new from europe (arthritis and vetoryl?) - Ian, Flynn and Enya have passed

Dogs with Cushings are self-medicating as cortisol is a natural anti-inflammatory. Once the cortisol is brought down to a more healthy range, frequently, things like arthritis can be unmasked or become worse. It may be that Flynn may do better to let his cortisol run slightly higher to help with his arthritis. A lot of members have dealt with this issue, if you can tell us what meds you tried, someone may be able to offer something new.

Debbie

he got painkillers: NSAIDS like norocarp/carprodyl [europe] but they do not help enough.

Just wanted to tell you that I have joined your new thread into your original thread, along with a title addition that will reflect your new question. This way, people will know what you are wondering about in terms of the arthritis, and also be able to read about the complete medical history for Flynn and Ian with all the information here in one place. :)

Marianne

I just wanted to pop in and tell you my experience with nsaid's and such

My boy started with cartrophen needles a series of them. They weren't too expensive, but it didn't help much at all.

Then he was diagnosed with cushings, (that's a very long story) and the jury is still out on that, so I'm not treating him at all for cushings.

I then got laser therapy for him, and he was taking Metacam, however the Metacam made him vomit every so often and he constantly would eat grass. I don't know if the laser therapy worked or not either.

Then I went to Tramadol, which has no anti-inflammatory in it and I really don't know if that helped him at all, but I figured it was better then nothing.

Knowing he needed an anti-inflammatory, my new vet suggested Previcox. I did a trial period of it just over the last few weeks. It is an anti-inflammatory and pain killer. He's doing wonderful on it so far, no stomach upsets, and he's eating, pooping normally, so I ordered another months worth. Originally I just had over a week of pills then tried a couple of weeks, now we are on it for the long run. It's not cheap - here in Canada 20 pills cost $58.00 but he takes 3/4 of a pill once daily. He's just over 60 lbs, so I'm sure it's adjusted by their weight. I might add also that he has hydrotherapy once a week in a warm salt water pool, which I'm fortunate to have available in this small town, and I think it's done wonders for him. He can still climb a full flight of stairs without too much effort and he's over 14 years old.

Hope some of this info help you.

NSAIDS are not recommended for cush pups because they are so very hard on the liver which is already under great stress with the cortisol. So I would talk to the vet about something for pain other than NSAIDS. It is difficult to find something that can help and not cause more problems but there are other options to try - like some of the things Patti mentioned. Also look into Adequan, Dasuquin, and Cosequin.

i went to the vet today. he got a little bit of fever. his wrist was inflamed and way bigger than normal. he is now on antibiotics for ten days. if it is not improving within 2 days [he does not use this leg at all for now] i will put him asleep. this is not worth him. after all , a bordercollie needs to be able to walk several times a day. even if he is retired from work now. saturday we went to the forest and he walked for an hour, sundaymorning he could not walk at all. those arthritis attacks come on so fast with him. 2 months ago he had his last one and after a.b. for 10 days, he was fine again. hopefully this time too.

I am so sorry this is happening. Could you instead ask your vet about Adequan shots. They helped my Tipper really a lot, they are not that expensive. My vet charged 20.00. It really will make a difference and you could keep your baby this way, and he would not be in pain. It is terrible all of the things happening to all our babies. Stay safe and warm. Blessings
Patti

Oh, me....I am praying the leg will heal and he is able to use again very soon so you aren't faced with "the decision" just yet.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

i'm glad you all understand so well what i and all the other owners are going through. it feels good to be able to talk on this forum about our dogs. and about the tips about the cushing treatment. i hope the a.b. will do their work with flynn. besides the arthritis and the cushing, he still is in a pretty good shape. no more vetoryl for him, so we will see how long he will last. he is a tough one.

Oh so sorry that he is having so much problems with the leg pain. :( To go from walking one day to not being able to use it the next makes me think, perhaps he over did it on the one day. So maybe just no long walks, short walks for him.

Hoping he recovers.
Sharlene and molly muffin

yes, he should not take another walk for an hour at once anymore, but tell that to a bordercollie............[i will try though] they want to "'work"'

answer from diamondback:
We could compound 120 Trilostane 15mg capsules for US$63.00. Shipping to the Netherlands via FedEx International Priority would cost US$60.00 and typically takes 2 business days. Dutch customs will not allow the importation of an individual prescription, so we will need your veterinarian to fax or email us a prescription for office administration. You should also check with your Ministry of Health to see if there is any other paperwork that is necessary. As I said previously, EU countries are difficult to work with.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thank you for your inquiry.

