Monday.:eek::eek::eek:

What should I do? I know the rabies shot is bad for her and the chance of her having contact with rabid animals is pretty slim.But they can't take her from me either.:eek::eek::eek:

Hugs,
Addy

Addy,

My big brave hunter Maxwell is actually a little scaredy cat (I guess that would be dog). He has to warm up to people gradually and then he is fine. He is especially afraid of strange men (aren't we all???). :D He has never bitten anyone, but I always felt there was that chance. I bought him a muzzle for times when there was that potential. It is a lightweight nylon mesh and he really does not seem to mind it all. In fact, strangely enough, he almost seems relieved when I put it on him and will put his snout right in. I call it his Hannibal Lechter look. :p [Because Max has always been healthy and has a strong hunting instinct, he does get vaccinated.]

Alivia, on the other hand, never in a million years would bite anyone. However, when she had the pancreatitis episode and was in such extreme pain, her regular vet pressed her abdomen and she snapped at him. It was a knee jerk reaction to the pain and he knew it. He also knew her pain was severe because he has poked and prodded her and done all sorts of things to her over the years and she has never reacted badly. They thought they may have to muzzle her for the ultrasound, but fortunately, the pain injection kicked in and they did not have to. But, I saw their muzzle!! :eek::eek::eek: It was thick, hard leather!! It looked old and yucky....not something I would have wanted on my dogs face. In fact, I was really going to run home and get Max's for her if it was needed! So, my point of this whole LONG story is buy one of your own! Just in case you need one, and better safe than sorry. I don't think you'd want Zoe's sweet little face in a heavy, nasty looking one like my vet has! Maybe they are not all as bad as his, but I still wouldn't want one on my dog that other sick dogs had used. Something tells me you would be as picky about this as I am. ;) Plus, you might be able to introduce her to it at home gradually to hopefully cut down on the additional stress of another new scary thing she's not used to.

Addy,

You can have a titer test done to prove she has immunity; however, even if Zoe had a rabies vaccine and she bit someone, you still run the risk of having her taken from you and quarantined. You should ask your vet what their procedure is for dog bites. They are normally obligated to report dog bites so to be on the safe side, I think it would be wise to muzzle her. It sounds horrible but it doesn't hurt her and she can't hurt anybody at the vet's office.

Hi Addy-
I think Mary Beth hit the nail on the head. We had thought about getting a muzzle for Bailey in the beginning....her nipping was so bad. I looked into them some and I also think that nylon mesh style would be by far the "least intrusive." I also agree, try it at home once a day or more so Zoe gets used to it. You sure don't want to risk her biting anyone.
-Susan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MBK

Alivia has not been permitted to have rabies or any vaccines of any type since she had IMHA about 7 years ago. She had had vaccines about a month prior to getting sick and they could never rule out that as the cause of the IMHA. The only issue I've had is the big chain pet stores will not groom her even with a letter from her IMS. The ONLY thing I do give her is heartworm preventative. As frequently as our dogs are at the vet they are probably the least likely to ever have rabies!

Addy, my two both like to go anywhere in the car. They enjoy people watching, too. I sometimes feel bad when I take them somewhere and they don't even get to get out of the car, but they still seem to enjoy it! I am trying to make it a point to take Alivia more frequently. Our poor babies have been through so much.

Addy/Debbie, what is the tea rinse for? :confused:

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Hi Mary Beth
The Chamomile Tea rinse is for itchy skin & also works for skin infection & Frost Bite;)
Debbie & LillyMae Weiner

Goldie was prone to nipping when she was upset so the vet in TN always muzzled her with a soft, mesh muzzle. It didn't hurt her but protected them and us.

She tore my hands up pretty bad once when she was sick and we had to get her to the vet. I was absolutely terrified they would take her from me when I took her in as we were both covered in my blood. But they said they knew me, knew her, and knew she wasn't a danger so they didn't report it.

Goldie was such a little turd! :D I save her life and she hated me. LOL I was her least favorite person in the world and the one she would ALWAYS bite! :p

I also learned awhile back to take Squirt riding as often as possible, even if it was just down the street and back to help her get over her fear of the car = the vet. Now she never knows where we are going until we get there. ;)

I am so glad to hear that you are seeing some improvements in Zoe. That just thrills me no end, honey, and I know it does you as well. :)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Thank you all, we will go buy a muzzle and train her to wear it. I'll take her back to holistic vet for a "check up" and ask for another waiver. It is good to check in with her anyway. She will be shocked to see me.

Current plan for Zoe: Pre was 7.7 post was 11.2. How much does stress elevate those numbers, a tiny bit? Do I have to worry about the high pre? Never was high before.

New ACTH test to be done the week of the Fourth of July (30 days) If post is higher than it was raise dose to 15mgs. If post is about the same raise dose to 12mgs. If post is lower, than her first, keep dose at 10 mgs and retest in 90 days unless something develops. Let her colitis adjust.

This plan is only if her colitis stays as it is now because as soon as I raise the dose, it most likely will flare again.

Or I keep her as she is for another 30 days and see where her colitis is.

Thoughts?

Love ya,
Addy

Dear Addy
Hope things are getting better for Zoe. Sounds like it. I have a waiver from my vet about the rabies shot stating due to cushings. Also good luck on the muzzle. I used to put one on Apollo for barking a lot in our store. It didn't bother him. But the little rascal figured a way to bark with it on. :D
Will post on my thread. Maybe we need to point out the little miracles besides the set backs.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

Thank you Sonja, I think the muzzle is the way to go. I have to figure out what I want to do after her next stim. I need to check in with the IMS today.

Not sure about raising her dose after 30 days. I am thinking if her cortisol is higher than it was after her 10 day stim (11.2) I may increase her to 15mgs.

Do you think that is too big of an increase?

I did not give her pepcid today. Want to see how she is again without it.

Love,
Addy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by addy

New ACTH test to be done the week of the Fourth of July (30 days) If post is higher than it was raise dose to 15mgs. If post is about the same raise dose to 12mgs. If post is lower, than her first, keep dose at 10 mgs and retest in 90 days unless something develops. Let her colitis adjust.

This plan is only if her colitis stays as it is now because as soon as I raise the dose, it most likely will flare again.

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Hi Addy,

IMO, this is an excellent plan. ;):)