Michael Blaire

the trilostane is indeed much cheaper at diamondbacks , but shipping to europe makes it very expensive. that is a pity.
so far i managed to buy vetoryl from a sort of dutch ebay. people sell their vetoryl after their dog has died. i have bought 2 boxes of vetoryl for about 1/3 of the normal price. [and they arrived today]

and yes-after some treatening- i got the capsules i ordered via a forum 2 weeks ago and never arrived till today. they say the mailcompany is to blame for that???????

I am so glad you got your Vetoryl. Are you sure it is the real stuff and not tampered with? I feel so bad that this is so expensive and you need it for two dogs. It is not fair that some people cannot afford to treat their dogs because this Vetoryl is so expensive. These drug companies are making a fortune off of our misery. I pray that your babies leg gets better. Do you think a wrap would help it? Maybe during the day wrap it to make it stronger? Hope you can work. It out. Blessings
Patti

the box and the blisters look original, so i hope they are the real stuff. flynn is off the vetoryl due to his severe arthritis attack from sunday. he had that twice since using vetoryl. i don't think i will put him back on it.
too much risk with his arthritis.
how is tipper feeling?

She is blown up like a balloon from the fluids they gave her. I have had very little sleep in the last three nites, and I have a feeling with all this fluid we will be going out all nite . She is napping now, and was very upset that I took her to the vets yet again. We'll see what tomorrow brings! Blessings
Patti

ok, i hope you 2 sleep well tonight. i'm going to bed now too, after walking the dogs for the last time.

Up again last nite as the vet gave Tipper so much fluid that she peed all nite long. I got a lot of research done on some of Tipper's issues, if you read my post you will se what I mean. I hope I can get this stuff straightened out for her sake and mine. I hope you baby is able to get up and use that leg today. I guess you will have to forgo the Vetoryl for now, maybe a smaller dose?? Just to control it ?? Blessings
Patti

ok, i will go to tippers thread now to read about your research. flynn's leg is not any better yet... he was already on a very low dose, but he is too sensitive because of the arthritis.
i hope the 2 of you will finally getting a good night sleep.

flynn is using his front leg a little bit today. glad he has still enough strength in his hindlegs to walk on 3 feet. he wants to play ball again....
ian is -4 weeks after his collaps-[i thought he was dying at that moment] and about 3 weeks on vetoryl his bouncy puppy self again. he has more energy than before the collaps. no more tremors so far. no more peeing inside.....

I am so glad he is using his leg a little. Do you think heat on it may ease the pain like a hot water bottle? I hope he can start to get around and maybe get it used to bearing his weight again. I can't believe what they want to ship something to you, My God! Blessings
Patti

hello patti, he does not want to be touched there , because of the sore wrist, so i won't. maybe later on when it isn't as painful anymore. his wrist is much bigger because of the inflammation and very stiff.
yes it will cost 60 dollars to ship a lightweight envelope with pills to europe. it sounds ridiculous. i read that inside the usa it only costs 8 dollars. cushing dogs are "'an expensive hobby"'
hope you and tipper have a quiet night.....

flynn is using his leg a little bit more when walking. if he wants to go any faster he walks on 3 legs. it slowly improves.
are there more dogs on this forum with an arthritis outburst because of using vetoryl.
before using it, he was a retired working dog, but moved pretty well.

Yes we've had a lot of dogs that have arthritis issues when on vetroyl. The arthritis was there, and the cortisol at higher levels covered it up, when the cortisol drops, any arthritic problems show themselves.
An xray if there is any question will show the arthritis usually. I know that my molly has some already and will have more as she gets older and her cortisol will always need to be a little bit higher for that reason.
She isn't on vetroyl yet as we haven't gotten any clear answers in the past few years. We just monitor her. If she ever displays the typical cushings symptoms though, it will be a fine line to walk as to how much to give her.
Others have gone through the same things. Working dogs, often have arthritis as they get older. It's hard on the joints.

I'm glad to hear that Flynn is using the leg a bit more though, that is a good sign.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

thank you sharlene for the answer. hopfully your molly does not need vetoryl at all. when she reacts as my flynn, that will be bad for her. it went downhill so fast, it scared me. yes, the arthritis was there before, but it did not show then. he has to be taken off the vetoryl, because of this. the painkillers are not good for his liver, but he needs them very much right now. he is now on forthyron [2x200mg] again for his thyroid problem. he still has lots of energy and his wrist is thinner now. i have to wait and see how this will work out.

It is often, day by day and you just gauge how they are doing. Perhaps a very low dosage of vetroyl would work? It's a fine balance that you need to find.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

he was only on 2 mg/kg. and it did not do much. i will see first how this will work out with this arthritis attack. i'm afraid to use the vetoryl on him ever again. he did better without it.
my other dog is doing very well on such a low dose. hugh difference in just 4 weeks time.
like you said, every dog is different and balancing and patience [baby steps] are the right words.

Oh no I was thinking perhaps a much lower dose, but I don't know if that would help with the other symptoms and allow the arthritis to still be in control.
For instance, my molly weighs 19 lbs, and the specialist talked about only doing 5mg, while my vet spoke of 30mg.
For now nothing, but we'll see what happens going forward. I'm more concerned that for molly it might be liver rather than cushings. No way to know yet and all we can do is keep an eye on things.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

flynn is walking a lot better today. hope it will progress this way.
so, your molly's condition is a riddle to everyone? it indeed sounds like liverproblems. is she feeling fine? i'm afraid to put flynn on vetoryl again. maybe a very low dose like you said? first he has to get over his arthritis attack before i change anything. it is nice we can help each other here on this forum with advice and tips.

oh yay, glad Flynn is walking better today. yes, I'd be scared too about going back on vetroyl.

Yep, Molly feels and acts fine. It would a 100 percent better if we didn't know there was something going on with her. Just monitor is all we can do.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

yes, he is doing better, but he is on ab and lots of painkillers. good to hear that molly is feeling fine despite of her testresults showing there is something going on. i am going to read her topic tonight. cushing has so many faces......

We've been told cushings first in 2011, then in 2012, her ACTH says yes, her ultrasound says yes possibly, her LDDS says no and she has no cushings specific symptoms, so we haven't pursued any cushings meds for her. We are monitoring liver values basically at this point, which have gone up a bit on last test.

I was suppose to take her in tomorrow for a recheck of her ear infectiion, but right now the roads are a sheet of ice, sidewalks too. At one point walking home from a dinner with friends tonight, I stopped, and started to slide backwards. No more stopping after that . I was holding on to hubs arm the entire time too. Gads, that wasn't fun. I opted to take molly out to the back where it was just slushy snow. She'd never be able to walk on that ice. We'd both be down on the ground and neither of us is a spring as we use to be.

We talk a lot of giggles on molly's thread . It's for now, more of a feel good thread I think until I have moments of panic. I also document her test results there and anything going on with her. It helps me to know whats what and when.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

Sorry to hear that your boy is on so many painkillers, but for right now rest is the best thing and being pain free probably makes him feel better for the moment. Maybe if he can rest up for a while then his wrist will get tolerable for him. Do you decorate and celebrate Christmas? Have a good weekend with your babies. Blessings
Patti

hi patti, flynn is not painfree i think, but more painkillers won't help. he is on the max dose now. the inflammation of his arhrtritis is still there. he is halfway his ab, so we still have to be patient, but it still does not look very well.
i have also had way too many deaths in the family. my mom died young of a very agressive form of breast cancer and my dad got kahlers disease and died too. they lived a very healthy life so why they got cancer no idea?
i only hang my christmascards on the wall/door. i have an aunt who i'm going to with christmas it is a sort of tradition. she is alone too. the dogs are welcome too! hope you and your animals have some quiet days too and tippers leg will be fine.

Tipper is a tad better today, but she kept me up all nite making sure she did not jump off the bed. I just want Christmas for Tipper and I to go quietly by. Not a good holiday for me. I hope your baby get some rest and improves, it is so hard when they get old and have problems to help them. Tipper gets naughty if something hurts her and you touch it look out, she will nip you. Try to have the best day you can with your aunt. Blessings
Patti

flynn's leg has not improved any further , so i don't think it will. he feels fine, but he can't run , just walk and hop on 3 legs.
hope tipper's leg got better and you get a good night rest. and merry christmas.

Give it some Time. It might get better. Sometimes healing a bad leg can take months even.

Merry Christmas
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

he is frustrated because he can't move the way he wants to. he is a bordercollie after all. his wrist is already deformed because of the arthritis. it went downhill so fast. wednesday is the last day of his ab and he is still on a huge dose of painkillers. he is not a patient dog. i will give him some time, but he is not happy now.

I am so sorry this wrist is not getting better. Border collies are so beautiful and smart, I know it is probably killing him to not be running around. Rest and love seems to be all you can do for now. We were having spring temperatures here also, very strange for winter weather. Now today it is to go into the teens. I hope somehow your baby gets a miracle and his wrist is healed. God Bless you all.
Patti

thank you patti, for all the good wishes. flynn is not doing better today. i went to the vet for other painkillers, maybe they will work any better. it is still very warm for the time of the year. lots of wind and rain tonight. only p and p rounds tonight for the dogs.